18% Auto gratuity for Party of 6?

[BuddyThomas]

I didn't call you anything, I just said I doubted your story because it was too 'out there' to be believable....IMO. If you want some medal for posting with your own name and photo, you're not going to get one here. If you just enjoy being unreasonable, well have at it.

I don't want your medal. You called me a liar. I was using that as an example that I'm real. Of course now you've called me an unreasonable liar. I think I need to introduce you to BuzzKillington. The two of you would love each other.

 

[Dwarful]

I don't know how other large groups make their plans, but we went in Feb. with a band group of roughly 200. All of our meals were prepaid and tips included. The kids and adults were given this information from our WDW tour guide and when we got our receipts tips were included...it sort of looked similar to the TiW printout. We did not have the regular dining plan.

I heard on the radio back in March of a waitress in Anaheim..who chased down a group of 4 adults who stiffed her on the whole check...they ran her over with their car. She survived and they were caught and charged accordingly. In this day and age I wouldn't run after anyone for a tip no matter how mad I was.

I read an article today that stated Americans spent more at bars and restaurants than they did in grocery stores for the first time in 2014. So, I guess someone is tipping well...or there are a lot of ticked off wait staff working in restaurants and bars. Honestly, I don't mind tipping well for great service, but I will not tip well just to tip.

I think people are getting frustrated with the tipping at WDW especially with the artificially high prices and the steady decline in quality. (I'll save that for another thread). In my opinion...please don't flame me...it is just my opinion that the character buffets have become the worst offenders in this area. Dinner at CP is now running $45 for anyone 9 and over and about $22 for 3-8 yr olds. The food is now...again in my opinion....on par with the typical neighborhood buffet that charges you (in my area) about $15 - $18 w/drinks for adults and $8 for kids. A family of four from 'anywhere USA' with two kids 9 & 7....pay about $160 for the meal at Disney...tip would be $32. same meal minus characters about $70 tip would be $14.

I know this is wishful thinking and that it would never happen, but I'd rather pay a flat $20 per person for the character experience portion of the meal and then the appropriate price for the average buffet. Again...my opinion...but I don't think people are flocking to the buffets for amazing food and dining experiences....for that we go to some of our favorites, pay a premium price, get a nice meal and tip according to service. Honestly I can count on one hand the number of times we have spoken to a manager at WDW for bad service (Once and we were a group of 12 and were ignored). Even then we left a tip, but not the 18% and we spoke to the manager to let them know our issues.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

I don't want your medal. You called me a liar. I was using that as an example that I'm real. Of course now you've called me an unreasonable liar. I think I need to introduce you to BuzzKillington. The two of you would love each other.

I didn't call you anything. Apparently you have difficulty reading. I merely expressed my doubts on your story. I'm not so naive as to take anything anyone posts online as factual or true.

 

[Dwarful]

I think you should always follow the rule, " if you can't afford to leave a tip, you can't afford to eat out at a restaurant!"

I agree 100%. I also think if you get bad service you need to let management know AND tip accordingly. I'm not going to tip 20% if the service is bad. The one time we did (in 20 years of married trips) receive bad service with our family of 12 was at one of our favorite places...The Biergarten. We were seated at our table and then abandoned. It was later in the evening and the place was fairly empty. We put our dirty plates on one of the nearby empty tables and we walked over the wait staff drink station to get our drinks filled. At that moment my husband found a worker and asked to speak to a manager. He showed the man our empty plates sitting on the nearby table and pointed out we were walking up and asking workers to fill our drinks. The tip was removed, other staff came and cleared the plates...we did leave a tip but not 20%. That was the one and only time we have been in that situation...but we let the management know why. The manager offered to comp our meals, but the food was fine and the band was entertaining, we didn't want the meal for free, we just didn't want to tip a full 20% for no service.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

I agree 100%. I also think if you get bad service you need to let management know AND tip accordingly. I'm not going to tip 20% if the service is bad. The one time we did (in 20 years of married trips) receive bad service with our family of 12 was at one of our favorite places...The Biergarten. We were seated at our table and then abandoned. It was later in the evening and the place was fairly empty. We put our dirty plates on one of the nearby empty tables and we walked over the wait staff drink station to get our drinks filled. At that moment my husband found a worker and asked to speak to a manager. He showed the man our empty plates sitting on the nearby table and pointed out we were walking up and asking workers to fill our drinks. The tip was removed, other staff came and cleared the plates...we did leave a tip but not 20%. That was the one and only time we have been in that situation...but we let the management know why. The manager offered to comp our meals, but the food was fine and the band was entertaining, we didn't want the meal for free, we just didn't want to tip a full 20% for no service.

"AND tip accordingly"......I agree. If the service is REALLY bad, then in my own view "accordingly" COULD mean not at all or very little.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Here is a portion of the Washington Post article I posted earlier which says a lot. That entire article is very fair to both sides of this issue:

"When you stiff waiters for bad service, you might be penalizing them for something that’s not their fault, such as a backed-up kitchen. And you might be stiffing the rest of the staff, too: Many restaurants pool tips, and servers give a share of their tips to busboys and bartenders, and sometimes even the dishwasher and hosts. At corporate restaurants that electronically track and report tips for tax purposes, employees may be taxed on the full amount of the night’s tips, even though they have to distribute a portion of them to other staff members. Some restaurants also take credit card transaction fees out of their employees’ tips"

 

[DisneyJunkie]

Here is a portion of the Washington Post article I posted earlier which says a lot. That entire article is very fair to both sides of this issue:

"When you stiff waiters for bad service, you might be penalizing them for something that’s not their fault, such as a backed-up kitchen. And you might be stiffing the rest of the staff, too: Many restaurants pool tips, and servers give a share of their tips to busboys and bartenders, and sometimes even the dishwasher and hosts. At corporate restaurants that electronically track and report tips for tax purposes, employees may be taxed on the full amount of the night’s tips, even though they have to distribute a portion of them to other staff members. Some restaurants also take credit card transaction fees out of their employees’ tips"

That makes some good points. It also reinforces my belief that wait staff employees should get a standard pay (at least minimum wage if not a few bucks over) so that they're not as dependent on tips as they are at present. I guess that means, then, that it should be clarified as to what "bad service" constitutes. Kitchen hold-ups, electronic problems, and things beyond the control of the waiter/waitress obviously wouldn't qualify. But if the waiter/waitress has a really bad attitude, is inept and keeps screwing up orders, and things of that nature (which they can control), then a tip may not be in order (or a very small one).

 

[Prince-1]

Incorrect. When I was a jerk of a 16 year old on a school trip to New York, a group of six or seven of us jerks left a waitress a bunch of change (maybe a dollar's worth) on a check that had to have been at least $50 or $60.

The waitress chased us out onto the street and hurled the change at our jerky teen group. The manager then followed us for a block yelling at us.

I don't remember what kind of service she gave but I am sure it was worth more than a handful of change from some ignorant high school jack@sses.

This is an example of why the mandatory tip should, in fact, be mandatory. If you think all the teenagers in the Pop Warner thing and tourist groups on other events are leaving 18% for great service, then you are living in Fantasyland.

Is that Old Fantasyland or the New Fantasyland??

 

[flynnibus]

I think you should always follow the rule, " if you can't afford to leave a tip, you can't afford to eat out at a restaurant!"

What about people that normally expect tips... but aren't paid using the tip-credit? Such as valets, bag handlers, room service, etc?

Same thing... the norm is you are supposed to tip those people.. and those people live day to day EXPECTING to get those tips... it's not just a bonus, but what they count on. Should you stay at home because you don't believe in tipping people purely because they did their job expectations?

Take the 'they don't even get minimum wage' angle out of it.. does your view change?

 

[stevehousse]

People in those job roles make more than minimum wage, not below, albeit it's not much more. I will tip bell service if used, I do not tip mouse keeping.

 

[flynnibus]

People in those job roles make more than minimum wage, not below, albeit it's not much more. I will tip bell service if used, I do not tip mouse keeping.

My point is to highlight is.. neither party is really at risk of not making minimum wage... all of them are expecting to make a certain amount of money on average over a period of time. When they lose tips, they drop below their expected earnings... not that anyone is really at risk of falling below minimum wage.

So.. why are we so hung up on the tip credit and making special situations for people paid with it?

The stress is about 'missing out on expected wages' - not 'zOMG they are working below minimum wage'. And the stress about missing wages is NOT unique to servers. So why are so defensive of servers, vs other people who are hired with the expectation that a good percentage of their wages will be tips?

 

[stevehousse]

My point is to highlight is.. neither party is really at risk of not making minimum wage... all of them are expecting to make a certain amount of money on average over a period of time. When they lose tips, they drop below their expected earnings... not that anyone is really at risk of falling below minimum wage.

So.. why are we so hung up on the tip credit and making special situations for people paid with it?

The stress is about 'missing out on expected wages' - not 'zOMG they are working below minimum wage'. And the stress about missing wages is NOT unique to servers. So why are so defensive of servers, vs other people who are hired with the expectation that a good percentage of their wages will be tips?

Probably because I have worked in restaurants all my life, serving as well, and now I manage restaurants for a large independent restaurant group. So I have been that person that has been stiffed making $3 dollars an hour. I don't expect someone making $9 an hour to be salty over not getting a tip, but a server making below minimum wage, it has s lot of effect on what they make.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't expect someone making $9 an hour to be salty over not getting a tip, but a server making below minimum wage, it has s lot of effect on what they make.

But you are missing the point.. while you think a person is getting paid $9... they really are expecting say.. $14 an hour.. and when they don't get tipped, they drop below that EXPECTED EARNINGS. It doesn't matter what their actual hourly rate is.. these jobs are hired in with an expectation of what they make.

The argument of 'tips aren't just extra' applies to them just as much as it applies to servers.

If a server gets paid $4 an hour or $7... it doesn't matter. None of them hired into the job expecting only to make $7.. they were expecting a target pay well above their hourly rate because they expect and count on tips to make their target pay.

 

[HeatherWatson]

I have been following this thread for a while.

I would like to defend the people who have asserted staff will follow a person out of a restaurant for not tipping, as I have had a manager follow a habitual non-tipper out, demanding a reason, as he knew that I always gave the table impeccable service despite knowing I would not receive a tip. I always strive to give the best service as I know it not only impacts my earnings but also influences people's opinions of the restaurant. Anyways, it DOES happen in the real world, as I'm quite certain my experience is not unique. (Btw, the person returned and now tips regularly )

Secondly, while it may not be exactly mandatory to tip, it is a fact servers depend on tips as source of income, thus if they expect to get paid well, then they will perform well. Additionally, any server who consistently performs poorly will not keep a job because management will receive too many complaints to keep them and maintain the sort of standards making the business profitable.

While it may seem like a server at a buffet is just bringing a table's drinks, I can guarantee they are performing other tasks to augment the party's dining experience. This might be hard to recognize, but it should not go unappreciated, and leaving a gratuity is the commonly accepted means of expressing this in a dining establishment. Waiting on a larger party can be demanding, requiring a greater amount of time and attention from servers who will also be tending to other parties simultaneously. There's only so much a person can do even when using the best of their abilities and available resources. Factor in all these various circumstances with a propensity of patrons to punish servers with poor tipping practices, I feel that it is perfectly acceptable for management to automatically add gratuity for a party of six or more people. Any problems with service need to be brought to management's attention in order for them to appropriately address the problem. Otherwise, I feel that if a person has issues with an automatically added gratuity of which they are aware beforehand, then maybe they should find somewhere else to dine that is more in line with their personal tipping philosophy. Just saying

ETA: I imagine at a character buffet the % a server is required to tip out to others would be significantly more than that at any other sort of dining experience.

 

[daisyduckie]

Correct me if I'm wrong... But if your service is god awful terrible you can call over the manager and adjust the tip accordingly?
Which, call me crazy, if it is that bad I would hope most people would do.

I agree. Not leaving a tip, and not taking the time to explain why, just makes the person look like a cheap jerk. It doesn't send a message that the service was bad, it sends the message that the person is cheap. If the service is bad, bring it to the attention of the server or the manager. If it is too hard to take the time to do that, then the service isn't that bad, and you are just being cheap.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

I agree. Not leaving a tip, and not taking the time to explain why, just makes the person look like a cheap jerk. It doesn't send a message that the service was bad, it sends the message that the person is cheap. If the service is bad, bring it to the attention of the server or the manager. If it is too hard to take the time to do that, then the service isn't that bad, and you are just being cheap.

Disagree. Not leaving a tip doesn't necessarily have anything in the world to do with a person being cheap. It COULD, but it doesn't necessarily - or automatically - mean that. If the diner is expected to consider various reasons why the waiter might not be at fault for bad service, the waiter/waitress should also be expected to consider various reasons why someone didn't leave them a tip (i.e. the diner was cheap, the service they provided the diner was bad and they know it, it was a misunderstanding with the diner(s) where perhaps one thought the other was going to leave the tip.....and so on). If we're to give the waiter/waitress the benefit of the doubt, they can give the diner(s) the benefit of the doubt too. It goes both ways.

 

[HeatherWatson]

Disagree. Not leaving a tip doesn't necessarily have anything in the world to do with a person being cheap. It COULD, but it doesn't necessarily - or automatically - mean that. If the diner is expected to consider various reasons why the waiter might not be at fault for bad service, the waiter/waitress should also be expected to consider various reasons why someone didn't leave them a tip (i.e. the diner was cheap, the service they provided the diner was bad and they know it, it was a misunderstanding with the diner(s) where perhaps one thought the other was going to leave the tip.....and so on). If we're to give the waiter/waitress the benefit of the doubt, they can give the diner(s) the benefit of the doubt too. It goes both ways.

A server knows when they've done a bad job, unless they are brand-spanking new, and no experienced server expects to be tipped well if they are doing a poor job. Short of outwardly disrespecting a table or flat-out failing to deliver any sort of service, I think 15% is acceptable for even poor service. If something with the food goes that horribly wrong, the meal should be comped, resulting in a lower bill for only drinks, which if they were delivered, should be tipped on. If a person only received a Coke, then they shouldn't be tipping for than 45 cents or so, and how hard is it to give that?

ETA: I'm yet to see miscommunication between patrons over who is leaving a tip. In general, anyone who pays the bill, also tips, or else cash is left openly on the table from the person without the "book."

 

[DisneyJunkie]

A server knows when they've done a bad job, unless they are brand-spanking new, and no experienced server expects to be tipped well if they are doing a poor job. Short of outwardly disrespecting a table or flat-out failing to deliver any sort of service, I think 15% is acceptable for even poor service. If something with the food goes that horribly wrong, the meal should be comped, resulting in a lower bill for only drinks, which if they were delivered, should be tipped on. If a person only received a Coke, then they shouldn't be tipping for than 45 cents or so, and how hard is it to give that?

0% could also be acceptable if the diner deems the wait staff's service to be bad enough. But again, it's all up to the individual's discretion, not something mandated by law. 45 cents? You think a waiter/waitress is going to care if 45 cents is left for them? Not likely. But again, for me to even consider leaving a waiter/waitress nothing as a tip would be only under extreme circumstances.

 

[HeatherWatson]

0% could also be acceptable if the diner deems the wait staff's service to be bad enough. But again, it's all up to the individual's discretion, not something mandated by law. 45 cents? You think a waiter/waitress is going to care if 45 cents is left for them? Not likely. But again, for me to even consider leaving a waiter/waitress nothing as a tip would be only under extreme circumstances.

45 cents or not, for me it's about compensation for a service rendered. Perhaps I care more about principle than an actual number. And yes, I'm a waitress--a darn good one too

 

[DisneyJunkie]

45 cents or not, for me it's about compensation for a service rendered. Perhaps I care more about principle than an actual number. And yes, I'm a waitress--a darn good one too

It would be more about principle for me as well. I never have stiffed anyone deserving of a tip, nor can I remember ever having service so bad I didn't leave at least something. But if the situation ever arises where the service I received was beyond awful (on the waiter/waitress, not on other elements) I would have no qualms about leaving no tip at all.