DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

[peter11435]

New engineering plans?

Utter nonsense. Stop now.

It’s not nonsense at all. It’s fact.

You keeping using the word nonsense in all of your posts but you’re the one who doesn’t know what their talking about.

Go back and look at construction photos of ToT in Paris when it was cloned from DCA. Just because they were clones doesn’t mean they were identical from an engineering standpoint.

Everything needs to be planned, designed, and engineered for its specific site, building codes, and regulations. These things can not simply be copied and pasted in a new location.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But, for example isn't Galaxy Edge the same Layout on both East & West Batuu's?

Yes, Galaxy’s Edge tried to do “design once, build twice” but that was planned and coordinated from the beginning. As much as possible they tried to meet California and Florida regulations at the same time, but even then they had to do some differences based on where it is impossible to harmonize the different codes. Then there were just some differences due to the different sites.

Other projects aren’t designed to meet different regulations. It doesn’t make sense to try and design something to meet six different code and site requirements. Even just in the US, California and Florida regularly update their building codes every three years, so any project not designed and built simultaneously like Galaxy’s Edge would most certainly be out of date by the time a decision to clone was made. The changes from cycle to cycle are not usually huge, but you still have to do the work to go through and at least check.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

If you want to say that they should change the theme, that's a different topic than insisting that cute cartoon animals were always the theme. The theme probably will shift at least somewhat to Disney IP because that's the way everything is going with the parks these days.

I'm saying the guests ultimately set the theme, not Joe Rohde. He just makes suggestions that the guests accept or reject.

Rohde suggested restricting cute animals*, and the guests have rejected that.

This is not about what I want; I'm just reporting polls and such from outside this echo chamber.

EDIT: *Sorta

 

[DisneyHead123]

I'm saying the guests ultimately set the theme, not Joe Rohde. He just makes suggestions that the guests accept or reject.

Rohde suggested restricting cute animals*, and the guests have rejected that.

This is not about what I want; I'm just reporting polls and such from outside this echo chamber.

EDIT: *Sorta

I mean they can suggest changing the theme now, in 2025. But of course the Imagineers set the original theme. They designed the park.

Honestly I don’t understand the need to not only change the theme but also insist that it’s in keeping with the original theme. If a person’s stance is “I don’t care about the OG theme, I’m team cute cartoon animals,” fine. No need to pretend that cute cartoon animals with accompanying popcorn buckets embody some kind of timeless AK theme. Not everything has to be deep - escapism is fine too.

 

[danlb_2000]

New engineering plans?

Utter nonsense. Stop now.

Shanghai and Florida have different building codes and even a small change to accomodate code could set off a domino effect of other changes.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Honestly I don’t understand the need to not only change the theme but also insist that it’s in keeping with the original theme.

If you're talking the conversation over the past few days, the idea is simply that the guests have been expecting more of the cute animals in spite of Rohde's intentions, from what I can tell. Rohde's idea might have worked for a large land in a theme park, but apparently not for an entire Disney park, judging by Animal Kingdom's poor performance.

So, you're going to have to be flexible.

Rohde might have had better luck designing a zoo , instead of a Nahtazu.

 

[joanna71985]

Let's try this: it seemed very strange for Disney Parks to run a zoo.

I don't think it is. I love seeing the animals at AK

 

[peter11435]

judging by Animal Kingdom's poor performance.

In 2018 and 2019 DAK was the second most visited park in Florida and the third most visited park in the US

 

[Professortango1]

If you're talking the conversation over the past few days, the idea is simply that the guests have been expecting more of the cute animals in spite of Rohde's intentions, from what I can tell. Rohde's idea might have worked for a large land in a theme park, but apparently not for an entire Disney park, judging by Animal Kingdom's poor performance.

So, you're going to have to be flexible.

Rohde might have had better luck designing a zoo , instead of a Nahtazu.

AK is my second favourite WDW park, just under Epcot. If they keep whittling away at Epcot like they have, it might be my last reason to visit WDW rather than just sticking to DLR and overseas parks. I'm sure not traveling to the resort for WDW or DHS.

 

[BlakeW39]

This.

"I have a fever, and the only treatment is... more movie IP in the parks" - Bob Iger (while wearing a leather jacket he tried on for a photo op while touring a Disney recording studio)

Sadly, I think the movie franchise/IP mandate has become so ubiquitous that Disney fans have come to think it is necessary just as TWDC management does. TWDC only uses movie IPs to draw people to the parks, and has done so for so long that now Disney fans think it's the ONLY way to draw people to the parks.

Despite the fact that it came off the heels of Everest, the opening of which saw attendance increase more than many IP based attractions, proportionally. But why make something original and sell it based on quality, when you can make something imitative and sell it based on familiarity?

 

[MisterPenguin]

New engineering plans?

Utter nonsense. Stop now.

Shanghai and Florida have different building codes and even a small change to accomodate code could set off a domino effect of other changes.

Indeed. I doubt Shanghai codes anticipate hurricanes. Not to mention the conversion from metric to imperial.

@DonniePeverley, your concept of 'cloning is easy' is way too naive. I do hope you get a chance to visit Epic Universe when it opens since you claimed it was never going to be built. So, try some humility in that you may not know everything.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Sadly, I think the movie franchise/IP mandate has become so ubiquitous that Disney fans have come to think it is necessary just as TWDC management does.

TWDC doesn't "think it's necessary." It chooses to have an IP mandate because, in general, attractions with known IPs do better. Which makes them more money. They're not just supposing this in a vacuum. It works. Usually. Of course it can't make a horrible attraction good merely because of IP (looking at you, F&F), but it gets people in the door to try it out.

Just about all the other theme parks are doing the same. You think Six Flags paints a coaster blue and red and calls it "Superman" is done in vain?

Consider how so many movie studios are pumping out as many sequels as they can from an established franchise. Or how so many TV studios spin off popular franchises: The CISs, the FBIs, the Law & Order's, etc...

Media analysts mostly agree that franchises rule the roost (usually despairing what that does to Indie films).

Not to mention the synergies of a franchise as consumable content, as merch, as attractions in parks and on cruise ships.

 

[DisneyHead123]

If you're talking the conversation over the past few days, the idea is simply that the guests have been expecting more of the cute animals in spite of Rohde's intentions, from what I can tell. Rohde's idea might have worked for a large land in a theme park, but apparently not for an entire Disney park, judging by Animal Kingdom's poor performance.

So, you're going to have to be flexible.

I am extremely flexible about how the parks are designed. I am not, however, semantically flexible, lol. (I'm not kidding, I'm really not. It's like a thing with me.) Maybe it's a silly point but - cute cartoon animals do not align with the themes stated by the designers of AK. Sure, the theme can change. Sure, maybe people want something different. None of that falsifies the statement in italics. I don't know why that one point can't be ceded in this discussion - like is it so important to rewrite history and say AK at its deepest core is really about popcorn buckets? Why? It's fine to like cute animals and popcorn buckets, no rewrites necessary. There's no need to say that Encanto merch was the underlying theme of AK all along - it's fine to just say we live in a free market and people want Encanto merch.

 

[UNCgolf]

Indeed. I doubt Shanghai codes anticipate hurricanes. Not to mention the conversion from metric to imperial.

@DonniePeverley, your concept of 'cloning is easy' is way too naive. I do hope you get a chance to visit Epic Universe when it opens since you claimed it was never going to be built. So, try some humility in that you may not know everything.

It probably does! They'd just call them typhoons.

Well, actually they'd call them whatever the proper word is in Mandarin, but you get it.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not suggesting this means they could just cut/paste the design without any additional work. I'm surprised anyone thinks that would actually be feasible.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

It probably does! They'd just call them typhoons.

Well, actually they'd call them whatever the proper word is in Mandarin, but you get it.

When we built Shanghai Disney their were codes/design criteria for wind/typhons. Building in Shanghai is like building in London, Hong Kong, or NYC with government restrictions/codes, ect.

Major difference btw building there Florida isn't design criteria, or metric/imperial conversion (outside the US everyone uses metric, doing the conversions for any reputable designer is basically routine.) First your permitting and environmental issues are going to be significantly different for any US domestic project vs. Mainland project. Second, CSCEC although publicly traded on the HK exchange is still 51% state owned. Permits, regulations, red tape, delays are not an issue when the government and the contractor are the same.

It also helps when the project itself is majority owned by the government.

That's of course leaving aside the issue of trying to take a completed design and "fit" it into an existing park.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Indeed. I doubt Shanghai codes anticipate hurricanes. Not to mention the conversion from metric to imperial.

@DonniePeverley, your concept of 'cloning is easy' is way too naive. I do hope you get a chance to visit Epic Universe when it opens since you claimed it was never going to be built. So, try some humility in that you may not know everything.

Your being pedantic.

Of course you have some changes to make for building purposes, etc ... but the ride concept, the engineering in a show building is all there. You can pretty much copy 90% of it.



Harry Potter lands in Beijingi, Tokyo, Orlando, LA all follow the same path - of couse there will be minor alterations for that region etc.

STOP taking everything literally.

 

[DonniePeverley]

So you have plans and drawings for a land in in a park in Shanghai. The rides concept, technology, testing is all done. It's been tested to glowing reviews.

How can anyone argue to try and 'clone' this, with the slight changes in climate, land, etc .... will not be cost effective, as making something brand new, testing, paying huge amounts to the creative intelligence behind new attractions, etc

Only on this forum and just to feel argumentative can anyone argue otherwise.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

So you have plans and drawings for a land in in a park in Shanghai. The rides concept, technology, testing is all done. It's been tested to glowing reviews.

How can anyone argue to try and 'clone' this, with the slight changes in climate, land, etc .... will not be cost effective, as making something brand new, testing, paying huge amounts to the creative intelligence behind new attractions, etc

Only on this forum and just to feel argumentative can anyone argue otherwise.

You do realize Shanghai Disney is not owned by WDW right?

WDW is a minority partner in the project. The majority owner Shanghai Shendi Group, which is a tri-venture state owned investment group. So leaving aside all the work you would need to modify the designs for use in different countries, with different codes, different restrictions (and of course assuming you think the same offering in the Asian market are going to work in the US) legally they are not WDW's plans and drawings to use.

 

[DonniePeverley]

You do realize Shanghai Disney is not owned by WDW right?

WDW is a minority partner in the project. The majority owner Shanghai Shendi Group, which is a tri-venture state owned investment group. So leaving aside all the work you would need to modify the designs for use in different countries, with different codes, different restrictions (and of course assuming you think the same offering in the Asian market are going to work in the US) legally they are not WDW's plans and drawings to use.

Tron was cloned from Shanghai.

Again, why continue to argue pointlessly to make yourself feel a more superior knowledge on the matter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You do realize Shanghai Disney is not owned by WDW right?

WDW is a minority partner in the project. The majority owner Shanghai Shendi Group, which is a tri-venture state owned investment group. So leaving aside all the work you would need to modify the designs for use in different countries, with different codes, different restrictions (and of course assuming you think the same offering in the Asian market are going to work in the US) legally they are not WDW's plans and drawings to use.

The organization of Disney ( Walt Disney World isn’t acting independently or investing in foreign parks) means there are no legal hurdles to using the designs from one park at another, even the ones they do not fully own. The only exception is exclusivity agreements which are the exception, not the rule. Disney owns the designs and their contracts are written as such.