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1986: An Imagineering Competition - HYPE THREAD
- Thread starter mickeyfan5534
- Start date
TwilightZone
Well-Known Member
No because they should have reused the building for Mission:Space. It would have been perfect and more fitting than what we ended up getting.Ok, got a genuinely "non-biased" question for you.
Does this picture below make you happy?
View attachment 507167
TwilightZone
Well-Known Member
I point to you dark rides I think are better (at least in Epcot):
Spaceship Earth (especially the Irons version, just beautiful!)
Journey into Imagination
World of Motion
If a 90s version of Horizons happened and it was done in a similar way to SSE Irons version I might love it more.
spacemt354
Chili's
Oh some of this looks familiar!
https://sywtbaiseason15.wixsite.com/universalaustralia/illumination-station
Jurassic World | universalaustralia
spacemt354
Chili's
I think the difference comes in that Horizons (when sponsored in the 80s) was a game-changer in terms of technology, capacity, and storytelling. Really the same could be said with the Universe of Energy pre-Ellen.
I rode Horizons when I was very young, so Spaceship Earth Irons version has the most impact on me out of the classic Epcot dark rides. But if Horizons got that kind of 'plussed' treatment given the infrastructure it had in place I think it would have still been heralded as the best. Finance really was its downfall.
Mickeynerd17
Well-Known Member
Ok, I give you Imagination just because it was such a unique ride chock-full of detail.
Ok, for my unpopular hot take: I really don't understand the hype for Irons SSE. Even though I rode it (probably?) a total of four times, I was two/three years old, and don't remember it at all. Watching videos of it, it's just not as good as the current one for me. Yea, the descent scenes are cool, but the theme song just isn't catchy for me. Definitely not even close to Horizons in quality.
Now, world of motion just lacks the amount of detail found in Horizons. Sure, it's a really good attraction with lots of gags and animatronics, but it's just not that high on my list.
To be perfectly honest though, I should give it more credit, but people aren't as nostalgic for it as they are for Horizons mainly because Test Track was the most successful/best replacement for an original Epcot pavilion out of them all. The original test track jump-started my love affair with the park all the way back in 2006, so it holds a special place in my heart.
Mickeynerd17
Well-Known Member
Thank God, you at least know that no attraction deserves this kind of hell. Thank you
spacemt354
Chili's
Well there's your answer
Grainy videos from 2005 don't convey the mood the attraction set. Nothing wrong with the Dench version, I enjoy it, but the finale is a waste compared to what was there before.It's also the age when you go on attractions - I was 10 or 11 going on the Irons Spaceship Earth, I have more vivid memories and nostalgia for that than I would if I went on as a 2 year old and don't remember anything about it. And further with Epcot attractions in particular - it's the time-period you go on them. If Horizons in its '83 form was built today, it would be criticized for lifeless animatronics and too many screenz. But at the time, these attractions were revolutionary in scale that you rarely see built today.
The tech and storytelling jump that people gush about today for RotR in 2019, based on my research Horizons did that in 1983 but on a scale for that time-period.
I wrote a guide for it a few years ago here
Stanza II Program Guide - EPCOT Center 'The Early Years'
Welcome to the Stanza II Program Guide for The Sorcerer's Apprentice Season 4: Homecoming Edition! This reference is designed to help you and your teammates orient yourselves to a park which exists today, but in many ways, is drastically different than what it was during its early years from...
Suchomimus
Well-Known Member
I still wish they had gave a boat ride or at the very least an expansion pad for JW. But otherwise, I really like what this resort has to offer and might offer if it is successful enough.
Suchomimus
Well-Known Member
First Look at Motiongate Dubai's Two New Coasters
www.themeparkinsider.com
TwilightZone
Well-Known Member
Plebeian Series Episode 1: Horizons (and why I'm not a big fan of it)
Before I start lemme say I love the idea and concept of Horizons, I think it's a great concept and well worth bringing back in some fashion. However, I tried and tried to love Horizons as a ride but I just can't. Sit back and relax as I go scene by scene dissecting what I do like and what I didn't and at the end you'll find a few similar Disney attractions that I think did the concept better. Keep in mind though I never got to ride this, maybe this was really a better attraction to see in person, but that doesn't stop me from judging
.Now to start off let's compare length of attractions, now I don't realllly think that the length is why I dislike it, but some can say it can be a factor for enjoyment. Length is compared via youtube videos, nothing I can really control here. I will also compare for the 80s versions of these attractions to make it more fair. Also I didn't compare Energy or Living with the Land here as I am not really sure if they fully count as a dark ride. They're kinda their own things.
Horizons - 14:53
World of Motion - 14:47
Spaceship Earth - 12:12
Journey into Imagination - 9:54
As you can see Horizons is the longest of the attractions, but only a bit more than World of Motion. Since I love World of Motion, length of the ride isn't a factor for the overall enjoyment of the ride (at least in my case and I assume most other people's cases either).
Scene 1: Looking into the past
Once again, love the concept, give a little history of past ideas of the future before showing the "real future". However the jump is so abrupt. One second you're in a futuristic station for time travel and the next....you hear two people talking about ideas of the future and then get to see the fantastical versions. It's kinda strange to me. However besides that this scene is wonderful and oozing with charm. Plus the callback to COP (which I will touch more on the overall plot and tie to COP later) is fun.
Scene 2: Progress
Probably the coolest scene of the bunch, the screen effects showing what progress people have made super cool. It manages to be relevant and realistic enough to make quite the impression.
Scene 3: The future home
This is prehaps what the entire ride should have been about. Looking into what the house of the future might be in a realistic and optimistic way. This scene stands out the most due to it's realism, however that also harms it a bit due to the house being quite 80s in decor, but it still stands out as the most plausible of all the scenes in the attraction. You can look at this house today and think "hey that actually happened" or think "hey that hover piano thing might happen". It's that well done.
Scene 4: Desert Farm
While I am not sure if the specific crops being grown is possible in a desert (many people say this scene smelt like oranges, so I assume this is an orange tree farm with some additional crops), desert farming is possible. However the equipment here makes the scene dated, it's not as realistic as the house scene. The desert home compared to the previous house is barren and kinda boring to look at even though the set itself is impressive.
Scene 6: Sea City
Did people think living underwater was gonna be a thing? I am curious cause it's just strange to me. This scene sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest, while the setting is amazing everything else in it is just strange. From understanding what a seal is saying, to not actually going into one of the sea homes, I had to wonder if this scene was added last minute or something.
Scene 7: Space
Another amazing scene, with actual space living being closer to a reality I think Disney really missed a fantastic opportunity to make the future Horizons to be about space living. Imagine kids riding a space Horizons as it gets closer and closer to reality, the optimism would have skyrocketed. Plus the soundtrack here is wonderful. The birthday scene also ties everything off wonderfully.
Scene 8: Finale
To be honest, as much as the choose the ending thing is cool, I wish it just had ended with the birthday party. The flight of the spaceship just doesn't match the chill slower pace of the ride.
Now that I dissected the scenes it's time to dissect the rest. The story seems to be a follow up to COP, not only do you got the callback to the song but it also has a parallel to the family in the attraction. As a follow up, I say it does the job both well and bad. The ride does focus on future living, but unlike carousel doesn't focus much on the technology and I feel like a little bit more focus on the tech side of things would have done it some wonders, especially as a follow up to the classic attraction. The personalities from the attraction stick, but perhaps a bit too much, the bickering of the narrators happens a bit too often, it kinda removes what likability the family of the future has. The soundtrack is great, except for the main theme, it's catchy but perhaps the weakest of the Epcot themes. It doesn't have the charm of One Little Spark or Tomorrow's Child or the catchiness of Listen to the Land, Universe of Energy, or It's fun to be Free. It's a ballad and a very 80s one at that. It sticks out from the rest, but I don't really think in a good way. Luckily it doesn't play much and in the ride it's mostly instrumental. What I think the ride fails at is simply following it's mission statement. The mission statement is bring together Epcot in a fun, educational ride showcasing the future. The problem is the ride was marketed as a different one, "come see the future". When people ride it, they expect to see a realistic future, and what you get is not that. Outside of the house, none of the scenes come off as realistic. Not only that, but due to ever changing technology and styles every scene was doomed to become dated from the moment it opened. The sets are cool and the technology used is impressive, but technology shouldn't be everything and Horizons lacks a certain charm other dark rides in Epcot had. The other rides were also optimistic but what makes them stand out is that they weren't going for realism, they were their own stories. What would make Horizons better is if it focused more on the storytelling rather than the set pieces. Imagination also focused on setpieces but the difference there is that each setpiece clearly showed it's own world and let the audience have enough time to absorb it all and marvel at the beauty. Each set piece in Horizons last very quickly and focus on too little to make it interesting, outside of the house and the space scene, which are the two best scenes in the ride.
What attractions do something similar to Horizons that are better?
I promised that at the end I will showcase some similar attractions that I find do something similar to Horizons, but with better execution.
Delta Dreamflight:
I am honestly surprised this ride doesn't get the love Horizons or any of the Epcot rides got. It is basically Tomorrowland's answer to World of Motion but does it way better. So why am I comparing this mainly to Horizons and not WOM? Because like Horizons it shows the past, present, and future of it's main concept (for Dreamflight it's flying) as well as having elaborate setpieces with screens and technology. One of the first things I notice about Dreamflight is that it has less setup than Horizons. Horizons you have to immerse yourself that your in a time travel spaceship, but it doesn't do a good job at being consistent with that setting. While in Dreamflight you're just there. While having less of a story is bad, sometimes less is more especially when tying it in with ride vehicles and what not. There's also no narration in Dreamflight, you are trusted with your senses to understand what's going on around you. While many epcot rides do have narrations, I feel like the narration in Horizons both helps and hurts it. Neither narrator is likeable do to the arguments the two have during the ride. It's more awkward than charming. Once again, sometimes less is more, visualizing the future is cooler than being told what is the future. It also does the speed up thing better, in Horizons your time machine speeds up at the end, which kinda goes against the calming vibe the ride had up to the point and while cool, isn't a better ending than the birthday party. In Dreamflight it's less abrupt and there's a bit more build up to it. However Dreamflight isn't without it's issues, it's a lot faster and there isn't a whole lot of scenes and the future scene is clearly 90s cgi. But it manages to have charm to it, a sort of mini futureworld ride.
House of Innoventions/Vision House:
If you want a good realistic look of the future, the best place in Epcot wasn't Horizons, it was this. What makes the Innoventions home stand out is since it was an exhibit, it could easily be swapped out with new technology whenever needed. Of course due to it being an corporate exhibit and not a ride, it lacks a lot of charm, but it did it's job better than Horizons ever could. However I'd argue that it did the family aspect better than Horizons, especially the Disneyland version where it had a story with a family about to go to a soccer game. Had Horizons incorporated the family aspect more in the story, it could have been better.
And there you have it. Next time, find out why Steps in Time is the greatest Disney show of all time.
Horizons - 14:53
World of Motion - 14:47
Spaceship Earth - 12:12
Journey into Imagination - 9:54
As you can see Horizons is the longest of the attractions, but only a bit more than World of Motion. Since I love World of Motion, length of the ride isn't a factor for the overall enjoyment of the ride (at least in my case and I assume most other people's cases either).
Scene 1: Looking into the past
Once again, love the concept, give a little history of past ideas of the future before showing the "real future". However the jump is so abrupt. One second you're in a futuristic station for time travel and the next....you hear two people talking about ideas of the future and then get to see the fantastical versions. It's kinda strange to me. However besides that this scene is wonderful and oozing with charm. Plus the callback to COP (which I will touch more on the overall plot and tie to COP later) is fun.
Scene 2: Progress
Probably the coolest scene of the bunch, the screen effects showing what progress people have made super cool. It manages to be relevant and realistic enough to make quite the impression.
Scene 3: The future home
This is prehaps what the entire ride should have been about. Looking into what the house of the future might be in a realistic and optimistic way. This scene stands out the most due to it's realism, however that also harms it a bit due to the house being quite 80s in decor, but it still stands out as the most plausible of all the scenes in the attraction. You can look at this house today and think "hey that actually happened" or think "hey that hover piano thing might happen". It's that well done.
Scene 4: Desert Farm
While I am not sure if the specific crops being grown is possible in a desert (many people say this scene smelt like oranges, so I assume this is an orange tree farm with some additional crops), desert farming is possible. However the equipment here makes the scene dated, it's not as realistic as the house scene. The desert home compared to the previous house is barren and kinda boring to look at even though the set itself is impressive.
Scene 6: Sea City
Did people think living underwater was gonna be a thing? I am curious cause it's just strange to me. This scene sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest, while the setting is amazing everything else in it is just strange. From understanding what a seal is saying, to not actually going into one of the sea homes, I had to wonder if this scene was added last minute or something.
Scene 7: Space
Another amazing scene, with actual space living being closer to a reality I think Disney really missed a fantastic opportunity to make the future Horizons to be about space living. Imagine kids riding a space Horizons as it gets closer and closer to reality, the optimism would have skyrocketed. Plus the soundtrack here is wonderful. The birthday scene also ties everything off wonderfully.
Scene 8: Finale
To be honest, as much as the choose the ending thing is cool, I wish it just had ended with the birthday party. The flight of the spaceship just doesn't match the chill slower pace of the ride.
Now that I dissected the scenes it's time to dissect the rest. The story seems to be a follow up to COP, not only do you got the callback to the song but it also has a parallel to the family in the attraction. As a follow up, I say it does the job both well and bad. The ride does focus on future living, but unlike carousel doesn't focus much on the technology and I feel like a little bit more focus on the tech side of things would have done it some wonders, especially as a follow up to the classic attraction. The personalities from the attraction stick, but perhaps a bit too much, the bickering of the narrators happens a bit too often, it kinda removes what likability the family of the future has. The soundtrack is great, except for the main theme, it's catchy but perhaps the weakest of the Epcot themes. It doesn't have the charm of One Little Spark or Tomorrow's Child or the catchiness of Listen to the Land, Universe of Energy, or It's fun to be Free. It's a ballad and a very 80s one at that. It sticks out from the rest, but I don't really think in a good way. Luckily it doesn't play much and in the ride it's mostly instrumental. What I think the ride fails at is simply following it's mission statement. The mission statement is bring together Epcot in a fun, educational ride showcasing the future. The problem is the ride was marketed as a different one, "come see the future". When people ride it, they expect to see a realistic future, and what you get is not that. Outside of the house, none of the scenes come off as realistic. Not only that, but due to ever changing technology and styles every scene was doomed to become dated from the moment it opened. The sets are cool and the technology used is impressive, but technology shouldn't be everything and Horizons lacks a certain charm other dark rides in Epcot had. The other rides were also optimistic but what makes them stand out is that they weren't going for realism, they were their own stories. What would make Horizons better is if it focused more on the storytelling rather than the set pieces. Imagination also focused on setpieces but the difference there is that each setpiece clearly showed it's own world and let the audience have enough time to absorb it all and marvel at the beauty. Each set piece in Horizons last very quickly and focus on too little to make it interesting, outside of the house and the space scene, which are the two best scenes in the ride.
What attractions do something similar to Horizons that are better?
I promised that at the end I will showcase some similar attractions that I find do something similar to Horizons, but with better execution.
Delta Dreamflight:
I am honestly surprised this ride doesn't get the love Horizons or any of the Epcot rides got. It is basically Tomorrowland's answer to World of Motion but does it way better. So why am I comparing this mainly to Horizons and not WOM? Because like Horizons it shows the past, present, and future of it's main concept (for Dreamflight it's flying) as well as having elaborate setpieces with screens and technology. One of the first things I notice about Dreamflight is that it has less setup than Horizons. Horizons you have to immerse yourself that your in a time travel spaceship, but it doesn't do a good job at being consistent with that setting. While in Dreamflight you're just there. While having less of a story is bad, sometimes less is more especially when tying it in with ride vehicles and what not. There's also no narration in Dreamflight, you are trusted with your senses to understand what's going on around you. While many epcot rides do have narrations, I feel like the narration in Horizons both helps and hurts it. Neither narrator is likeable do to the arguments the two have during the ride. It's more awkward than charming. Once again, sometimes less is more, visualizing the future is cooler than being told what is the future. It also does the speed up thing better, in Horizons your time machine speeds up at the end, which kinda goes against the calming vibe the ride had up to the point and while cool, isn't a better ending than the birthday party. In Dreamflight it's less abrupt and there's a bit more build up to it. However Dreamflight isn't without it's issues, it's a lot faster and there isn't a whole lot of scenes and the future scene is clearly 90s cgi. But it manages to have charm to it, a sort of mini futureworld ride.
House of Innoventions/Vision House:
If you want a good realistic look of the future, the best place in Epcot wasn't Horizons, it was this. What makes the Innoventions home stand out is since it was an exhibit, it could easily be swapped out with new technology whenever needed. Of course due to it being an corporate exhibit and not a ride, it lacks a lot of charm, but it did it's job better than Horizons ever could. However I'd argue that it did the family aspect better than Horizons, especially the Disneyland version where it had a story with a family about to go to a soccer game. Had Horizons incorporated the family aspect more in the story, it could have been better.
And there you have it. Next time, find out why Steps in Time is the greatest Disney show of all time.
spacemt354
Chili's
I respectfully disagree with most of this opinion - but I'm very impressed with how well thought out this is!Plebeian Series Episode 1: Horizons (and why I'm not a big fan of it)
Before I start lemme say I love the idea and concept of Horizons, I think it's a great concept and well worth bringing back in some fashion. However, I tried and tried to love Horizons as a ride but I just can't. Sit back and relax as I go scene by scene dissecting what I do like and what I didn't and at the end you'll find a few similar Disney attractions that I think did the concept better. Keep in mind though I never got to ride this, maybe this was really a better attraction to see in person, but that doesn't stop me from judging
Now to start off let's compare length of attractions, now I don't realllly think that the length is why I dislike it, but some can say it can be a factor for enjoyment. Length is compared via youtube videos, nothing I can really control here. I will also compare for the 80s versions of these attractions to make it more fair. Also I didn't compare Energy or Living with the Land here as I am not really sure if they fully count as a dark ride. They're kinda their own things.
Horizons - 14:53
World of Motion - 14:47
Spaceship Earth - 12:12
Journey into Imagination - 9:54
As you can see Horizons is the longest of the attractions, but only a bit more than World of Motion. Since I love World of Motion, length of the ride isn't a factor for the overall enjoyment of the ride (at least in my case and I assume most other people's cases either).
Scene 1: Looking into the past
Once again, love the concept, give a little history of past ideas of the future before showing the "real future". However the jump is so abrupt. One second you're in a futuristic station for time travel and the next....you hear two people talking about ideas of the future and then get to see the fantastical versions. It's kinda strange to me. However besides that this scene is wonderful and oozing with charm. Plus the callback to COP (which I will touch more on the overall plot and tie to COP later) is fun.
Scene 2: Progress
Probably the coolest scene of the bunch, the screen effects showing what progress people have made super cool. It manages to be relevant and realistic enough to make quite the impression.
Scene 3: The future home
This is prehaps what the entire ride should have been about. Looking into what the house of the future might be in a realistic and optimistic way. This scene stands out the most due to it's realism, however that also harms it a bit due to the house being quite 80s in decor, but it still stands out as the most plausible of all the scenes in the attraction. You can look at this house today and think "hey that actually happened" or think "hey that hover piano thing might happen". It's that well done.
Scene 4: Desert Farm
While I am not sure if the specific crops being grown is possible in a desert (many people say this scene smelt like oranges, so I assume this is an orange tree farm with some additional crops), desert farming is possible. However the equipment here makes the scene dated, it's not as realistic as the house scene. The desert home compared to the previous house is barren and kinda boring to look at even though the set itself is impressive.
Scene 6: Sea City
Did people think living underwater was gonna be a thing? I am curious cause it's just strange to me. This scene sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest, while the setting is amazing everything else in it is just strange. From understanding what a seal is saying, to not actually going into one of the sea homes, I had to wonder if this scene was added last minute or something.
Scene 7: Space
Another amazing scene, with actual space living being closer to a reality I think Disney really missed a fantastic opportunity to make the future Horizons to be about space living. Imagine kids riding a space Horizons as it gets closer and closer to reality, the optimism would have skyrocketed. Plus the soundtrack here is wonderful. The birthday scene also ties everything off wonderfully.
Scene 8: Finale
To be honest, as much as the choose the ending thing is cool, I wish it just had ended with the birthday party. The flight of the spaceship just doesn't match the chill slower pace of the ride.
Now that I dissected the scenes it's time to dissect the rest. The story seems to be a follow up to COP, not only do you got the callback to the song but it also has a parallel to the family in the attraction. As a follow up, I say it does the job both well and bad. The ride does focus on future living, but unlike carousel doesn't focus much on the technology and I feel like a little bit more focus on the tech side of things would have done it some wonders, especially as a follow up to the classic attraction. The personalities from the attraction stick, but perhaps a bit too much, the bickering of the narrators happens a bit too often, it kinda removes what likability the family of the future has. The soundtrack is great, except for the main theme, it's catchy but perhaps the weakest of the Epcot themes. It doesn't have the charm of One Little Spark or Tomorrow's Child or the catchiness of Listen to the Land, Universe of Energy, or It's fun to be Free. It's a ballad and a very 80s one at that. It sticks out from the rest, but I don't really think in a good way. Luckily it doesn't play much and in the ride it's mostly instrumental. What I think the ride fails at is simply following it's mission statement. The mission statement is bring together Epcot in a fun, educational ride showcasing the future. The problem is the ride was marketed as a different one, "come see the future". When people ride it, they expect to see a realistic future, and what you get is not that. Outside of the house, none of the scenes come off as realistic. Not only that, but due to ever changing technology and styles every scene was doomed to become dated from the moment it opened. The sets are cool and the technology used is impressive, but technology shouldn't be everything and Horizons lacks a certain charm other dark rides in Epcot had. The other rides were also optimistic but what makes them stand out is that they weren't going for realism, they were their own stories. What would make Horizons better is if it focused more on the storytelling rather than the set pieces. Imagination also focused on setpieces but the difference there is that each setpiece clearly showed it's own world and let the audience have enough time to absorb it all and marvel at the beauty. Each set piece in Horizons last very quickly and focus on too little to make it interesting, outside of the house and the space scene, which are the two best scenes in the ride.
What attractions do something similar to Horizons that are better?
I promised that at the end I will showcase some similar attractions that I find do something similar to Horizons, but with better execution.
Delta Dreamflight:
I am honestly surprised this ride doesn't get the love Horizons or any of the Epcot rides got. It is basically Tomorrowland's answer to World of Motion but does it way better. So why am I comparing this mainly to Horizons and not WOM? Because like Horizons it shows the past, present, and future of it's main concept (for Dreamflight it's flying) as well as having elaborate setpieces with screens and technology. One of the first things I notice about Dreamflight is that it has less setup than Horizons. Horizons you have to immerse yourself that your in a time travel spaceship, but it doesn't do a good job at being consistent with that setting. While in Dreamflight you're just there. While having less of a story is bad, sometimes less is more especially when tying it in with ride vehicles and what not. There's also no narration in Dreamflight, you are trusted with your senses to understand what's going on around you. While many epcot rides do have narrations, I feel like the narration in Horizons both helps and hurts it. Neither narrator is likeable do to the arguments the two have during the ride. It's more awkward than charming. Once again, sometimes less is more, visualizing the future is cooler than being told what is the future. It also does the speed up thing better, in Horizons your time machine speeds up at the end, which kinda goes against the calming vibe the ride had up to the point and while cool, isn't a better ending than the birthday party. In Dreamflight it's less abrupt and there's a bit more build up to it. However Dreamflight isn't without it's issues, it's a lot faster and there isn't a whole lot of scenes and the future scene is clearly 90s cgi. But it manages to have charm to it, a sort of mini futureworld ride.
House of Innoventions/Vision House:
If you want a good realistic look of the future, the best place in Epcot wasn't Horizons, it was this. What makes the Innoventions home stand out is since it was an exhibit, it could easily be swapped out with new technology whenever needed. Of course due to it being an corporate exhibit and not a ride, it lacks a lot of charm, but it did it's job better than Horizons ever could. However I'd argue that it did the family aspect better than Horizons, especially the Disneyland version where it had a story with a family about to go to a soccer game. Had Horizons incorporated the family aspect more in the story, it could have been better.
And there you have it. Next time, find out why Steps in Time is the greatest Disney show of all time.
TwilightZone
Well-Known Member
Thank you! It's something I've been thinking about for a while, because I want to like Horizons. The concept is great! I could only imagine how amazing the 90s Horizons could have been, whether the OG concept or the Space concept. Even though I'm really pumped to ride Mission: Space it wasn't the replacement Horizons should have gotten even with my impression of the ride being somewhat negative.
JokersWild
Well-Known Member
Firstly, I 1000% respect your opinion. This is a great dissection of the attraction, and I'd love to see you do more of this. That being said, allow me to rebut because I am, unfortunately, an unabashed Horizons stan and this is a debate i don't think I'll ever be able to have with someone again.Plebeian Series Episode 1: Horizons (and why I'm not a big fan of it)
Before I start lemme say I love the idea and concept of Horizons, I think it's a great concept and well worth bringing back in some fashion. However, I tried and tried to love Horizons as a ride but I just can't. Sit back and relax as I go scene by scene dissecting what I do like and what I didn't and at the end you'll find a few similar Disney attractions that I think did the concept better. Keep in mind though I never got to ride this, maybe this was really a better attraction to see in person, but that doesn't stop me from judging
Now to start off let's compare length of attractions, now I don't realllly think that the length is why I dislike it, but some can say it can be a factor for enjoyment. Length is compared via youtube videos, nothing I can really control here. I will also compare for the 80s versions of these attractions to make it more fair. Also I didn't compare Energy or Living with the Land here as I am not really sure if they fully count as a dark ride. They're kinda their own things.
Horizons - 14:53
World of Motion - 14:47
Spaceship Earth - 12:12
Journey into Imagination - 9:54
As you can see Horizons is the longest of the attractions, but only a bit more than World of Motion. Since I love World of Motion, length of the ride isn't a factor for the overall enjoyment of the ride (at least in my case and I assume most other people's cases either).
Scene 1: Looking into the past
Once again, love the concept, give a little history of past ideas of the future before showing the "real future". However the jump is so abrupt. One second you're in a futuristic station for time travel and the next....you hear two people talking about ideas of the future and then get to see the fantastical versions. It's kinda strange to me. However besides that this scene is wonderful and oozing with charm. Plus the callback to COP (which I will touch more on the overall plot and tie to COP later) is fun.
Scene 2: Progress
Probably the coolest scene of the bunch, the screen effects showing what progress people have made super cool. It manages to be relevant and realistic enough to make quite the impression.
Scene 3: The future home
This is prehaps what the entire ride should have been about. Looking into what the house of the future might be in a realistic and optimistic way. This scene stands out the most due to it's realism, however that also harms it a bit due to the house being quite 80s in decor, but it still stands out as the most plausible of all the scenes in the attraction. You can look at this house today and think "hey that actually happened" or think "hey that hover piano thing might happen". It's that well done.
Scene 4: Desert Farm
While I am not sure if the specific crops being grown is possible in a desert (many people say this scene smelt like oranges, so I assume this is an orange tree farm with some additional crops), desert farming is possible. However the equipment here makes the scene dated, it's not as realistic as the house scene. The desert home compared to the previous house is barren and kinda boring to look at even though the set itself is impressive.
Scene 6: Sea City
Did people think living underwater was gonna be a thing? I am curious cause it's just strange to me. This scene sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest, while the setting is amazing everything else in it is just strange. From understanding what a seal is saying, to not actually going into one of the sea homes, I had to wonder if this scene was added last minute or something.
Scene 7: Space
Another amazing scene, with actual space living being closer to a reality I think Disney really missed a fantastic opportunity to make the future Horizons to be about space living. Imagine kids riding a space Horizons as it gets closer and closer to reality, the optimism would have skyrocketed. Plus the soundtrack here is wonderful. The birthday scene also ties everything off wonderfully.
Scene 8: Finale
To be honest, as much as the choose the ending thing is cool, I wish it just had ended with the birthday party. The flight of the spaceship just doesn't match the chill slower pace of the ride.
Now that I dissected the scenes it's time to dissect the rest. The story seems to be a follow up to COP, not only do you got the callback to the song but it also has a parallel to the family in the attraction. As a follow up, I say it does the job both well and bad. The ride does focus on future living, but unlike carousel doesn't focus much on the technology and I feel like a little bit more focus on the tech side of things would have done it some wonders, especially as a follow up to the classic attraction. The personalities from the attraction stick, but perhaps a bit too much, the bickering of the narrators happens a bit too often, it kinda removes what likability the family of the future has. The soundtrack is great, except for the main theme, it's catchy but perhaps the weakest of the Epcot themes. It doesn't have the charm of One Little Spark or Tomorrow's Child or the catchiness of Listen to the Land, Universe of Energy, or It's fun to be Free. It's a ballad and a very 80s one at that. It sticks out from the rest, but I don't really think in a good way. Luckily it doesn't play much and in the ride it's mostly instrumental. What I think the ride fails at is simply following it's mission statement. The mission statement is bring together Epcot in a fun, educational ride showcasing the future. The problem is the ride was marketed as a different one, "come see the future". When people ride it, they expect to see a realistic future, and what you get is not that. Outside of the house, none of the scenes come off as realistic. Not only that, but due to ever changing technology and styles every scene was doomed to become dated from the moment it opened. The sets are cool and the technology used is impressive, but technology shouldn't be everything and Horizons lacks a certain charm other dark rides in Epcot had. The other rides were also optimistic but what makes them stand out is that they weren't going for realism, they were their own stories. What would make Horizons better is if it focused more on the storytelling rather than the set pieces. Imagination also focused on setpieces but the difference there is that each setpiece clearly showed it's own world and let the audience have enough time to absorb it all and marvel at the beauty. Each set piece in Horizons last very quickly and focus on too little to make it interesting, outside of the house and the space scene, which are the two best scenes in the ride.
What attractions do something similar to Horizons that are better?
I promised that at the end I will showcase some similar attractions that I find do something similar to Horizons, but with better execution.
Delta Dreamflight:
I am honestly surprised this ride doesn't get the love Horizons or any of the Epcot rides got. It is basically Tomorrowland's answer to World of Motion but does it way better. So why am I comparing this mainly to Horizons and not WOM? Because like Horizons it shows the past, present, and future of it's main concept (for Dreamflight it's flying) as well as having elaborate setpieces with screens and technology. One of the first things I notice about Dreamflight is that it has less setup than Horizons. Horizons you have to immerse yourself that your in a time travel spaceship, but it doesn't do a good job at being consistent with that setting. While in Dreamflight you're just there. While having less of a story is bad, sometimes less is more especially when tying it in with ride vehicles and what not. There's also no narration in Dreamflight, you are trusted with your senses to understand what's going on around you. While many epcot rides do have narrations, I feel like the narration in Horizons both helps and hurts it. Neither narrator is likeable do to the arguments the two have during the ride. It's more awkward than charming. Once again, sometimes less is more, visualizing the future is cooler than being told what is the future. It also does the speed up thing better, in Horizons your time machine speeds up at the end, which kinda goes against the calming vibe the ride had up to the point and while cool, isn't a better ending than the birthday party. In Dreamflight it's less abrupt and there's a bit more build up to it. However Dreamflight isn't without it's issues, it's a lot faster and there isn't a whole lot of scenes and the future scene is clearly 90s cgi. But it manages to have charm to it, a sort of mini futureworld ride.
House of Innoventions/Vision House:
If you want a good realistic look of the future, the best place in Epcot wasn't Horizons, it was this. What makes the Innoventions home stand out is since it was an exhibit, it could easily be swapped out with new technology whenever needed. Of course due to it being an corporate exhibit and not a ride, it lacks a lot of charm, but it did it's job better than Horizons ever could. However I'd argue that it did the family aspect better than Horizons, especially the Disneyland version where it had a story with a family about to go to a soccer game. Had Horizons incorporated the family aspect more in the story, it could have been better.
And there you have it. Next time, find out why Steps in Time is the greatest Disney show of all time.
To respond to your first critique of a jarring transition into the "looking back at the past" scenes, I think most of the transition is there in the dialogue. Personally, I don't think that it's any worse that Spaceship Earth, which has close to the same transition going from a futuristic load to an Ice Age sequence through scant narration.
I think that a lot of the issues that you have the with attraction stem from you looking at it from a modern perspective. Of course the ride's going to look dated; it was opened in 1983 and it never received a proper refurbishment other than literally removing the GE signage when they pulled out of the pavilion in '93(?). In terms of the settings presented, the main thesis of Horizons was to show the possibility of future living in what was (and is) considered to be uninhabitable places. Mesa Verde is a desert-turned-oasis farm through modern aqueduct technology, focused on breeding hybrid fruits and vegetables to make farming more efficient (the scenes smelled of l'oranges, which was a lime/ orange hybrid fruit), which is why you get weird props like banana-grapes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that this is something that The Land pavilion is still dabbling with.
Sea Castle is actually more realistic than you'd think, though it's presented in a much more fanciful way than reality. There are still people trying to settle underwater to varying success, and there are actually underwater research labs, aquariums (partially,) and even hotels operating today. Though it's not something that people are rushing to see through, it is a technology is is, and has been, being developed. Sea Castle was also definitely always a part of development, though it is weird that you never see a home. I think that it's purpose was to focus more on the labs/ industry (underwater mining, I think) since an underwater home would literally just be a metal box.
Space is definitely where Horizons earns its' icon status. One of the best theme park scores coupled with absolutely stunning sets and surprisingly effective effects.
In terms of the finale, I think that the main point of it was to add a little bit of excitement to an otherwise relaxing attraction. It gives pretty great overviews of each of the three featured settlements (excluding Nova Cite), and it was a great use of new technologies - I think that it was one of the first attractions to have a touch screen and actual guest input, and it uses the same Omnimax screen wrapping effect that was used in the modern technologies sequence.
In terms of "New Horizons" the song, personally I think that "Tomorrow's Child" is far more egregiously '80s, though I do totally agree that it lacks the timelessness that certain songs like "One Little Spark" and "It's Fun to be Free" have. I also totally disagree that Horizons doesn't follow its' own mission statement, as it absolutely did when it opened in 1983. It is a vision of a distant future with predicted technology and advancements...from 1983. Like you and Space said, if this got an update on the scale of Space Ship Earth 1994, Horizons would absolutely still be open today and it would probably be even more beloved. However, for me personally, these problems aren't problems when you realize how absolutely mismanaged the attraction (and park if we're being honest) was following its' opening.
In terms of other attractions that have the same spirit, I definitely agree with Dreamflight. I absolutely adore that attraction, and I wish that it got the credit that it deserved. It is definitely a "Horizons-lite" of sorts, at least in its' pacing and structure, though I wouldn't say that it's more successful. That being said, it did have a comparatively short run, so I'm not surprised. Frankly, I'm disappointed that If You Had Wings gets more love, because that ride is hot garbage.
Apologies for this bout of unabashed Horizons stanning, but I thought that it would be worth it to at least try to explain the perspective of the fandom. Also, I don't think that I've actively talked or thought about Horizons in like five years, so it was a nice bit of nostalgia to be able to revisit one of the attractions that thrust me deeper into the dark pit that is the Disney parks fandom. Again, I totally respect your opinions, and I'd love to see you do more of this, hot takes or not.
D Hulk
Well-Known Member
Today the DisneySky project turns a new leaf, and begins a new land...
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I think for me the reason that Horizons tends to slightly underwhelm me compared to the other Future World rides from the time is that the Looking into the Past section and the Choose your Ending section both feel disjointed from the main part of the ride tonally and stylistically. Very cool stuff. And would probably be better in person for the finale. But the strongest part of the ride and the thing that tends to be the most beloved is the section in the future. If the ride was just that I think it would be stronger and have a better flow.Plebeian Series Episode 1: Horizons (and why I'm not a big fan of it)
Before I start lemme say I love the idea and concept of Horizons, I think it's a great concept and well worth bringing back in some fashion. However, I tried and tried to love Horizons as a ride but I just can't. Sit back and relax as I go scene by scene dissecting what I do like and what I didn't and at the end you'll find a few similar Disney attractions that I think did the concept better. Keep in mind though I never got to ride this, maybe this was really a better attraction to see in person, but that doesn't stop me from judging
Now to start off let's compare length of attractions, now I don't realllly think that the length is why I dislike it, but some can say it can be a factor for enjoyment. Length is compared via youtube videos, nothing I can really control here. I will also compare for the 80s versions of these attractions to make it more fair. Also I didn't compare Energy or Living with the Land here as I am not really sure if they fully count as a dark ride. They're kinda their own things.
Horizons - 14:53
World of Motion - 14:47
Spaceship Earth - 12:12
Journey into Imagination - 9:54
As you can see Horizons is the longest of the attractions, but only a bit more than World of Motion. Since I love World of Motion, length of the ride isn't a factor for the overall enjoyment of the ride (at least in my case and I assume most other people's cases either).
Scene 1: Looking into the past
Once again, love the concept, give a little history of past ideas of the future before showing the "real future". However the jump is so abrupt. One second you're in a futuristic station for time travel and the next....you hear two people talking about ideas of the future and then get to see the fantastical versions. It's kinda strange to me. However besides that this scene is wonderful and oozing with charm. Plus the callback to COP (which I will touch more on the overall plot and tie to COP later) is fun.
Scene 2: Progress
Probably the coolest scene of the bunch, the screen effects showing what progress people have made super cool. It manages to be relevant and realistic enough to make quite the impression.
Scene 3: The future home
This is prehaps what the entire ride should have been about. Looking into what the house of the future might be in a realistic and optimistic way. This scene stands out the most due to it's realism, however that also harms it a bit due to the house being quite 80s in decor, but it still stands out as the most plausible of all the scenes in the attraction. You can look at this house today and think "hey that actually happened" or think "hey that hover piano thing might happen". It's that well done.
Scene 4: Desert Farm
While I am not sure if the specific crops being grown is possible in a desert (many people say this scene smelt like oranges, so I assume this is an orange tree farm with some additional crops), desert farming is possible. However the equipment here makes the scene dated, it's not as realistic as the house scene. The desert home compared to the previous house is barren and kinda boring to look at even though the set itself is impressive.
Scene 6: Sea City
Did people think living underwater was gonna be a thing? I am curious cause it's just strange to me. This scene sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest, while the setting is amazing everything else in it is just strange. From understanding what a seal is saying, to not actually going into one of the sea homes, I had to wonder if this scene was added last minute or something.
Scene 7: Space
Another amazing scene, with actual space living being closer to a reality I think Disney really missed a fantastic opportunity to make the future Horizons to be about space living. Imagine kids riding a space Horizons as it gets closer and closer to reality, the optimism would have skyrocketed. Plus the soundtrack here is wonderful. The birthday scene also ties everything off wonderfully.
Scene 8: Finale
To be honest, as much as the choose the ending thing is cool, I wish it just had ended with the birthday party. The flight of the spaceship just doesn't match the chill slower pace of the ride.
Now that I dissected the scenes it's time to dissect the rest. The story seems to be a follow up to COP, not only do you got the callback to the song but it also has a parallel to the family in the attraction. As a follow up, I say it does the job both well and bad. The ride does focus on future living, but unlike carousel doesn't focus much on the technology and I feel like a little bit more focus on the tech side of things would have done it some wonders, especially as a follow up to the classic attraction. The personalities from the attraction stick, but perhaps a bit too much, the bickering of the narrators happens a bit too often, it kinda removes what likability the family of the future has. The soundtrack is great, except for the main theme, it's catchy but perhaps the weakest of the Epcot themes. It doesn't have the charm of One Little Spark or Tomorrow's Child or the catchiness of Listen to the Land, Universe of Energy, or It's fun to be Free. It's a ballad and a very 80s one at that. It sticks out from the rest, but I don't really think in a good way. Luckily it doesn't play much and in the ride it's mostly instrumental. What I think the ride fails at is simply following it's mission statement. The mission statement is bring together Epcot in a fun, educational ride showcasing the future. The problem is the ride was marketed as a different one, "come see the future". When people ride it, they expect to see a realistic future, and what you get is not that. Outside of the house, none of the scenes come off as realistic. Not only that, but due to ever changing technology and styles every scene was doomed to become dated from the moment it opened. The sets are cool and the technology used is impressive, but technology shouldn't be everything and Horizons lacks a certain charm other dark rides in Epcot had. The other rides were also optimistic but what makes them stand out is that they weren't going for realism, they were their own stories. What would make Horizons better is if it focused more on the storytelling rather than the set pieces. Imagination also focused on setpieces but the difference there is that each setpiece clearly showed it's own world and let the audience have enough time to absorb it all and marvel at the beauty. Each set piece in Horizons last very quickly and focus on too little to make it interesting, outside of the house and the space scene, which are the two best scenes in the ride.
What attractions do something similar to Horizons that are better?
I promised that at the end I will showcase some similar attractions that I find do something similar to Horizons, but with better execution.
Delta Dreamflight:
I am honestly surprised this ride doesn't get the love Horizons or any of the Epcot rides got. It is basically Tomorrowland's answer to World of Motion but does it way better. So why am I comparing this mainly to Horizons and not WOM? Because like Horizons it shows the past, present, and future of it's main concept (for Dreamflight it's flying) as well as having elaborate setpieces with screens and technology. One of the first things I notice about Dreamflight is that it has less setup than Horizons. Horizons you have to immerse yourself that your in a time travel spaceship, but it doesn't do a good job at being consistent with that setting. While in Dreamflight you're just there. While having less of a story is bad, sometimes less is more especially when tying it in with ride vehicles and what not. There's also no narration in Dreamflight, you are trusted with your senses to understand what's going on around you. While many epcot rides do have narrations, I feel like the narration in Horizons both helps and hurts it. Neither narrator is likeable do to the arguments the two have during the ride. It's more awkward than charming. Once again, sometimes less is more, visualizing the future is cooler than being told what is the future. It also does the speed up thing better, in Horizons your time machine speeds up at the end, which kinda goes against the calming vibe the ride had up to the point and while cool, isn't a better ending than the birthday party. In Dreamflight it's less abrupt and there's a bit more build up to it. However Dreamflight isn't without it's issues, it's a lot faster and there isn't a whole lot of scenes and the future scene is clearly 90s cgi. But it manages to have charm to it, a sort of mini futureworld ride.
House of Innoventions/Vision House:
If you want a good realistic look of the future, the best place in Epcot wasn't Horizons, it was this. What makes the Innoventions home stand out is since it was an exhibit, it could easily be swapped out with new technology whenever needed. Of course due to it being an corporate exhibit and not a ride, it lacks a lot of charm, but it did it's job better than Horizons ever could. However I'd argue that it did the family aspect better than Horizons, especially the Disneyland version where it had a story with a family about to go to a soccer game. Had Horizons incorporated the family aspect more in the story, it could have been better.
And there you have it. Next time, find out why Steps in Time is the greatest Disney show of all time.
And yes, it was a technological marvel for its time, but the Tokyo BatB ride is a technological marvel and it looks way less fun and interesting the MMRR which is rather simple comparatively.
But again, this is based on videos which I realize could change that. And Horizons is still amazing. I just don't think it is as strong an experience as Spaceship Earth or World of Motion which are both similar rides. Which brings up another point is that Epcot had too many slow moving dark rides in that era which gave the park a lack of balance and caused these rides to be pushed into competing with each other like Lego Movie Spin Offs.
TwilightZone
Well-Known Member
Wow, now I'm curious to see a type up of this hot take
And no problem with the Horizons love thing haha. Seeing what makes the ride work is interesting to me since I'm one who never fully got the love for it other than like basic concept.
I think looking into the past at least has the excuse of it being a setup and other Epcot rides doing the same thing (except imagination) where it shows the past instead of the future, like what Jokers pointed out. Though I feel like if I were an imagineer on Horizons I would make the past worlds have the same amount of detail, love, and of course style as the rest of the Horizons scenes. Show how our ideas of the future changed in a more positive way before getting into the "real stuff". Because we know now if there was a Horizons 2 or if it had opened right now, it might have mocked the original's future in a similar way. Finale though, yeah it's weird. The birthday party should have been the ending, it's just such a perfect scene that brings a real sense of emotion to the whole experience. Following it up with the spaceship going super speeds is just wrong to me haha. It's like if test track had a scene where one of the test dummies saw his grandma in the first time since months before going into the doors for the super speed section.
This is a pretty good comparison. Horizons' tech is amazing, the settings have a lot of detail, but it's only marginally more fun than Spaceship Earth. Also interesting point with Epcot at the time having too many dark rides competing with each other, I feel like that doesn't help it much. Horizons is cool, but why go on Horizons when you have Imagination which manages to be more impressive (to me anyways).
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spacemt354
Chili's
I was thinking about it to add to yours I have some 'hot takes' as well (or at least things I consider to be the unpopular opinion) Here's some of mineWow, now I'm curious to see a type up of this hot take
And no problem with the Horizons love thing haha. Seeing what makes the ride work is interesting to me since I'm one who never fully got the love for it other than like basic concept.
I think looking into the past at least has the excuse of it being a setup and other Epcot rides doing the same thing (except imagination) where it shows the past instead of the future, like what Jokers pointed out. Though I feel like if I were an imagineer on Horizons I would make the past worlds have the same amount of detail, love, and of course style as the rest of the Horizons scenes. Show how our ideas of the future changed in a more positive way before getting into the "real stuff". Because we know now if there was a Horizons 2 or if it had opened right now, it might have mocked the original's future in a similar way. Finale though, yeah it's weird. The birthday party should have been the ending, it's just such a perfect scene that brings a real sense of emotion to the whole experience. Following it up with the spaceship going super speeds is just wrong to me haha. It's like if test track had a scene where one of the test dummies saw his grandma in the first time since months before going into the doors for the super speed section.
This is a pretty good comparison. Horizons' tech is amazing, the settings have a lot of detail, but it's only marginally more fun than Spaceship Earth. Also interesting point with Epcot at the time having too many dark rides competing with each other, I feel like that doesn't help it much. Horizons is cool, but why go on Horizons when you have Imagination which manages to be more impressive (to me anyways).
- Space Mountain WDW > Space Mountain DL. This may be obvious given my avatars over the years. I'd be abrupt on the reason and just say 'star tunnel music' but I'm just much more of a fan of the ambiance of the WDW version.
- Dinosaur in DAK > Indiana Jones Adventure. The first one might get a pass, but I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers. Objectively IJA is the better overall attraction. But Dinosaur (and especially the CTX version) is so creative a concept, the AAs were very well done, and as a Dino fan growing up this related to me more than Indy. Also it's an attraction that represents Animal Kingdom and would be very hard to clone to another park, unlike IJA.
- I don't need too many World Showcase rides. If Brazil came without an attraction, I really wouldn't mind. Perhaps it's just me getting older but a Mt. Fuji roller coaster and massive crowds in Japan would possibly take away from the quiet moments eating sushi or listening to Beatles music in the UK while eating fish and chips without a stroller parking area for a Mary Poppins ride.
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Some hot takes I fully agree with!