News 2021 Theme Index

[lazyboy97o]

That I completely agree with, but so far that growth hasn’t hurt Disney at all, they’ve perhaps even benefited from it.

Whether that holds true with all Chapek and Co’s horrible changes remains to be seen but so far attendance has grown at all the parks, including Disney (pre-Covid).

Tourism over the past decade grew at astonishing rates. Podunk towns and tiny villages saw record tourism.

Just at the basic “Disney is a business level” while it’s true there are scenarios where you can make more money from fewer customers spending more, more customers spending more is even more money. Even after it opened and was a huge success, and remained a success, Iger couldn’t understand why Disney wasted money on Expedition Everest. He didn’t see a future in the parks which is why he tried to offload them. Just imagine how much more money Disney could have made if they actually sought to take advantage of the booming interest in tourism and themed entertainment.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Oh, I agree. But couldn't Disney just say the numbers are inaccurate? After all, the theme park index is a guess at best. Who would Wall Street believe more?

Disney does indirectly pay for the estimate.

 

[JoeCamel]

I have an answer for you. I stayed at Universal deluxe hotel back in late August and I saw something. When guests were checking out, they guests had Disney merchandise. Those people get merchandise from Disney store shops, Disney Springs, or the theme parks. I don't know where those people went, but going to WDW isn't out of the answer for those guests due to it making sense for people want to go different theme parks in the Orlando area.

I can't answer answer how long this has happened since late August was my first time to Universal. I don't know if the same thing has happen with other Universal hotels. The thing is when Epic Universe opens guests will have to give up a vacation date if they want to go to Epic Universe. What I mean by give up a day is not the locals, but the people outside of Florida. People are limited in how many days of vacation they have in a year in the United States.

What I know Is Universal Studios Florida has an attraction that is suppose to open sometime next year and that is enough time to work on USF or IOA more due to how fast Universal completes lands.

It is common for people to stay at Universal deluxe hotels for the express pass, lower rates/larger rooms/better amenities than staying in "the bubble" so they do have a fuller experience. Many people think a trip to Orlando means going to the big three parks plus the outlets so they don't spend two weeks in the same spot.

 

[el_super]

I don't know about that. I do wonder if a lot of it has do with the amount of Disney fans that decided to give Universal a chance. This past I have seen more posts from Disney loyalists asking how to plan a Universal trip.

It could be, but it's also just as likely related to any number of other factors that the report is absolutely useless in presenting.

Missed vacations in 2020 meant that people may have had funds to make two trips in 2021. That doesn't discount the possibility that tourists were making trips to both Disney and Universal.

Overall attendance declines at Disney could be attributed to lack of discounted admissions (APs/Main Entrance Passes/Comp Tickets) and even to restrictions on Park Hoppers. None of that though would really indicate a shift in desire to visit Disney over Universal, just that from a practical standpoint higher attendance wasn't possible.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh, I agree. But couldn't Disney just say the numbers are inaccurate? After all, the theme park index is a guess at best. Who would Wall Street believe more?

Disney would never acknowledge the specific numbers under that circumstance

And nobody would believe them…except Adults in princess dresses and matching ears

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is common for people to stay at Universal deluxe hotels for the express pass, lower rates/larger rooms/better amenities than staying in "the bubble" so they do have a fuller experience. Many people think a trip to Orlando means going to the big three parks plus the outlets so they don't spend two weeks in the same spot.

Correct

UOR is still not a “week long destination” that wdw is…many if not most of their out of town travelers do both and will for the time being.

In a way…that makes this claim more damning of Disney. After a year+ of limited to no travel…they couldn’t out draw?

It does not - however - signal the end of wdw’s Reign or impending equal share.

It means they are losing ground…which they have since Comcast took over and returned JK Rowling’s calls

 

[Jrb1979]

One thing I find fascinating is Knotts being in the top 11 attended parks. I get that being open year round makes a difference. They have a higher attendance then some of the other major California parks. I only find it fascinating cause of how much it gets dismissed compared to Universal and Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One thing I find fascinating is Knotts being in the top 11 attended parks. I get that being open year round makes a difference. They have a higher attendance then some of the other major California parks. I only find it fascinating cause of how much it gets dismissed compared to Universal and Disney.

I think there’s an easy reason there: Disneyland was closed for a big chunk and knotts filled that void down the street. They’re a brisk walk apart

Plus Disney crapped on its “loser” aps. Some got fed up…for sure

 

[Jrb1979]

I think there’s an easy reason there: Disneyland was closed for a big chunk and knotts filled that void down the street. They’re a brisk walk apart

Plus Disney crapped on its “loser” aps. Some got fed up…for sure

They have always had high attendance. TBH there Halloween event is much better then Oogie Boogie.

 

[el_super]

It means they are losing ground…which they have since Comcast took over and returned JK Rowling’s calls

Losing ground how? Their attendance went up every year until they said they needed to stop it. You don't raise prices, remove discounts and add reservations from a place of desperation. Disney still has all the power here.

One thing I find fascinating is Knotts being in the top 11 attended parks.

Knott's is having a rather difficult time with their new found success though. They had to implement that chaperone policy to tame their runaway attendance, and then U-turn on that when they cut too deep into their core demographic.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Losing ground how? Their attendance went up every year until they said they needed to stop it. You don't raise prices, remove discounts and add reservations from a place of desperation. Disney still has all the power here.

You absolutely do do those things out of desperation, if you’re frantic to increase income when attendance hasn’t increased enough or you’re trying to justify a decades-long approach to the industry that has cost billions and is based on demonstrably untrue premises or you are trying to cover massive losses in other parts of your massive corporation. Its milking the one dependable part of your company rather then growing it naturally at the risk of permanently alienating consumers.

 

[danlb_2000]

You New Yorkers are so bad with maps

Moorestown NJ

We are practically neighbors.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

One thing I find fascinating is Knotts being in the top 11 attended parks. I get that being open year round makes a difference. They have a higher attendance then some of the other major California parks. I only find it fascinating cause of how much it gets dismissed compared to Universal and Disney.

It's so well deserved too. They really turned the park around over the last decade.

 

[MrPromey]

...

And before someone comes in with the "Disney's primary goal is to reward the stockholders" line, there was a time where the company realized keeping its customers happy was extremely important and they still somehow managed to reward the stockholders at the same time.

Funny how that works?

Yeah, at that time, they actually were rewarding stockholders, both with higher stock values and dividends - I remember the checks I used to get.

 

[fgmnt]

I think there’s an easy reason there: Disneyland was closed for a big chunk and knotts filled that void down the street. They’re a brisk walk apart

Plus Disney crapped on its “loser” aps. Some got fed up…for sure

It's mattered more in 2022 than 21 but you simply cannot buy and easily use an AP at WDW like you can at UO.

For some reason, I personally find it easier to spend time doing nothing at WDW than UO, but hey, you can buy the APs there at half the cost, don't get jerked around on actually using it, and have a really nice suite of tangible benefits.

As an example, if you buy the highest tier of a UOAP, you get Universal Express after 4pm. What would be the Disney equivalent to such a benefit? Can you imagine this company so much as giving you a Genie+ reservation you can book for a use after 4pm? Absolutely not.

Time will tell if Burbank would take this seriously, if they retake the crown in 2022 anyway, and/or if they care to act on this news at all, but it is a very interesting development.

 

[MrPromey]

Technically they still are right? Reservation system exsisting means they are no?

I think the current implementation is more about pushing people to go to what would not have otherwise been their first choice more so than capping in the way most of us are thinking of it.

Kind of how they used FP+.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

One thing I always wonder when I hear about Disney being dethroned is if it‘s even possible for any of the other parks to accommodate as many guests as MK and/or DL?

Could EP, AK, HS, USF, IOA, DCA, etc even physically accommodate 20 million guests a year? They are are all around 9-12 million now but they appear near capacity already, could any of them realistically add 8 million more guests a year purely from a logistics standpoint?

 

[matt9112]

One thing I always wonder when I hear about Disney being dethroned is if it‘s even possible for any of the other parks to accommodate as many guests as MK and/or DL?

Could EP, AK, HS, USF, IOA, DCA, etc even physically accommodate 20 million guests a year? They are are all around 9-12 million now but they appear near capacity already, could any of them realistically add 8 million more guests a year purely from a logistics standpoint?

I imagine Epcot at least. We know it’s the largest park in terms of capacity so in theory it could fit more people per year than MK.

 

[peter11435]

Ok.
Now what would happen if all 4 were “capped” and 1,000 people called in to GR and wanted reservations?

The day is coming

A question that to this point hasn’t required an answer.

In 2020 and most of 2021 they would have been turned away

 

[peter11435]

And how often did the parks hit that pre-pandemic capacity? It’s kind of a meaningless number.

Yes. But it’s also important to realize that for much of the post pandemic period, park attendance was capped at a number below pre-Covid daily averages.