News Disney names D’Amaro as Chairman Disney Parks Experiences and Products

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
If Iger thinks as you described, why would he invest $5.5 billion in a new resort in Shanghai? Why would he green light billions in investment at WDW alone? Why would he green light MM and Grizzly Gulch? The parks have always been part of the synergistic engine that is TWDC, since 1955. You’re coming at this as if you have some personal vendetta against Iger. I’m not a huge fan of his but any objective look will show that your post is wrong.
I believe Shanghai was 100% about greasing the Chinese government for sweatshops by giving them an American “prize”.

But I have no proof.
Funny you mention this. I was thinking when they were having so much trouble with RotR that they needed more Georgia Tech engineers. Or at minimum Purdue.

🚂
Can’t afford one from Carnegie Mellon?
Have you been there?
Yes...how does the answer to that question continue to be a “badge of honor” for what can’t even be argued as a problem child for Disney? Pretty sure that Disney development on Martha vineyards has been cancelled for more dvc at port orleans.
I'm not sure if Aulani is any better than the deluxe resorts at WDW but one thing Aulani has hands down better than any WDW resort- the beautiful Hawaii weather and the constant cool tradewinds. My last trip and I didn't even need AC everyday.
Luckily Disney didn’t have to pay for the weather...or Joe would have spent 3x retail for it.
I’ve stayed at every Disney operated hotel outside of Shanghai/Hong Kong and half or Paris.

There numerous metrics to judge them.

Price is certainly a factor in the overall rating of a property. When I visit WDW I don’t always stay at a deluxe resort because I know I can often receive a great experience of higher value at one of the more affordable options. That doesn’t mean I don’t see that the quality of the overall experience at WL is superior to that of pop century. Service, amenities, theming, groundskeeping, facility maintenance, food and beverage offerings, all combine to make WL a superior product even if I may find better value at a cheaper property.

Yes, I’m only discussing hotels Disney operates. Why wouldn’t I be? I never said it was the best hotel in the world, I said it was the best they offer in the world. Obviously there are hotels in the world that are far better than anything Disney operates, and hotels that are far below. That’s not relevant to discussing how different Disney properties are operated compared to one another.

This isn’t entirely about the physical facility itself. It’s a combination of the facility, the amenities, the service, the entertainment, the maintenance and upkeep, the groundskeeping, the recreation, and the food and beverage offerings. Obviously it’s subject to change. There’s no question there. It could go down or other properties could go up. I never said this was locked in for eternity. In fact we should be hoping it changes, we should be hoping other resorts rise up to meet or beat that level.
I like a good Disney hotel...but it seems like you might need to diversify your “portfolio” 😉
One might say that after a decade of no investment in the parks that $28B since 2011 was necessary. But still, since 2011, $28B ain't nothing to sneeze at. Cars Land, Pandora, 2 Star Wars, Toy Story Land, Tron, GotG, Rat, huge infrastructure projects, and all the major overseas park developments...

There is absolute zero evidence of unwillingness to invest in parks on the part of Iger.

You need to revise your hateratti talking points.
Both things can and are true:
It’s a big number necessitated by building nothing but new price signs at the ticket booths for far too long.
A multi billion app with a stated purpose of reducing the need to build those expensive attractions. Even Iger was once quietly honest about not wanting to deal with the parks and that’s why he shopped around the idea of selling or spinning them off.
People seem to forget what the coverage of that WiFi upgrade was...it was always presented as a way to manipulate and save costs. It is what it is...ie not a “guest satisfaction tool”
 
Last edited:

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Yes...how does the answer to that question continue to be a “badge of honor” for what can’t even be argued as a problem child for Disney? Pretty sure that Disney development on Martha vineyards has been cancelled for more dvc at port orleans.

It’s not a badge of honor, but you can’t exactly have a well informed opinion about the operation, service, and experience at a location if you haven’t actually.... experienced it.

And again, I know Aulani is a problem for Disney. I’m well aware that it has significant financial issues, and the business model won’t be recreated. But this discussion is about the guests perspective not the companies. It’s financial performance and viability is not relevant to the conversation of the quality of the guest experience. That’s you moving the goal post and deflecting the conversation. Despite aulani’s financial woes they have continued to offer a high quality guest experience.


I like a good Disney hotel...but it seems like you might need to diversify your “portfolio” 😉
I travel a lot. I never said I only stay at Disney hotels.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It’s not a badge of honor, but you can’t exactly have a well informed opinion about the operation, service, and experience at a location if you haven’t actually.... experienced it.

And again, I know Aulani is a problem for Disney. I’m well aware that it has significant financial issues, and the business model won’t be recreated. But this discussion is about the guests perspective not the companies. It’s financial performance and viability is not relevant to the conversation of the quality of the guest experience. That’s you moving the goal post and deflecting the conversation. Despite aulani’s financial woes they have continued to offer a high quality guest experience.



I travel a lot. I never said I only stay at Disney hotels.
1. I look at it as “failure” because it’s highly unlikely they invest in that kinda place again...especially offsite.

“This is why we can’t have nice things”. The dvc developments since aulani? Have largely sucked. The grand add on is nice, but small and they just did the same thing more or less.


2. I assumed you did. I was just sticking your stones 🤪
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Jeff and Josh at Disney Springs this morning
3EDE9DC7-C9CF-4A0B-B7A0-276011C45765.jpeg
 

rreading

Well-Known Member
Iger's attitude towards the parks has been this from the start:

- Theme parks are too expensive to operate
- Major investments in theme parks should be avoided unless absolutely necessary
- It is easier and better to develop and promote extra-pay options than infrastructure that does not have its own revenue stream (rides)
- Theme parks are a marketing tool for other divisions. Not building rides based on Disney movies is a waste of time
- People will pay whatever we ask them, because the people who like theme parks are dumb and have no taste

Until the big Bobs leave, Josh (or anyone else) will not change this attitude. Especially if budgets have been slashed.
[/QUOTE]

Clearly this board is mostly anti-Iger, but this is objectively incorrect.

Huge expenditure in DCA for Cars Land and the overall revamp. Amazing result (until this more recent Pixar Pier snafu)

Huge investment in IT infrastructure at WDW. WiFi/network and - yes - FastPass Plus. Sure there are many here who HATE FP+ but it does what intended: spreads out the crowds so that there's a line for Small World when there never was in the past. I assume given that there are people there at SW when there weren't before that they came from somewhere and that the park are just that much more crowded. Either way, huge investment.

Shanghai. $$$

Once he finished with those expenditures, then we started getting Pandora, SW:GE, Toy Story Land, Epcot redo...

If only they would keep watching the details and fix the little things
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Shanghai Disneyland had been a major goal of The Walt Disney Company going back to the mid-to-late 1990s. It was to be Disney’s way into the large Chinese market and something Michael Eisner could/would not complete as it was originally packaged with other guaranteed means of distributing content like a Disney Channel. Completing the park meant doing the big visible thing Michael could not do.

Walt Disney World is now receiving billions because it was neglected for years and continues to follow a strategy of aggressively suppressing attractions per guest per hour. There was even a multi billion dollar effort in MyMagic+ to avoid having to build new attractions for years. They’re buying a new car because they refused to change the oil.

Mystic Point, Grizzly Gulch and Toy Story Playland were demanded by the Government of Hong Kong to help make amends for the bait and switch of the initial build out of Hong Kong Disneyland where Disney announced a larger park but built a significantly smaller park. That massive reduction in scope occurred while Iger was President and COO.

The shear cost of Iger’s park projects, especially in recent years, is not a point of pride. Costs have spiraled completely and totally out of control. Even adjusting for inflation, what once bought the nondescript coaster themed like India or whatever at the beginning of his tenure now does not even buy paint and babies on a stick (Pixar Pier). The return on investment has become worse, with Disney having to spend significantly more to attract new guests and dollars at the parks.
I understand the criticism on costs but any objective person will realize Iger has been making serious investments in the parks. It’s funny how some people hate him so much for some reason and say he thinks theme park attendees are stupid, blah blah blah. It’s just nonsense. Keep in mind Bob Iger is not a robot, he’s a human just like us. Of course he lives Disney or he wouldn’t have been CEO for 15~ years.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I understand the criticism on costs but any objective person will realize Iger has been making serious investments in the parks. It’s funny how some people hate him so much for some reason and say he thinks theme park attendees are stupid, blah blah blah. It’s just nonsense. Keep in mind Bob Iger is not a robot, he’s a human just like us. Of course he lives Disney or he wouldn’t have been CEO for 15~ years.
Theme parks require near constant reinvestment. The big cash spend 2012-2019 only brings them back to near where they should have been had they not locked down the previous decade. In many aspects, they’re right back where they started with much higher prices and disgruntlement.
I didn’t know Aulani was struggling financially? How is that possible?
Massive cost overruns combined with huge reinvestment when the initial build wasn’t a hit.

And it’s not sold out by dvc. They assume the units sell out quickly for the model to work. That’s huge “bleed” over 10 years
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I understand the criticism on costs but any objective person will realize Iger has been making serious investments in the parks. It’s funny how some people hate him so much for some reason and say he thinks theme park attendees are stupid, blah blah blah. It’s just nonsense. Keep in mind Bob Iger is not a robot, he’s a human just like us. Of course he lives Disney or he wouldn’t have been CEO for 15~ years.
What makes an investment serious? Why is overpaying somehow better? How is running out of ideas an objective good? New attractions are being built because MyMagic+ failed, new infrastructure is being built because it was neglected. It’s not objectively good to have to completely replace your roof because you let it rot through in multiple places, even if you end up spending a lot on it.

Iger tried to sell the theme parks. He sold off chunks of Walt Disney World.

Iger wanted to be CEO of a major American corporation. He didn‘t chose to join Disney, his company was acquired.
 

rreading

Well-Known Member
Vahle's only been over Signature Services since 2018 or so, so what's his relationship to Aulani?

I don't know what to think about Vahle. He took over services in 2018 that were largely already well run. I'm unsure what he actually did, what his "stamp" really was. The cruise ships were already in planning pipeline. Maybe Riviera? But I'm unsure that the tower with Grand Florifian-esque prices is necessarily a positive. The best I understand about Vahle is that he kept the train well on the tracks. WDW is more off-track currently so Vahle's going to need to flex some real skill. Has he shown an ability to lead change? I'm unsure and defer to you experts.

I'm wondering if he's shown good leadership skill and that they've been looking to get him a breadth of experience as he moves up. Sounds like he knows the nuts and bolts and now finesse; should be a good combination
 

Imagineer45

Active Member
I really have no feelings positive or negative towards Josh or Jeff, as they do not have too much experience to judge them on compared to Chapek. I do think Rebecca Campbell is a great fit for her new role, as she always had a great understanding of streaming and did not make sense as DL's president.

If Iger thinks as you described, why would he invest $5.5 billion in a new resort in Shanghai? Why would he green light billions in investment at WDW alone? Why would he green light MM and Grizzly Gulch? The parks have always been part of the synergistic engine that is TWDC, since 1955. You’re coming at this as if you have some personal vendetta against Iger. I’m not a huge fan of his but any objective look will show that your post is wrong.

From a quality perspective, Iger has been great. I cannot think of a major park whiff to occur during his tenure (HKDL 1.0 technically debuted during his tenure, but it was entirely Eisner's project as he had just left the role). The problem is that Iger understands the parks are ridiculously profitable and, therefore, need little additional investment that adds risk. As a shareholder, this is great, but as a parks fan, it's annoying. Iger only focused on fixing blights in the existing parks to maintain their standards. I am not saying that this was a bad initiative, as DCA 2.0, New Fantasyland, and Pandora all vastly upgraded neglected areas. However, I have serious doubts that he would have even built DCA, DHS, or DAK if he was in Eisner's shoes. I think Iger went with the motto of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," instead of, "This is good, let's make it better."

The only exceptions to this have been Shanghai and Star Wars Land. Shanghai was started back in Eisner's tenure in 1999 and was necessary for Chinese political reasons including Disney wanting an expanded movie/merchandise presence in China and the Chinese government not enforcing copyright/trademark infringements for Disney in China (including notable instances of Chinese companies building almost exact Disneyland replicas).

1. I look at it as “failure” because it’s highly unlikely they invest in that kinda place again...especially offsite.

“This is why we can’t have nice things”. The dvc developments since aulani? Have largely sucked. The grand add on is nice, but small and they just did the same thing more or less.

Aulani is probably less of a failure and more of a disappointment. There is a difference between not making as much money as anticipated, therefore taking longer to become profitable, and losing money indefinitely (like WDSP or HKDL 1.0). Also, I disagree that we haven't had a good DVC since Aulani. I really like Copper Creek and think Polynesian Villas/Bungalows are good as well. I think Riviera and Grand Floridian Villas both have fine interiors but get a lot of hate for their exteriors.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I really have no feelings positive or negative towards Josh or Jeff, as they do not have too much experience to judge them on compared to Chapek. I do think Rebecca Campbell is a great fit for her new role, as she always had a great understanding of streaming and did not make sense as DL's president.



From a quality perspective, Iger has been great. I cannot think of a major park whiff to occur during his tenure (HKDL 1.0 technically debuted during his tenure, but it was entirely Eisner's project as he had just left the role). The problem is that Iger understands the parks are ridiculously profitable and, therefore, need little additional investment that adds risk. As a shareholder, this is great, but as a parks fan, it's annoying. Iger only focused on fixing blights in the existing parks to maintain their standards. I am not saying that this was a bad initiative, as DCA 2.0, New Fantasyland, and Pandora all vastly upgraded neglected areas. However, I have serious doubts that he would have even built DCA, DHS, or DAK if he was in Eisner's shoes. I think Iger went with the motto of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," instead of, "This is good, let's make it better."

The only exceptions to this have been Shanghai and Star Wars Land. Shanghai was started back in Eisner's tenure in 1999 and was necessary for Chinese political reasons including Disney wanting an expanded movie/merchandise presence in China and the Chinese government not enforcing copyright/trademark infringements for Disney in China (including notable instances of Chinese companies building almost exact Disneyland replicas).



Aulani is probably less of a failure and more of a disappointment. There is a difference between not making as much money as anticipated, therefore taking longer to become profitable, and losing money indefinitely (like WDSP or HKDL 1.0). Also, I disagree that we haven't had a good DVC since Aulani. I really like Copper Creek and think Polynesian Villas/Bungalows are good as well. I think Riviera and Grand Floridian Villas both have fine interiors but get a lot of hate for their exteriors.
I judge “copper creek” for what it is...

In general, less imagination has gone into each new dvc. That’s an alarming trend. I don’t expect we’ll
Ever get a new block with an integrated theme that gives us any unique/surprising highlights to enjoy ever again.

Bland pools and multifunctional bars...some of them on the roof.

Bleh.
 

rreading

Well-Known Member
So how does Bob Iger see the parks when he goes?

I go there and I marvel at how many people are there having the time of their lives. You just get the sense that in a world that can at times feel dark and as sinister as it is, these are people that have escaped all of that. They have spent time and good money, I will say, to provide themselves and their friends, their family, their loved ones, an experience that not only is going to make them feel good, but that they’re going to remember forever.

“Good money” indeed. That may be the only true thing in he says. Do you notice that the premise of this vacuous quote is his shock and “marvel” at people liking Disney parks? He also indulges in a classic trope about theme parks being meaningless escapes. Instead of being great stories that can educate and provide hope, theme parks are about “escape.” Nice.

What about his favorite ride?


“I happen to love Pirates [of the Caribbean]. It was the last attraction Walt was really involved in creating. He died just before it opened. And you go and you think, this is just silly, but it’s great.”

Notice how this is actually a jab. Of course he goes and thinks “this is just silly...” He subtly slams Walt Disney’s creation.

“You look at Main Street and you look at kids meeting Mickey. I love it because of what it means to people. I don’t go thinking, “Wow, look what we’re charging for these churros. Isn’t that great?””

Notice he doesn’t say he likes it. No, he likes it because “people” like it. Also, the fact he brings up the churro price means he does think about churro price. Which is odd.

How do Iger and his family experience the parks? Do they wait in line like all of us?

“It’s different for them, I will admit. They don’t wait in line.”

Nice.

How does Iger view other classic Disney attractions?

”The acquisition of these brands and the creation of intellectual property behind them have had a tremendous impact on growing our returns at the parks. When you have Star Wars to market at the parks...Avatar is a good example, Cars Land, we’re building a Frozen land in [Hong Kong, Tokyo, and Paris parks], the interest among the potential audience is higher. It’s not like, “Well, I’m going to ride some nondescript named coaster somewhere that maybe is like, maybe is in India or whatever.” No, you’re going to Arendelle and you’re going to experience Frozen with Anna and Elsa. Or you’re going to fly a banshee into Pandora. Go to Cars Land. We built Radiator Springs. You’re with the characters in that town.

....

People are coming not just to visit a theme park, they’re coming to experience the stories and the characters, the places, that were part of the movies they loved.”

Not just to a theme park. Who would want to go to just a theme park? He slams Expedition Everest and praises Frozen Ever After.

This disdain for theme parks follows to Bob Chapek.

“And that’s why we have a franchise orientation, and frankly, that’s why the Walt Disney Co. far and away outperforms all of our peers.””

What a sad reason to be “outperform.” Not because of storytelling or service. The cast member and imagineering organizations have been poorly managed and gutted. Things like value or creating a great experience don’t matter. That was how Disney used to differentiate their products. Now they create attractions like Alien Swirling Saucers. Any attraction with a superficial tie to a franchise is seen as an acceptable “Disney” ride.

These guys are maddeningly frustrating.

So I really like and respect your post.

However, it is not difficult to feel differently about the quotes you choose. Sure he's focusing on things the way he does, and it's different than many of us do here on this forum. I love Everest and I believe that Pirates was better before they added Jack Sparrow.

My impression is that he probably feels that it's really difficult to create something for a theme park that no one else has without differentiating it with IP (though they did so with the river ride in Shanghai). It's not a terrible point. Disney owns characters that have a draw; why not capitalize on that?

For him to "marvel" at the people in the parks: they are amazing. He is the CEO. I would marvel as well that I was "in charge" of all that makes people so happy. Even though they may be raising prices, people still love the parks.

I do think that Disney can do well. Alien Swirling Saucers is not good - I assume that some enjoy it but I don't. But Slinky is really well done and the land feels right for what it is (not top-tier). Hopefully Josh can make service (which still is pretty good) even better, and at least the movies are storytelling well.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
It boggles my mind that something like Pixar Pier costs $100 million. How is all that money needed to paint buildings and glue fiberglass Incredibles figures around? It costs $30 million to build a B&M giga coaster from scratch; how can it take $100 million for Pixar Pier?
For what it's worth, Pixar Pier didn't just cost $100 million, it cost more than double that. The makeover was done in an attempt to show that WDI could do things quickly, efficiently, and at a low cost, yet failed at all of these.

Like so many recent WDI projects, it focused on the details without stepping back to look at the bigger picture and ask whether the individual elements added up to a greater sum. For the most part, the execution of each piece was okay, but the fundamental concept was so flawed that it was never going to amount to much. The people approving the project had so little concept of what's reasonable for a construction project that they never thought to question the budget, nor why so many elements weren't completed in time for the grand opening. And all of this for a project that literally added nothing to the park's capacity, just redecorating existing facilities.
From a quality perspective, Iger has been great. I cannot think of a major park whiff to occur during his tenure (HKDL 1.0 technically debuted during his tenure, but it was entirely Eisner's project as he had just left the role).
Aside from the aforementioned Pixar Pier, the additions to the park under Iger's lead have been rather checkered. Without getting into the failures of the MyMagic+ system, here are a couple of the most obvious missteps from physical park projects off the top of my head:
  • The Little Mermaid dark ride cost $100M (the same amount as Everest 5 years prior) for a modest D-ticket attraction, only to require several costly overhauls within the first few years of operation to attempt to fix mistakes that should have been caught early in the design process, especially considering it was built twice
  • Luigi's Flying Tires cost around $250M in an attempt to replicate the simple charm of DL's original Flying Saucers attraction from the 1960's, but failed to catch on with guests due to oversized vehicles, inefficient boarding procedures, awkward maneuvering and just a general lack of fun. Its replacement does much better with guest satisfaction, but cost another $75M, making the total cost for that site unfathomable for what it is
  • Despite the generally-positive reception of WDW's Toy Story Land, it has a huge cost, not only in terms of money (I believe it was over $200M) but also opportunity cost in WDW's most landlocked park. Instead of maximizing limited space, which has often led to WDI's most memorable work in the past, they used 11 acres to add an exposed coaster, simple flat ride, restrooms, and a snack bar. This was their chance to make the most of an expansion of the park's footprint, and it was squandered
  • But perhaps the biggest misstep of all was DL's Galaxy's Edge, which cost over $1B for the land itself, plus hundreds of millions spent throughout the resort for rerouting Rivers of America, park-wide path widening, a massive parking structure, and other general capacity improvements, only to have a summer DL's lightest attendance in years. The ensuing panic caused cuts throughout the resort because they were operating at a capacity that never materialized, and forced them to trot out MSEP yet again in a desperate pleat to draw people in. Summer 2019 at DLR was an unmitigated disaster, which the current pandemic is helping to erase from public memory. The WDW version opened to better reception, due partly to the pathetic state of the Studios park after so many years of reductions with no replacements
Not to mention all the smaller missteps in determining what's possible, feasible, viable and worthwhile in a real operating theme park that aren't as visible to the average park-goer. Sure Flight of Passage is a fun experience, but how many CMs does it take to operate the behemoth building for an embarrassingly low hourly throughput? Why was Be Our Guest originally designed to only have certain dining rooms available during certain meals, when they always knew demand would outstrip supply? Was anybody really expecting that the majority of park guests were going to LARP along with the CMs in SWL? And while we've gotten additions here and there, why have the majority of park areas remained untouched for decades?

Until the creatives, operators, designers and decision-makers can get out of their individual silos and start talking to one another, all these problems are going to persist. Sure, Iger has spent a lot of money on very few meaningful additions to the park, but under better leadership that same amount of money could have been spent much more effectively, both with regard to individual attractions and overall park experience.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom