FutureCEO
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't classify countries movies as any attraction
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2015: The year of the EPCOT makeover?
- Thread starter PeterAlt
- Start date
I wouldn't classify countries movies as any attraction
Is there any industry left on the face of this planet that has not changed radically within the last decade or so? Why is Disney expected to remain the same when everything else in the world has changed?
I'm sorry but it is very unrealistic to hold on to these kinds of feelings and ideals, especially toward a corporation whose platform has always revolved around some degree of greed. Venting is cool, but that should be the end of it.
I have never thought of "Finding Nemo" as the worst thing that ever happened to Epcot". I just want the monorail to work properly, lol. It's been seven long years since Nemo opened and decades since the other attractions have closed. In spite of these atrocities, Epcot still stands strong with record attendance and profit each year. Not to mention, the same clam mobiles were used in The Little Mermaid ride. I can't recall any outrage, with the exception of Ariel's hair.
Disneyland Paris needed an infusion of something, anything badly -- all of the other parks outperformed DLP.
Disney's corporate culture and direction has evolved dramatically over the past decade -- post Eisner, but certainly not overnight. I observed those changes very, very early on -- brand new DVC at Bay Lake Tower, The Grand Floridan, The Poly and now the Wilderness Lodge, meanwhile the monorail that can barely run and it continually plagued with problems. Disney blatantly refuses to effectively address the ongoing issues concerning the iconic monorail, but I'm somehow supposed to expect all of these state of the art rides? LOL /rant
I am excited for Avatarland, only because of James Cameron teaming with the Imagineers. So, I'm betting that Disney's knows that any kind of cheapness is not going to fly over well with this guy.
I'm not thrilled with the prospect of Frozen in Norway, as I would have liked to see a brand new, state of the art attraction -- but all things considered, I'm not outraged by it either. Maelstrom was not a popular attraction and Epcot is the least favorite of my parks to be honest -- I love it but not like that. I think the Frozen attraction is will very popular for at least the next decade or three and I'm really looking forward to it.
I think Disney expected boomers to have eventually outgrown the parks by now and funnel into the cruise and timeshare markets. But, that's a whole other topic. Disney is watching the Millennial's very closely -- researchers have already identified this group as confident, self-expressive, liberal, upbeat and open to change. Change and uncertainty are pretty much ingrained today's emerging youth.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/02/24/millennials-confident-connected-open-to-change/
Quiz: How Millennial Are You? Just in case, anyone was wondering, lol.
http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/
It's all about change. Darwin said it best, “It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”
I know this is about theme parks but the same principles can be applied to this or any matter. I am really curious as to how long people intend to willingly subject themselves to disappointment after disappointment. Sorry for the long tangent but eventually something has to give. Right? At least, I hope.
What is it going to take for some of you (general you) to be happy. In short, the answer to that lies deep down within -- it is personal and it is quite subjective and there is nothing Disney can "build" or put forward that can please you (general you). So, there.
It's a huge mistake to embrace Disney as anything other than a company that is out to make money like most every other company. And, it is important to recognize and acknowledge when you (general you) have outgrown something or vice versa. It's akin to driving an old car for decades and then getting angry at the auto company for discontinuing your model or going out of business. I do find that it's reasonable for some Disney fans to feel overlooked or left behind -- but if that is the case, a quick attitude adjustment is essential to moving forward, otherwise you'll just be stuck in a rut.
I'm sorry but it is very unrealistic to hold on to these kinds of feelings and ideals, especially toward a corporation whose platform has always revolved around some degree of greed. Venting is cool, but that should be the end of it.
I have never thought of "Finding Nemo" as the worst thing that ever happened to Epcot". I just want the monorail to work properly, lol. It's been seven long years since Nemo opened and decades since the other attractions have closed. In spite of these atrocities, Epcot still stands strong with record attendance and profit each year. Not to mention, the same clam mobiles were used in The Little Mermaid ride. I can't recall any outrage, with the exception of Ariel's hair.
Disneyland Paris needed an infusion of something, anything badly -- all of the other parks outperformed DLP.
Disney's corporate culture and direction has evolved dramatically over the past decade -- post Eisner, but certainly not overnight. I observed those changes very, very early on -- brand new DVC at Bay Lake Tower, The Grand Floridan, The Poly and now the Wilderness Lodge, meanwhile the monorail that can barely run and it continually plagued with problems. Disney blatantly refuses to effectively address the ongoing issues concerning the iconic monorail, but I'm somehow supposed to expect all of these state of the art rides? LOL /rant
I am excited for Avatarland, only because of James Cameron teaming with the Imagineers. So, I'm betting that Disney's knows that any kind of cheapness is not going to fly over well with this guy.
I'm not thrilled with the prospect of Frozen in Norway, as I would have liked to see a brand new, state of the art attraction -- but all things considered, I'm not outraged by it either. Maelstrom was not a popular attraction and Epcot is the least favorite of my parks to be honest -- I love it but not like that. I think the Frozen attraction is will very popular for at least the next decade or three and I'm really looking forward to it.
I think Disney expected boomers to have eventually outgrown the parks by now and funnel into the cruise and timeshare markets. But, that's a whole other topic. Disney is watching the Millennial's very closely -- researchers have already identified this group as confident, self-expressive, liberal, upbeat and open to change. Change and uncertainty are pretty much ingrained today's emerging youth.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/02/24/millennials-confident-connected-open-to-change/
Quiz: How Millennial Are You? Just in case, anyone was wondering, lol.
http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/
It's all about change. Darwin said it best, “It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”
I know this is about theme parks but the same principles can be applied to this or any matter. I am really curious as to how long people intend to willingly subject themselves to disappointment after disappointment. Sorry for the long tangent but eventually something has to give. Right? At least, I hope.
What is it going to take for some of you (general you) to be happy. In short, the answer to that lies deep down within -- it is personal and it is quite subjective and there is nothing Disney can "build" or put forward that can please you (general you). So, there.
It's a huge mistake to embrace Disney as anything other than a company that is out to make money like most every other company. And, it is important to recognize and acknowledge when you (general you) have outgrown something or vice versa. It's akin to driving an old car for decades and then getting angry at the auto company for discontinuing your model or going out of business. I do find that it's reasonable for some Disney fans to feel overlooked or left behind -- but if that is the case, a quick attitude adjustment is essential to moving forward, otherwise you'll just be stuck in a rut.
Last edited:
CDavid
Well-Known Member
Not true. Record attendance was higher at Epcot in the early 1990's - with the original roster of attractions still intact - than it is today.
Darwin literally couldn't see the forest for the trees. Just sayin'...
You can't excuse or explain away the failures and shortcomings of Disney's theme parks by blaming the customer.
A compromised, diminished Walt Disney World experience has absolutely nothing to do with us as individuals. We can be a perfectly happy, well adjusted followers of The Walt Disney Company and still be able to recognize a substandard, "dumbed-down", lackluster attraction (or 'themed environment, etc.). A mediocre effort can always be objectively determined a mediocre effort regardless of our personal opinions.
Disney's production of an experience which fails to meet the company's own standards isn't a failure because long-time fans of the company are disappointed; Something is a failure simply because it is a poor effort.
It's really not fair to go back to the 90's. The events surrounding September 11th forever changed tourism as we know it -- and Animal Kingdom has had an impact on both DHS and Epcot attendance figures, as well. Maybe it's just me, but Disney seems cheaper today as a result. It just seems like more people can afford Disney now more than ever. Moving along.....
Touche' on Darwin.
Hmmm... I *think* you're preaching to the choir. I tend to agree with what you have written above. And, I fully acknowledge first hand what has been dumbed down and cut by Disney. I used to think like you way way back around 2008/2009ish -- but there came a time when I knew there was no turning back, so I adjusted my expectations accordingly. I know what to expect now and I still love WDW and look forward to my trip every year. But, according to some here, this is a crime.
Anyway, my question is what is the alternative? Is it to come here and complain and argue and blame each other -- will this somehow make Disney "change?" Or perhaps we are the ones in dire need of change. The last suggestion I got was to keep Captain EO and bring back Figment. There is nothing I can do with that, it's that hopeless.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
It should be noted, not everything Disney decides to do is a failure or a disappointment.
You don't see endless threads about the minigames (Pirates / Perry / SoTMK) because they are well done.
They fit in with the area, they are fun to do, and they were well thought out before implementation.
You DO see endless threads about EPCOT because pretty much EVERYTHING they seem to do there is a slipshod answer.
You see the same about Animal Kingdom.
Disney isn't "cheaper" than it was before in terms of experience, but the management in Florida (I can't say the same about California) has changed, and they have a different view of it than they did 20 years ago.
20 years ago I wouldn't have been able to stay at a Disney Resort and see roaches on the food court floors.
2013, I did...repeatedly.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
I, actually, used to sit through the film, and rather enjoyed it.
See, I wanted to learn about other cultures, not just be entertained for 15 mins, or 5.
Okay, fair enough and I guess I can agree with that.
But, the roach(es) thing is so vile -- out of all of my trips to Disney, I've have only seen *one* roach and it was so huge, you could like literally see his pupils. But, to be fair it was outside, lol.
Back to Epcot, after looking at the pictures -- I think I'm okay with Frozen going into Norway, it really looks like it will be a major enhancement -- it's a good fit. Future World is not horrible but it has enormous potential to be so much better. I won't deny that I have no attachment to Epcot, but I do feel kind of bad for Epcot fan boys/girls.
FutureCEO
Well-Known Member
I'm really sick of hearing about Millennials and I am one (only 33% according to the quiz).
I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Personally, Impressions de France is one of my favorite Disney attractions worldwide. It is a movie, but oh so amazing.
misterID
Well-Known Member
There's no way any old ride is coming back, but that shouldn't stop them from building something in the same spirit. Before Horizon's that plot was supposed to be a Space Pavilion with a dark ride. I have no idea about where the sponsorship is, there were rumors HP's contract was going to expire and they weren't happy with the ride's performance (popularity, or lack there of) and might not reup... it looks like they have. Anyway, turning M:S into a real SPACE pavilion, a dark ride (like Horizons inspired), an IMAX film, like a type of Kennedy/Houston Space Center type of experience would work great there and fit the theme.
At this point, Ratatouille makes more sense in WS than Frozen. And they're going to need to add something to help with those crowds. And WDW does love clones...
LOL, this is too funny. I have *never* heard the term "Millennials" or any references about them in *any* of my social circles outside of academia/research. I felt like a dork even posting this, lol. But, thanks for checking it out and taking the test -- and I agree, it's pretty cut and dry but the questions were funny. I can't tell you the last time I watched an hour of television nonstop or read a newspaper, mine was 88%. I guess I should clarify that the old Millenials are in their thirties, so I wasn't talking about them.
DarthGrady
Active Member
I'm a millennial, only three days older than EPCOT, and I am totally wistful for the park's pre 94 golden age. It was how I knew it as a kid, and I loved it way more than MK. The shoddy renovations, re-themes and mindless cartoonery are just plain insulting to the real fans. I certainly hope the OP is right that positive change is coming. I sat in the eviscerated WoL this past weekend and couldn't help but feel sad about how great the park used to be.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
The ignorance in the above paragraph prevented me from reading the rest of your diatribe. FYI, Walt Disney didn't create anything on the basis of greed. Read some credible biographies of the man (I suggest Bob Thomas' "Walt Disney: An American Original" - the gold standard of Walt Disney biographies). He thought of money as the means to an end, that end being creating new, original and innovative entertainment that would be uplifting and beneficial to everyone. That's the element that used to make the Walt Disney Company special. Unfortunately, the CEOs who have ruled the company since its founder's death have rebuilt it into the typical entertainment conglomerate, and the only homage they pay to its founder's legacy is to try to exploit it for more material gain; it certainly doesn't motivate them to emulate Walt in any way. The quickie makeover of Maelstrom to cash in quickly on the Frozen phenomenon is just the latest indication of the mindset of Robert Iger and his stooges. I was no fan of Michael Eisner, but by god he seemed to at least like Disney and tried at least a little bit to carry on its traditions. Iger could care less. Brands, franchises, merchandising - those are the apex of his focus. He's Walt's polar opposite - and while the company has prospered under his rule, it's also losing its status of quality and creativity, especially in the parks.
I intend to keep venting about the cynical, exploitative attitudes of TDO and Iger until something happens to change my mind. I hope that happens, but I'm not holding my breath.
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but this past weekend Sep 20-21. While riding Universe of Energy I noticed that the scene with ellen fighting the dinosaur in the pool with the Pterodactyl babies on the ledge is totally cut out. Ellen and the dinosaur are physically missing from the scene along with any audio of her and him. Just the Pterodactyls are still there. They are working and making noise. But, it is such an empty scene with them missing. Even though the dinosaur has stopped moving since years past, it is even worse with nothing there. They were there back on May 10th, the last time I rode it.
Here is a pic of the scene. I didn't have time to take a pic of the scene myself. Thank you Google!
Here is a pic of the scene. I didn't have time to take a pic of the scene myself. Thank you Google!
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Made a thread about it after my last ride on September 2nd when only the Elasmosaurus was missing http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/snake-like-creature-gone-from-universe-of-energy.889571/
officialtom
Well-Known Member
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, for the love of GOD, update the Canadian pavilion.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
They are... lumberjack show
DarthGrady
Active Member
HiYa Pal
Active Member
The Living Seas - Fine
The Land - New Circle of Life Film, Update Living with The Land, Remove Soarin (it'll make sense in a second) and add some type of ride to where the Soarin queue was
The Sky - rethemeing of Imagination - Soarin moves its queue to attach to this pavilion, the current imagination ride is rethemed, the movie is about clouds and storms - could really make a fun utilization of the 3D theatre and 4D effects, upstairs becomes the Sky View Lounge and Restaurant with the best views of Future World and the World Showcase
Innoventions- anything would help......including bull dozers
Universe of Energy -good refresh to bring it up to date and ad more effects
Festival Center - just embrace it and make it a thing - use some of the ride spaces to have a "Flight over ___ Wine Country" or a "Smell-0-vision tour of ______ Botanical Gardens" add a tour of some type alcohol production from growing ingredients to finished product (with a tasting room at the end, $$$ of course) a walk-though green house show casing some of the world's most unique plants. With the exception of the drink tour, the other experiences are generic enough to swap out for each festival and with a year's time between each festival to film and develop a new "experience" for each one. Adults spend the money, and the festivals are more geared towards them anyway, so why not
Mission: Space - find a way to randomize it ala Star Tours
Test Track - good
World Showcase - add next gen fun: ie. the parrot inside Mexico - have him talk to you with your name, have "personalized" window displays in the shops where your name appears in a poster or on a tag, like the book in the HM queue
Mt Fuji coaster, The London Eye (not on the water but further back in the Pavillion and set up in such a way to only allow views of World Showcase), Canandian Skiing Simulator (like a surfing simulator on a cruise ship) kiddie bob sled ride, Rat in France, Germany ride through a cuckoo clock- slight thrill running past gears and other inner workings, pop outside and wave at people in line, etc, Italian exotic car tour, ran out of ideas for China, America, and Morocco....
The Land - New Circle of Life Film, Update Living with The Land, Remove Soarin (it'll make sense in a second) and add some type of ride to where the Soarin queue was
The Sky - rethemeing of Imagination - Soarin moves its queue to attach to this pavilion, the current imagination ride is rethemed, the movie is about clouds and storms - could really make a fun utilization of the 3D theatre and 4D effects, upstairs becomes the Sky View Lounge and Restaurant with the best views of Future World and the World Showcase
Innoventions- anything would help......including bull dozers
Universe of Energy -good refresh to bring it up to date and ad more effects
Festival Center - just embrace it and make it a thing - use some of the ride spaces to have a "Flight over ___ Wine Country" or a "Smell-0-vision tour of ______ Botanical Gardens" add a tour of some type alcohol production from growing ingredients to finished product (with a tasting room at the end, $$$ of course) a walk-though green house show casing some of the world's most unique plants. With the exception of the drink tour, the other experiences are generic enough to swap out for each festival and with a year's time between each festival to film and develop a new "experience" for each one. Adults spend the money, and the festivals are more geared towards them anyway, so why not
Mission: Space - find a way to randomize it ala Star Tours
Test Track - good
World Showcase - add next gen fun: ie. the parrot inside Mexico - have him talk to you with your name, have "personalized" window displays in the shops where your name appears in a poster or on a tag, like the book in the HM queue
Mt Fuji coaster, The London Eye (not on the water but further back in the Pavillion and set up in such a way to only allow views of World Showcase), Canandian Skiing Simulator (like a surfing simulator on a cruise ship) kiddie bob sled ride, Rat in France, Germany ride through a cuckoo clock- slight thrill running past gears and other inner workings, pop outside and wave at people in line, etc, Italian exotic car tour, ran out of ideas for China, America, and Morocco....
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
The Sky - rethemeing of Imagination - Soarin moves its queue to attach to this pavilion, the current imagination ride is rethemed, the movie is about clouds and storms - could really make a fun utilization of the 3D theatre and 4D effects, upstairs becomes the Sky View Lounge and Restaurant with the best views of Future World and the World Showcase
Festival Center - just embrace it and make it a thing - use some of the ride spaces to have a "Flight over ___ Wine Country" or a "Smell-0-vision tour of ______ Botanical Gardens" add a tour of some type alcohol production from growing ingredients to finished product (with a tasting room at the end, $$$ of course) a walk-though green house show casing some of the world's most unique plants. With the exception of the drink tour, the other experiences are generic enough to swap out for each festival and with a year's time between each festival to film and develop a new "experience" for each one. Adults spend the money, and the festivals are more geared towards them anyway, so why not
I shouldn't have to explain my objection to the Imagination point, but that Festival Center description is super redundant, what with it just being a second Land pavilion.