Len Testa - “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

[wannabeBelle]

For laughs I tried to look for availability - 11/30/2025 - 12/07/2025
Nothing available At All star sports!
All Star Music only had preferred rooms - 4,598 - just for the room
All Star Movies only had preferred rooms - 4,550 - just for the room

I just re-checked your numbers to see if there was any discount offers that could be applied, the room alone was $1884.10 for the Preferred view room. If I add in the base park ticket for the 8 days it is a total of $3582.56. If we go to the Hopper option it is $3784.90. No discount was available for any of the room types at the All Star Movies. I was seeing a room rate of $237.14 per night and I selected two adults only in the room. If I change that to 2 adults and 2 children with an 8 day base ticket the price shoots up to $5233.04. Marie

 

[TheMaxRebo]

For laughs I tried to look for availability - 11/30/2025 - 12/07/2025
Nothing available At All star sports!
All Star Music only had preferred rooms - 4,598 - just for the room
All Star Movies only had preferred rooms - 4,550 - just for the room

I think you might have been looking at the family suites, which are over $400/night for those dates, but the preferred room comes to $1,931.78 for the room for those dates

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think you might have been looking at the family suites, which are over $400/night for those dates, but the preferred room comes to $1,931.78 for the room for those dates

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Oh I think I picked package not room only only.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Oh I think I picked package not room only only.

I did notice the default is the option with number of days of tickets as hotel nights, you have to actively select "no tickets" if you want room only

So that would make sense

 

[DHSfanatic]

Thank you for doing this!

It would be useful to ballpark transportation costs as well. They're counted in travel expenditures, which is why I mention it. Keep in mind that most Americans do not live within a 600-mile drive of a Disney theme park. So for most Americans it's a one- or two-day trip down there (with associated food and lodging expenses), and likely another night in a hotel on the return trip.

America's middle class families - the 3rd of the 5 quintiles of household incomes - earn $71,000 annually and spend $1,900 on travel per year. That $1,900 includes debt-financed travel and families who save up for multiple years for one big trip. (Numbers are from the BLS, and I asked them specifically about the debt and savings things.)

Just reading this thread, I'm encouraged that everyone posting knows to be thankful for the trips we can afford to take the parks. I've read worse. Much worse. I'm thankful for this community.

The thing I didn't realize when I started this research was just how far out of reach a multi-day WDW trip is to the middle class and lower-income families. I'm guessing that with transportation, that trip is going to be closer to 3x the average middle-class annual budget.

If a trip was (and I'm spitballing here), say $2,500 for the trip on a budget of $1,900, I could see my way to "well, if they cut back in other areas, they can still afford this." I struggle to see how a family earning $71K is going to spend 7% of their pre-tax income on a single trip. It really highlights the income gaps between families.

Looks like median household income in 2024 was slightly higher than that at $83,730, but your point still holds that it's tough to afford a $4K-$5K vacation on that income, unless it's a once in four or five years thing.

Median Household Income in the United States

Graph and download economic data for Median Household Income in the United States (MEHOINUSA646N) from 1984 to 2024 about households, median, income, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[DHSfanatic]

I'm just spitballing here, so approach all of this with a healthy dose of skepticism.

• Let's assume that no families in the bottom 60% of American households can afford the kind of multi-day Disney World trip you've outlined. (I'm sure some do. Work with me.)
  
  
• And let's assume that all theme parks have to participate, not just Disney, to make things fair across the industry. Not picking on Disney.
  
  
• And let's assume Disney's park attendance caps stay the same.
  
  
• Assume Disney held a fixed-price lottery for a certain number of 4-night, 5-day all-inclusive Value-resort vacation packages per year. The price is set to whatever amount the BLS said that the middle quintile spent on travel the previous year. So in this case, $1,900 for up to a family of 4. You win the lottery, you pay the $1,900, you get the trip, no questions asked.
  
  
• Let's cap the cash value of the lottery at $500MM per year. That works out to a bit over 260,000 trips at $1,900 each. Assuming each trip cost Disney $5,500, Disney's out-of-pocket costs would be ($5,500 - $1,900) x 260,000 = $936MM.

That would result in more middle-class families going to Disney World than do now. For under $1 billion.

There are obvious objections:

- The wealthy could also enter the lottery and win. Yes, they can. But more middle-class families would go, which is the goal. I'm assuming nobody wants to fill out a FAFSA form to go to Disney World, so means-testing isn't possible.

- Disney would earn $926MM less. The government already imposes on private capital to achieve desired social outcomes through (e.g.,) subsidies, tax rates and credits, and regulations. I'm not sure how this is conceptually different than electric vehicle incentives or pollution laws.

To put that in comparison, Disney's spent ~$2.8B on share buybacks in the last year and $45B since 2010. I'd need to be convinced that the entire house of cards would come crashing down if they only bought back $36B in shares since 2010. Not to harp on share buybacks, but I think until recently the stock was at the same $110 level that it was a decade ago. If the argument is that the share buybacks helped prevent further stock declines, I want to talk about management competency and compensation first.

Winners would have to count the $5,500 as taxable income.

 

[DHSfanatic]

It has been said before, but the NFL game isnt exactly an equal comparison unless you are talking about a game out of state which would include a flight, a hotel stay, eating out, transportation etc. I live about 1/2 hour from Giants Stadium in New Jersey. I can understand the tickets to the game might be expensive (AI is telling me $360 per person for a Giants ticket) but chances are I'd not have to pay more than gas and tolls on the NJ turnpike for transportation, I'd probably tailgate or eat before I went to the game or eat at a local restaurant on the way home. I wouldnt be paying for a hotel as I'd head home afterwards. With Disney you would be staying for a few days at least so some other costs are going to be inevitable. Marie

I also live within a short drive of Giants Stadium. I now skip the games and spend three hours banging my head against the wall. Same result as watching the Giants play but much cheaper.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I also live within a short drive of Giants Stadium. I now skip the games and spend three hours banging my head against the wall. Same result as watching the Giants play but much cheaper.

…not impressed with DANGERuss?

 

[Splash4eva]

I just re-checked your numbers to see if there was any discount offers that could be applied, the room alone was $1884.10 for the Preferred view room. If I add in the base park ticket for the 8 days it is a total of $3582.56. If we go to the Hopper option it is $3784.90. No discount was available for any of the room types at the All Star Movies. I was seeing a room rate of $237.14 per night and I selected two adults only in the room. If I change that to 2 adults and 2 children with an 8 day base ticket the price shoots up to $5233.04. Marie

Now i get this isnt cheap but we are talking 8days/7nights at one of the top vacations destinations in the world… what do people expect and im sorry this is not pricing out the middle class remotely

 

[wannabeBelle]

I also live within a short drive of Giants Stadium. I now skip the games and spend three hours banging my head against the wall. Same result as watching the Giants play but much cheaper.

My Brother in Law has the same feeling on the NY Jets. I believe he still attends the games though. Im sure the tailgating part is awesome!! Marie

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My Brother in Law has the same feeling on the NY Jets. I believe he still attends the games though. Im sure the tailgating part is awesome!! Marie

True story…they actually call them “Gang Green” because of how they smell/fester

 

[Kingdom Konsultant]

I don’t doubt this is the case for you, but not for most. It’s a cheap 2 hour flight with Spirit out of Newark on most days if someone doesn’t require upgrades.

Sadly Spirit is not an option for me with my back issues

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sadly Spirit is not an option for me with my back issues

Doesn’t look like it’s gonna be an option for anyone much longer

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Sadly Spirit is not an option for me with my back issues

Okay I'm sorry that isn't an option for you, it does suck but that's not an issue for the vast majority of people who are extreme budgetting, which is who this conversation is about.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Okay I'm sorry that isn't an option for you, it does suck but that's not an issue for the vast majority of people who are extreme budgetting, which is who this conversation is about.

Go back and read it again…

The article is not about “extreme budgeting”…it’s about pricing out a huge swath of the middle of the pyramid that has traditionally been Disney parks core audience

 

[Kingdom Konsultant]

Okay I'm sorry that isn't an option for you, it does suck but that's not an issue for the vast majority of people who are extreme budgetting, which is who this conversation is about.

I am well aware of what this conversation is about. I deal with it every day with my clients by trying to save them as much money as possible regarding whatever their destination is. This is why I got into the business, to save people money. And who is to say that I don't have to budget? I was speaking to them directly about why I can't utilize Spirit. Believe me, if I could I would.

 

[Miss Bella]

It'll be 15 years this November since I took my 5 year old son to WDW for the first time. We had 6 nights at the Contemporary (Bay Lake View) beginning the Saturday after Thanksgiving, 7 day Park Hoppers, EMH sometimes until 2am, free paper FP's, one night of MVMC, DME to/from the airport, and Free Dining that included much, much more than the current dining plans do.

All in with r/t airfare from Austin for 3 of us: $4600.

It was such a "good deal" that we returned two or three times a year for two or more weeks at time (downgrading to CRS to keep the total around the same) until he became enamored with Harry Potter instead.

I'm fairly certain today a family of 3 could book 6 nights at a value, buy some sort of park tickets, Uber offsite for most meals or have Instacart deliver groceries from Publix, and pay for transportation for roughly that amount.

Whether it's affordable or not, the experience is nowhere near comparable. And that has a dramatic impact on turning first time visitors into loyal customers.

Our first trip 15 years ago was 10 nights at the Poly with deluxe dining 2 adults and 2 kids and it was 5300. I priced out the same trip with regular dining since they don't have deluxe and it 15,500. The cheapest trip I could find for the same amount of time was at the All Star resort and that was 7800 with regular dining. To get the trip down to 5300 I had to shorten the trip to 5 nights at All stars with the dining plan. So 10 nights at Poly with deluxe dining in 2010 is now equal to 5 nights at All stars with regular dining plan.
I would rather not go then stay at a value resort.

 

[Kingdom Konsultant]

Doesn’t look like it’s gonna be an option for anyone much longer

Yeah filing for bankruptcy twice in a year is not a good sign

Pam

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Our first trip 15 years ago was 10 nights at the Poly with deluxe dining 2 adults and 2 kids and it was 5300. I priced out the same trip with regular dining since they don't have deluxe and it 15,500. The cheapest trip I could find for the same amount of time was at the All Star resort and that was 7800 with regular dining. To get the trip down to 5300 I had to shorten the trip to 5 nights at All stars with the dining plan. So 10 nights at Poly with deluxe dining in 2010 is now equal to 5 nights at All stars with regular dining plan.
I would rather not go then stay at a value resort.

$5,300 in 2010 dollars is $7,861.48 in 2025 so could do the full trip just at a value instead of a deluxe.

 

[Kingdom Konsultant]

For years I would have clients that would tell me that this would be a once in a lifetime trip for them. They would save up money for a few years in order to afford to take their family and I would do everything possible to bring that cost down for them. Sadly, with how things have skyrocketed in the last 5+ years, they cannot do that any more. It's sad that something that was a dream for so many has vanished. We see a lot of people opting for other destinations now and our non Disney business has gone way up.

Pam