2016 Lawsuits against Disney

[purplepansy]

I dont understand it either other than Disney is saying that the assessed values are higher than market value. There's about ten cases.

It's for property tax. In the most simplistic terms, to calculate property tax, the local assessor for a jurisdiction calculates the assessed value of a particular parcel of land. That assessed value is then multiplied by a particular tax rate, which then gives the tax amount due. If you feel that your assessment is too high, which results in higher tax, you can appeal. That's what would be occurring here. I just recently appealed mine and saved about $500. I'm sure Disney's appeal will be a bit more lucrative.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It's for property tax. In the most simplistic terms, to calculate property tax, the local assessor for a jurisdiction calculates the assessed value of a particular parcel of land. That assessed value is then multiplied by a particular tax rate, which then gives the tax amount due. If you feel that your assessment is too high, which results in higher tax, you can appeal. That's what would be occurring here. I just recently appealed mine and saved about $500. I'm sure Disney's appeal will be a bit more lucrative.

Would that include improvements on the property? Buildings, attractions, infrastructure…?

Because an assessed value of $414 million for the Magic Kingdom seems a tad low?

 

[mf1972]

I should sue myself for negligence after reading some of these. ridiculous.

 

[purplepansy]

Would that include improvements on the property? Buildings, attractions, infrastructure…?

Because an assessed value of $414 million for the Magic Kingdom seems a tad low?

I'm not all that familiar with Florida property tax laws, especially for commercial property, but yes typically it would include the value of all improvements. It's kind of funny that they blanked out the parcel numbers and account numbers in the court filings, because those are public information and fairly easy to find. For example, if you want to see how they value every improvement in Magic Kingdom (show buildings, bridges, parking spaces, decorative walls), look up parcel number 11-24-27-0000-00-001 at the Orange County property appraiser website https://www.ocpafl.org/searches/parcelsearch.aspx. You can also view their last 10 years of tax bills. They paid $5.7 million on $414 million assessed value. Another interesting search at the Orange County property appraiser website is to search by property type, then choose commercial, then choose tourist attraction. You can see all of the various Disney World properties, Universal and Sea World.

 

[SorcererMC]

I'm not all that familiar with Florida property tax laws, especially for commercial property, but yes typically it would include the value of all improvements. It's kind of funny that they blanked out the parcel numbers and account numbers in the court filings, because those are public information and fairly easy to find. For example, if you want to see how they value every improvement in Magic Kingdom (show buildings, bridges, parking spaces, decorative walls), look up parcel number 11-24-27-0000-00-001 at the Orange County property appraiser website https://www.ocpafl.org/searches/parcelsearch.aspx. You can also view their last 10 years of tax bills. They paid $5.7 million on $414 million assessed value. Another interesting search at the Orange County property appraiser website is to search by property type, then choose commercial, then choose tourist attraction. You can see all of the various Disney World properties, Universal and Sea World.

Do you or anyone else know - Would this assessment impact what they are allowed to list on their asset valuations on their financial balance sheets?

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm not all that familiar with Florida property tax laws, especially for commercial property, but yes typically it would include the value of all improvements. It's kind of funny that they blanked out the parcel numbers and account numbers in the court filings, because those are public information and fairly easy to find. For example, if you want to see how they value every improvement in Magic Kingdom (show buildings, bridges, parking spaces, decorative walls), look up parcel number 11-24-27-0000-00-001 at the Orange County property appraiser website https://www.ocpafl.org/searches/parcelsearch.aspx. You can also view their last 10 years of tax bills. They paid $5.7 million on $414 million assessed value. Another interesting search at the Orange County property appraiser website is to search by property type, then choose commercial, then choose tourist attraction. You can see all of the various Disney World properties, Universal and Sea World.

Side note: This is why public records are fantastic.

 

[Disone]

Would that include improvements on the property? Buildings, attractions, infrastructure…?

Because an assessed value of $414 million for the Magic Kingdom seems a tad low?

A tad????? Totally agreed 414 seems low! When one e ticket costs 100 million plus.... And wasn't NFLand in the ball park of 500 to 600 million?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Would that include improvements on the property? Buildings, attractions, infrastructure…?

Because an assessed value of $414 million for the Magic Kingdom seems a tad low?

Usually property assessments include improvements and that also means buildings permanently part of the property. I would think that there is a lot of grey area with a theme park. But, technically, if you drive footings 100 plus feet into the ground, it is pretty much considered a permanent addition. I wonder who is doing the assessing. I don't remember many states that have there own assessing agencies. They usually rely on local assessments to base any state tax. Which, in this case, would bring Reedy Creek into the picture.

Considering the infrastructure improvements currently in progress, Reedy Creek would have an interest in more tax money from parks and resorts to pay for all that. I guess it depends on which arm of Disney is doing the suing. However, they may very well be suing themselves, technically, because each department needs to justify individual expense, so any additional taxation will affect their bottom line and make them get some nasty memo's from California.

 

[Cesar R M]

Finally updated this one. Lots of slip and falls. Two cases from January were dismissed.

Of interest? Disney is suing the property assessor. If you look in 2016-CA-005291-O, you'll find the just and assessed property values for all the theme parks. Disney is suing over these values, saying they exceed the market value.

Epcot was assessed at $405M, MK at $414M, DHS at $316M and DAK at $259M.

how the hell they could be assessed that low?
or is it only "land" value?
these things are cash cows.

 

[Cesar R M]

Property values are somewhat based on the potential value if sold as a business venture. However, looking at those numbers, it would seem that, if anything, they are low. If, for some reason, they had to close down operations, and all they had left to liquidate was the land it sat on, then it is way over valued. It once again becomes a swamp and is probably not worth much more then what Walt paid for it. So, I would guess that those numbers represent a compromised balance.

Maybe the value is the buildings, properties sans Disney's IP?

 

[Goofyernmost]

how the hell they could be assessed that low?
or is it only "land" value?
these things are cash cows.

It depends on the focus of the assessment. If you are trying to establish the worth of a company in the event of a sale, then income or potential income is taken into consideration. If you are basing it strictly on liquidation value, then those number are actually very high. If you weren't going to use the land to operate a theme park, what use would you have for the inner workings of Pirates, for example, and the physical building it is housed in. The value could drop like a rock tomorrow if the economy tanks.

 

[21stamps]

It's for property tax. In the most simplistic terms, to calculate property tax, the local assessor for a jurisdiction calculates the assessed value of a particular parcel of land. That assessed value is then multiplied by a particular tax rate, which then gives the tax amount due. If you feel that your assessment is too high, which results in higher tax, you can appeal. That's what would be occurring here. I just recently appealed mine and saved about $500. I'm sure Disney's appeal will be a bit more lucrative.

We did the same in 2008. We purchased the house behind ours when it went for sale. Tore it down, built a small guest house, with a barbecue area underneath, had our pool completely redone to extend the proper length in the back yard, and obviously redid the landscaping.
So fast forward to property tax assessment - pretty much valued the old land and the new as if that was still a single family property, instead of part of our property- so more than doubled our taxes. This is on the Island of Palm Beach- in 2008!!! No way could we sell for what our property was appraised at , if we would have wanted to.

We also won.. Thankfully.

 

[The Mom]

I wonder what the assessment was for 2014? That would also be an issue - did the county raise it a lot, compared to past years. After all, I keep reading about how WDW has not been making any improvements recently - some people make it sound as if the whole place is falling apart.

 

[SorcererMC]

Usually property assessments include improvements and that also means buildings permanently part of the property. I would think that there is a lot of grey area with a theme park. But, technically, if you drive footings 100 plus feet into the ground, it is pretty much considered a permanent addition. I wonder who is doing the assessing. I don't remember many states that have there own assessing agencies. They usually rely on local assessments to base any state tax. Which, in this case, would bring Reedy Creek into the picture.

Considering the infrastructure improvements currently in progress, Reedy Creek would have an interest in more tax money from parks and resorts to pay for all that. I guess it depends on which arm of Disney is doing the suing. However, they may very well be suing themselves, technically, because each department needs to justify individual expense, so any additional taxation will affect their bottom line and make them get some nasty memo's from California.

I won't list names (as you can look those up), but the Property Appraiser, Tax Collector, Reedy Creek Improvement District, and FL Dept of Revenue are listed as the defendants.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I won't list names (as you can look those up), but the Property Appraiser, Tax Collector, Reedy Creek Improvement District, and FL Dept of Revenue are listed as the defendants.

With their own creation, Reedy Creek, listed as a defendant that pretty much backs up what I said earlier.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I wonder what the assessment was for 2014? That would also be an issue - did the county raise it a lot, compared to past years. After all, I keep reading about how WDW has not been making any improvements recently - some people make it sound as if the whole place is falling apart.

I think its more that Disney is taking their sweet time on making Capital Improvements to the Florida property. WDW has had to pay the price for opening Paris, Hong Kong, and now Shanghai. Its just frustrations.

 

[SorcererMC]

With their own creation, Reedy Creek, listed as a defendant that pretty much backs up what I said earlier.

To add on to that, it looks like the state and local property taxes are calculated using the higher 'just value', while Gen County, Bay Lake, Library, and SFWM (whatever that is) is calculated using the 'assessed value'.
MK has the most discrepancy between the two values - 'Just Value' is ~$451 mln, and 'Assessed value' of $405 mln, so they could have been looking at a substantial increase in taxes. (provided I'm reading this correctly).

 

[Goofyernmost]

If Disney has gotten to the point where they will sue themselves because of how they have set up their profit centers, it is sad indeed. Reedy Creek has always been an obvious partner even though legally they must be separate. I know of very few request that WDW has made that Reedy Creek hasn't gone along with. It appears that management doesn't want to pay, even indirectly, for infrastructures that are needed to maintain WDW properly. There is nothing stopping RC from putting roadblocks up on future projects if they want too. Perhaps it isn't in Disney's overall best interest to make a big fuss about this.

 

[networkpro]

A tad????? Totally agreed 414 seems low! When one e ticket costs 100 million plus.... And wasn't NFLand in the ball park of 500 to 600 million?

Just because it cost X to build doesn't mean its worth X for fair market value. How much is that attraction worth on the resale market given that you'd have to dissemble the parts you can and transport them.

 

[RagingBullFan]

I wonder what the assessment was for 2014? That would also be an issue - did the county raise it a lot, compared to past years. After all, I keep reading about how WDW has not been making any improvements recently - some people make it sound as if the whole place is falling apart.

Looking at the 2014 tax bill, this appears to be exactly the issue... For the 1300 Avenue of the Stars property (Epcot) the 2014 assessment was $367,689,653 for a total tax bill of $5,421,804.54

For 2015 it is now assessed at $451,092,171 with a tax bill of $6,214,178.19

That is quite a jump in assessment!