Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[AEfx]

So was D+ actually profitable or can they push D+ loses to other sectors somehow? Can companies play shell games? I'm asking as I don't understand the ins and outs.

The "failure" of streaming was just misinformation and was frankly way too early to call.

As some of us have been saying here for ages, Disney in particular is in the strongest position, second only really to Netflix (and the latter just due to its long-standing as the grand-daddy of the industry).

The reason streaming had such losses for a few years is because every studio WAY overspent on content, making big splashy deals and spending lavishly, in an attempt to compete with each other for subscribers. Like any new business, you have to spend money to make money - and they went full hog on that, and then some.

Streaming is guaranteed monthly revenue, something most studios don't have - Disney being an exception in that they also have the parks. When you do even back of the napkin math, you are talking at least a billion bucks a month reliably coming in from streaming. Now that spending is being reigned in, it absolutely will be profitable and will compete with the parks as the backbone of Disney's finances.

 

[erasure fan1]

Now that spending is being reigned in, it absolutely will be profitable and will compete with the parks as the backbone of Disney's finances.

The problem with streaming is you absolutely need to feed the beast. You can reduce spending, but you can't reduce content. I agree, Disney is in a good spot because they can rely on their legacy content. But I think most who want that content are subscribed already. So you need that fresh turn of quality content to keep the churners onboard.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just saw 2 pictures of the “crowds” today…the posted wait times are a joke

 

[Nunu]

Just saw 2 pictures of the “crowds” today…the posted wait times are a joke

Inflated?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The "failure" of streaming was just misinformation and was frankly way too early to call.

As some of us have been saying here for ages, Disney in particular is in the strongest position, second only really to Netflix (and the latter just due to its long-standing as the grand-daddy of the industry).

The reason streaming had such losses for a few years is because every studio WAY overspent on content, making big splashy deals and spending lavishly, in an attempt to compete with each other for subscribers. Like any new business, you have to spend money to make money - and they went full hog on that, and then some.

Streaming is guaranteed monthly revenue, something most studios don't have - Disney being an exception in that they also have the parks. When you do even back of the napkin math, you are talking at least a billion bucks a month reliably coming in from streaming. Now that spending is being reigned in, it absolutely will be profitable and will compete with the parks as the backbone of Disney's finances.

Not even close

You can only slash costs to be “profitable” for so long.

They’re suffering that in domestic parks right now and streaming will follow.

You can’t sell crap and constantly increase the prices

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Inflated?

From the looks of it…you could put everyone in the zipcode today in the line for space mountain and not get a 50 minute wait

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The problem with streaming is you absolutely need to feed the beast. You can reduce spending, but you can't reduce content. I agree, Disney is in a good spot because they can rely on their legacy content. But I think most who want that content are subscribed already. So you need that fresh turn of quality content to keep the churners onboard.

This is the hole in 5 years of D+ hoopla

They are not gonna be able to maintain subs and ads by slashing content and letting the bread get stale.

The other streams have all found this out. You need more than the rescuers down under

 

[Dranth]

Inflated?

Not according to the Touring Plans app. Looks like wait times by actual people in the park is pretty close to what Disney has with Disney generally being about 5-10ish minutes too long which seems right in line with what they have been doing for years with their official posted wait times.

May not be very busy but it doesn't look any more or less inflated than usual.

 

[adam.adbe]

The problem with streaming is you absolutely need to feed the beast. You can reduce spending, but you can't reduce content. I agree, Disney is in a good spot because they can rely on their legacy content. But I think most who want that content are subscribed already. So you need that fresh turn of quality content to keep the churners onboard.

But this is Disney; they're going to be doing that because: a) they like to release movies, and b) they like to grease the merch feedback loop. Shows fall off of ABS and end up on Hulu. They still need to reach a little, but they're not in the same place as say Apple, or even Netflix in this regard.

 

[Nunu]

Not according to the Touring Plans app. Looks like wait times by actual people in the park is pretty close to what Disney has with Disney generally being about 5-10ish minutes too long which seems right in line with what they have been doing for years with their official posted wait times.

May not be very busy but it doesn't look any more or less inflated than usual.

That's been my experience most of the time. Although there's also been occasions when wait times are inflated by longer than that.

I've gotten pretty good at 'reading' the lines at this point. That helps.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not according to the Touring Plans app. Looks like wait times by actual people in the park is pretty close to what Disney has with Disney generally being about 5-10ish minutes too long which seems right in line with what they have been doing for years with their official posted wait times.

May not be very busy but it doesn't look any more or less inflated than usual.

To be clear…I’m not claiming “inflation”…I’m saying their capacity level is pathetic.

But I’ve been saying that since like 2008 when they were already going on 10 years of no new capacity…
Too much laughter and little thought

 

[AEfx]

The problem with streaming is you absolutely need to feed the beast. You can reduce spending, but you can't reduce content. I agree, Disney is in a good spot because they can rely on their legacy content. But I think most who want that content are subscribed already. So you need that fresh turn of quality content to keep the churners onboard.

Of course you do - content costs aren't going away. But the lavish over-spending on things that fans don't really want or no one really asked for is where Disney has made the errors, and they seem to be figuring that out.

Disney is also in a strong position because of that library, and the fact...it's Disney. They have a large portion of the audience who are people with kids who pretty much see this as a requirement (even if it's just for them to watch Frozen once a week). They also don't seem to be as vulnerable to churn in general - the only real subscriber loss so far has been because of the shifting that happened over in India. And while Marvel and Star Wars fans online are quite agitated about everything, almost all the time, they still are a cornerstone that isn't going away, even if they like to complain a lot about it.

Streaming is not going anywhere - it's a guaranteed revenue stream, and it's just going to become more and more important to the company. The industry itself is just growing out of its infancy, and like any new venture, it's going to have some issues.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course you do - content costs aren't going away. But the lavish over-spending on things that fans don't really want or no one really asked for is where Disney has made the errors, and they seem to be figuring that out.

Disney is also in a strong position because of that library, and the fact...it's Disney. They have a large portion of the audience who are people with kids who pretty much see this as a requirement (even if it's just for them to watch Frozen once a week). They also don't seem to be as vulnerable to churn in general - the only real subscriber loss so far has been because of the shifting that happened over in India. And while Marvel and Star Wars fans online are quite agitated about everything, almost all the time, they still are a cornerstone that isn't going away, even if they like to complain a lot about it.

Streaming is not going anywhere - it's a guaranteed revenue stream, and it's just going to become more and more important to the company. The industry itself is just growing out of its infancy, and like any new venture, it's going to have some issues.

I think the problem as they inch towards “profitability”…they had to shut a lot of the studios down - for various reasons - over 5 years to do it.

And some point…you can’t cut costs.

Especially in a year or two when the market will say: “where’s our game of thrones? Or where’s our Bridgerton? Or Crown?”

I don’t think the acolyte is gonna cut it

 

[erasure fan1]

Streaming is not going anywhere - it's a guaranteed revenue stream, and it's just going to become more and more important to the company. The industry itself is just growing out of its infancy, and like any new venture, it's going to have some issues.

For sure, it isn't going anywhere. Disney is in a good spot because they are more equipped than most to absorb the losses. I think there will be some consolidation in the space and that will only help Disney. It's also not going anywhere anytime soon because there's no place to go. This is the model the studios wanted. They killed off the other revenue streams so they have no choice but to make it work.

 

[Tha Realest]

I think the problem as they inch towards “profitability”…they had to shut a lot of the studios down - for various reasons - over 5 years to do it.

And some point…you can’t cut costs.

Especially in a year or two when the market will say: “where’s our game of thrones? Or where’s our Bridgerton? Or Crown?”

I don’t think the acolyte is gonna cut it

I am excited to see how well an original Star Wars property does that doesn’t get to use the original films, the sequels, or Clone Wars /Rebels as a nostalgia crutch.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am excited to see how well an original Star Wars property does that doesn’t get to use the original films, the sequels, or Clone Wars /Rebels as a nostalgia crutch.

I’ll watch…but the trailer looks “not so good”…looks like a KK special

 

[AEfx]

And some point…you can’t cut costs.

Especially in a year or two when the market will say: “where’s our game of thrones? Or where’s our Bridgerton? Or Crown?”

True, but here's the secret weapon of streaming - they know exactly their viewership, to the literal second - they know exactly where people bail on things, exactly what they watch multiple times, etc. It is basically a dream scenario of market data so they can choose to spend money on the things people actually want to watch - versus the "let's spend an obscene amount of money and throw all kinds of crap at the wall to see what sticks" approach all new streamers took out of the gate.

That's why Disney really is the best bet right now - because they aren't relying on just their own original content. They do need that, and can spread that out a bit due to the varied audience - the kids always have all the animated stuff (all I hear from people is how their kids get latched on to some Disney/Pixar movie or another and watch it over and over LOL), and then they can add in Star Wars/Marvel content for the rest of the family (and per Iger's latest statements, 2 Marvel shows a year should be plenty). But on top of that - they have Disney and Fox creating new content for them that will be "new to the service".

I honestly think in another few years, Disney+ is going to be much more of a lean mean profit machine. Certainly more so than the Paramount+ and Peacocks of the world, not to mention the MGM+ and AMC+ and so on.

 

[LSLS]

Disney CEO Bob Iger says that theme park demand is softening from peak post-COVID travel​

Disney CEO Bob Iger says that theme park demand is softening from peak post-COVID travel

Disney CEO Bob Iger says that theme park demand is softening from peak post-COVID travel

www.wdwmagic.com

What a load of nonsense. I've gone every September 16th for 15 years, and it looked busier this year than ever before. That's way more evidence than whatever his "data" is.

 

[GhostHost1000]

To be clear…I’m not claiming “inflation”…I’m saying their capacity level is pathetic.

But I’ve been saying that since like 2008 when they were already going on 10 years of no new capacity…
Too much laughter and little thought

No worries if we are lucky we may have a new (additional) attraction by 2030

In the meantime, enjoy Tiana’s broccoli mountain, the country bears pc update, and taking big thunder out of the mix. Oh they may add a few lights to Peter Pan too. Of course ticket prices will go up to help pay for it though.

Epic is toast!

 

[James Alucobond]

What a load of nonsense. I've gone every September 16th for 15 years, and it looked busier this year than ever before. That's way more evidence than whatever his "data" is.

Not totally sure if serious, so excuse me if not, but I think that’s more a function of vacation habits of the general public having shifted. Periods that were previously slower are now heavier, and periods that were previously heavier (minus certain holidays) are now slower. A greater proportion of the attendance mix is now “Disney adults” who have more or less complete freedom in terms of when they can travel, and even for families with children, fewer have qualms about taking them out of school (or some have schools with nontraditional schedules). Additionally, perceived attendance can definitely be affected by virtual queuing and throttling of attraction capacity.