strollers, strollers, strollers

[Raidermatt]

I'm curious as to your hierarchy of importance as to who should get the right of way on the paths.

And I can only assume that emergency personnel trumps cast as to path access and cast trumps picture takers, right?
So under your theory picture takers are more important than common path travelers. Ok fair enough.............but are common path travelers the lowest? Or is there another group like those who jumped the fence to enter or used some kind of fraud to enter the parks? and where do vloggers fit on the list of importance on who deserves path space.

It's pretty critical to know one's place on the paths so I'm just trying to get a general understanding as to my position. (I really hope I'm higher than vlogger but if I'm not then I just have to man up and deal with it)

You're the one trying to create the right of way hierarchy, which is complete folly.

It's Disney World. People walk and people take photos. That's not going to change and neither has an inherent right to treat the other like they are committing a misdemeanor. Courteousness means sometimes you pause to let somebody take a photo and sometimes you pause taking a photo to let somebody walk by.

Or you can be a jackwad.

It's not about trying to control the behavior of tens of thousands of people. Its about being the person you want to be. If that's a jackwad, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That was basically my point. Should we keep children inside doing nothing til
They can recall anything? Its such a silly concept for anyone to suggest that.

OK, so then at least admit that you are taking them out of their comfortable environment, subjecting them to heat that they can do nothing about, huge numbers of giant (to them) humans, massive exposure to sight, sounds and reactions (stimuli) that they don't understand or have a sense of what they are witnessing, for YOUR entertainment. They are getting nothing out of it, you are. You understand what a Disney Park is, they have no idea. I won't say it is detrimental in anyway but for heavens sake at least admit that they are really getting nothing at all out of it except, perhaps, sunburn and heat exhaustion.

So we did other things locally. No, we didn't sit in the house doing nothing we took short trips, went to the playground, took them places they loved to go like Mickey D's occasionally. We saved the big stuff for when they were old enough to appreciate it themselves and didn't require that we make it a work trip for ourselves in the process.

I understand that this stuff is a personal decision and I don't mean to imply that I know it might be harmful in to a child in anyway, but my thoughts are the reason why I felt it better to wait until it was a real family adventure that we could share and not pretend that they were getting more positive experiences then negative.

 

[Angel Ariel]

OK, so then at least admit that you are taking them out of their comfortable environment, subjecting them to heat that they can do nothing about, huge numbers of giant (to them) humans, massive exposure to sight, sounds and reactions (stimuli) that they don't understand or have a sense of what they are witnessing, for YOUR entertainment. They are getting nothing out of it, you are. You understand what a Disney Park is, they have no idea. I won't say it is detrimental in anyway but for heavens sake at least admit that they are really getting nothing at all out of it except, perhaps, sunburn and heat exhaustion.

So we did other things locally. No, we didn't sit in the house doing nothing we took short trips, went to the playground, took them places they loved to go like Mickey D's occasionally. We saved the big stuff for when they were old enough to appreciate it themselves and didn't require that we make it a work trip for ourselves in the process.

I understand that this stuff is a personal decision and I don't mean to imply that I know it might be harmful in to a child in anyway, but my thoughts are the reason why I felt it better to wait until it was a real family adventure that we could share and not pretend that they were getting more positive experiences then negative.

It’s a huge leap to assume it’s a more negative than positive experience for the infant. I’ll absolutely own that we went for ourselves, and I said as much initially, but no I won’t agree that it was a negative experience for her. She may not remember it, but it wasn’t physically or mentally harmful in any way.

 

[BobPar]

OK, so then at least admit that you are taking them out of their comfortable environment, subjecting them to heat that they can do nothing about, huge numbers of giant (to them) humans, massive exposure to sight, sounds and reactions (stimuli) that they don't understand or have a sense of what they are witnessing, for YOUR entertainment. They are getting nothing out of it, you are. You understand what a Disney Park is, they have no idea. I won't say it is detrimental in anyway but for heavens sake at least admit that they are really getting nothing at all out of it except, perhaps, sunburn and heat exhaustion.

So we did other things locally. No, we didn't sit in the house doing nothing we took short trips, went to the playground, took them places they loved to go like Mickey D's occasionally. We saved the big stuff for when they were old enough to appreciate it themselves and didn't require that we make it a work trip for ourselves in the process.

I understand that this stuff is a personal decision and I don't mean to imply that I know it might be harmful in to a child in anyway, but my thoughts are the reason why I felt it better to wait until it was a real family adventure that we could share and not pretend that they were getting more positive experiences then negative.

Im not sure what you are getting at or implying but we never sheltered our child or kept her inside. Heck i had her on a plane less than 5 months old to Vegas to surprise family. We were not parents who were worried or kept her away from other kids or adults etc or only “allowed” certain people to see her at an infant age.

 

[jloucks]

The general idea is to be kind (even though you don't have to be) and to treat others the way you would like to be treated (without having to figure out where you stand in the hierarchy of importance on the paths). Try "manning up" instead of worrying about who comes first.

That is the "Golden Rule", and it does not apply in this situation as some of us don't expect everyone else to submit to our photo taking activities.

It fails entirely when you try to combine it with unobtrusive behavior and obtrusive behavior. Buuuuuttt.....

What applies here is the "Platinum Rule", which is where you treat others how they want to be treated. It is much more difficult to achieve and is the pinnacle of kind and considerate behavior.

And here is the thing, the Platinum rule applies to both persons in a scenario. The person wanting to take the picture should think about the persons walking around in pain trying to get from point a to point b. They don't tho.

Ha! Oddly enough, this whole scenario, for me, supports alcohol in the parks. At hour 14, and the same beer number, I am almost certainly not only going to stop, but also offer to take the photo for you, so you can be in it.

Yea, I know, a lot of words that you have heard me say before. I figure I am doing my part for the board and generating some debatable content for the newbs this fine, chilly, Wednesday mornin'.

 

[jloucks]

Great idea!

On a completely unrelated note, I wonder why there are more fistfights in the parks these days.

That is actually a really good question.

I did a little research on this before posting, and here is what the articles said in general....

Post Covid park fighting has spiked everywhere. This is almost entirely because of the powder keg environment created at the parks with long lines for everything and crowded conditions everywhere.

It is almost always a park customer exhibiting selfish borish behavior that another customer cannot abide any longer.

*boom*

The take away here should be that acting like a lit match around powder kegs is a bad idea. Be very courteous to others at the park. Do no cut in line. Do not push or shove. Do not do anything at all that unfairly inconveniences others at the sole benefit of your self or your party.

In other words, don't be a tool.

And, like has been said multiple times before, the powder keg conditions are 100% the fault of the Amusement Parks (and cruise lines btw.) Sure, we can blame the people for behaving like animals, but maybe, just maybe, if the parks stopped treating them/us like animals it would stop the problems.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It’s a huge leap to assume it’s a more negative than positive experience for the infant. I’ll absolutely own that we went for ourselves, and I said as much initially, but no I won’t agree that it was a negative experience for her. She may not remember it, but it wasn’t physically or mentally harmful in any way.

And I think it is a huge leap to assume it's any kind of experience for an infant. So we will have to agree to disagree because I don't think it is positive or negative and I made that clear that the things I listed were what my intellect, how ever lacking as it probably is, were thoughts that I have about it. I can assure you at age 74 I am not about to attempt another round of parenthood to test my theory. I don't think that my kids were harmed by the delay, I know I wasn't harmed by waiting to go, in fact, I feel that it made my visit with older children more enhanced. Others mileage may vary.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And I think it is a huge leap to assume it's any kind of experience for an infant. So we will have to agree to disagree because I don't think it is positive or negative and I made that clear that the things I listed were what my intellect, how ever lacking as it probably is, were thoughts that I have about it. I can assure you at age 74 I am not about to attempt another round of parenthood to test my theory.

I agree that it's likely not positive or negative - but sunburn and heat stroke would be negative and harmful...definitely not neutral

 

[Goofyernmost]

Im not sure what you are getting at or implying but we never sheltered our child or kept her inside. Heck i had her on a plane less than 5 months old to Vegas to surprise family. We were not parents who were worried or kept her away from other kids or adults etc or only “allowed” certain people to see her at an infant age.

You have missed my point completely... I never kept my kids inside or sheltered them from anything but harm they might get into by themselves. We went places, we did things even if it wasn't any more then riding up and down 7 or 8 floors of escalators at Eaton's in Montreal. We didn't just go to those places for ourselves and taking an infant anywhere before they are capable of understanding any abstract thought is something you are doing only for you. If for you the joy of Disney is watching how your toddler reacts to bright lights that is fine with me. Personally I would stay home and wave a flashlight because all they are reacting to is light, not show. My joy was my strong love of WDW and I loved that I could share that experience with my kids at the time that they knew what they were seeing and experiencing and knew the difference between a flashlight and a light show. A WDW vacation is expensive no matter when you take it. Between the travel expense, the hotel expense and meals you have spent a fortune before you even paid for the admission ticket. I want a level of enjoyment equal to the money spent on it. If taking an infant to WDW brings you that, they go for it. That is not what works for me.

Everything I have said in these posts are the way that I see or saw my relationship with my kids. I never said anyone was wrong for doing whatever they wanted to do along those lines. I just can't understand why so many cannot just admit that they are doing it for their own satisfaction and not passing along the experience as something special to an infant. Infants will have the sweetest smile and only be loading their diapers. You cannot read a infant child's level of interest by looking at their faces.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree that it's likely not positive or negative - but sunburn and heat stroke would be negative and harmful...definitely not neutral

True and I didn't say that it was a problem for every child, but I have seen it. An infant can't tell you what they are feeling. They cry and we always assume they are hungry until the red comes out then parents discover it. Don't forget parents are easily distracted at WDW too. I'm sure that doesn't apply to you, but I just used it as an example. However, if the common reaction is not positive or negative then as far as an infant is concerned negative is the only other response. There is no sense of reason with a baby. They are either comfortable or their not. It is simple really. They are not impressed or depressed. If they are not feeling pain, then they are feeling good. We tend to forget that as adults because we always make things more complex.

 

[BobPar]

You have missed my point completely... I never kept my kids inside or sheltered them from anything but harm they might get into by themselves. We went places, we did things even if it wasn't any more then riding up and down 7 or 8 floors of escalators at Eaton's in Montreal. We didn't just go to those places for ourselves and taking an infant anywhere before they are capable of understanding any abstract thought is something you are doing only for you. If for you the joy of Disney is watching how your toddler reacts to bright lights that is fine with me. Personally I would stay home and wave a flashlight because all they are reacting to is light, not show. My joy was my strong love of WDW and I loved that I could share that experience with my kids at the time that they knew what they were seeing and experiencing and knew the difference between a flashlight and a light show. A WDW vacation is expensive no matter when you take it. Between the travel expense, the hotel expense and meals you have spent a fortune before you even paid for the admission ticket. I want a level of enjoyment equal to the money spent on it. If taking an infant to WDW brings you that, they go for it. That is not what works for me.

Everything I have said in these posts are the way that I see or saw my relationship with my kids. I never said anyone was wrong for doing whatever they wanted to do along those lines. I just can't understand why so many cannot just admit that they are doing it for their own satisfaction and not passing along the experience as something special to an infant. Infants will have the sweetest smile and only be loading their diapers. You cannot read a infant child's level of interest by looking at their faces.

We can go back and forth all we want on this… but ill say this my daughter is 9 and she still loves watching videos and looking at pics of her trips when she was approaching 1 and 2.

 

[BobPar]

You have missed my point completely... I never kept my kids inside or sheltered them from anything but harm they might get into by themselves. We went places, we did things even if it wasn't any more then riding up and down 7 or 8 floors of escalators at Eaton's in Montreal. We didn't just go to those places for ourselves and taking an infant anywhere before they are capable of understanding any abstract thought is something you are doing only for you. If for you the joy of Disney is watching how your toddler reacts to bright lights that is fine with me. Personally I would stay home and wave a flashlight because all they are reacting to is light, not show. My joy was my strong love of WDW and I loved that I could share that experience with my kids at the time that they knew what they were seeing and experiencing and knew the difference between a flashlight and a light show. A WDW vacation is expensive no matter when you take it. Between the travel expense, the hotel expense and meals you have spent a fortune before you even paid for the admission ticket. I want a level of enjoyment equal to the money spent on it. If taking an infant to WDW brings you that, they go for it. That is not what works for me.

Everything I have said in these posts are the way that I see or saw my relationship with my kids. I never said anyone was wrong for doing whatever they wanted to do along those lines. I just can't understand why so many cannot just admit that they are doing it for their own satisfaction and not passing along the experience as something special to an infant. Infants will have the sweetest smile and only be loading their diapers. You cannot read a infant child's level of interest by looking at their faces.

Also. Children 2 and under are free flights as well…

 

[DisDork2002]

Treat parents who take their infants to Disney World the way they want to be treated.

Treat parents who don't take their infants to Disney World the way they want to be treated.

Everybody wins.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Treat parents who take their infants to Disney World the way they want to be treated.

Treat parents who don't take their infants to Disney World the way they want to be treated.

Everybody wins.

Exactly - Let’s just universally be kind and considerate of others

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

That is actually a really good question.

I did a little research on this before posting, and here is what the articles said in general....

Post Covid park fighting has spiked everywhere. This is almost entirely because of the powder keg environment created at the parks with long lines for everything and crowded conditions everywhere.

It is almost always a park customer exhibiting selfish borish behavior that another customer cannot abide any longer.

*boom*

The take away here should be that acting like a lit match around powder kegs is a bad idea. Be very courteous to others at the park. Do no cut in line. Do not push or shove. Do not do anything at all that unfairly inconveniences others at the sole benefit of your self or your party.

In other words, don't be a tool.

And, like has been said multiple times before, the powder keg conditions are 100% the fault of the Amusement Parks (and cruise lines btw.) Sure, we can blame the people for behaving like animals, but maybe, just maybe, if the parks stopped treating them/us like animals it would stop the problems.

I agree with all that. I think we need to add in the high cost of just walking through the gate, let alone food, PH's, paying for rides that might break down before we ride, and the frustration with D+ in general, and overcrowding. It's all a mix for certain entitled people to just explode, and very sad that this happens at a park with children around.

 

[Mr Mindcrime]

Wheeled objects in the parks is the next big boiling point I see happening

I'm sitting on a plane at the moment (waiting to taxi) and just observed two large strollers making their way on board. The number and size of strollers getting on planes these days is getting crazy too. We sure didn't travel that way when our kids were younger.....

 

[Goofyernmost]

We can go back and forth all we want on this… but ill say this my daughter is 9 and she still loves watching videos and looking at pics of her trips when she was approaching 1 and 2.

Yea, enjoying the place via video is tops. But, it doesn't change what I said and the reason why I didn't do that. You are also fine with doing it whatever way worked for you, which I think I said more then once during this back and forth. I guess I'll have to say that I'm not sure how watching videos of having fun with no real memory of it, isn't less then optimum. But different strokes for different folks.

 

[Raidermatt]

That is the "Golden Rule", and it does not apply in this situation as some of us don't expect everyone else to submit to our photo taking activities.

It fails entirely when you try to combine it with unobtrusive behavior and obtrusive behavior. Buuuuuttt.....

What applies here is the "Platinum Rule", which is where you treat others how they want to be treated. It is much more difficult to achieve and is the pinnacle of kind and considerate behavior.

And here is the thing, the Platinum rule applies to both persons in a scenario. The person wanting to take the picture should think about the persons walking around in pain trying to get from point a to point b. They don't tho.

Ha! Oddly enough, this whole scenario, for me, supports alcohol in the parks. At hour 14, and the same beer number, I am almost certainly not only going to stop, but also offer to take the photo for you, so you can be in it.

Yea, I know, a lot of words that you have heard me say before. I figure I am doing my part for the board and generating some debatable content for the newbs this fine, chilly, Wednesday mornin'.

Truthfully, both have flaws. It's not really possible to guess how another person wants to be treated. So I guess we need to use the Vibranium Rule. Treat others as if they want you to defer to their every want and whim.

Yes, facetious, but still true. Honestly, the Golden Rule would eliminate 99% of the issues. The real issue is not that many apply the wrong standard to the expectations of others (the guy who consciously disrupts others aside), the problem is most are applying no standard to the expectations of others. They don't ask themselves how the other person would feel, they don't even consider it at all.

So really, applying ANY thought at all to these situations would alleviate most of the problems.

On the alcohol, I wish I could agree with you. But unfortunately you are the exception. It is far more likely to exacerbate these types of issues that it is to diffuse them.

In other words, don't be a tool.

And, like has been said multiple times before, the powder keg conditions are 100% the fault of the Amusement Parks (and cruise lines btw.) Sure, we can blame the people for behaving like animals, but maybe, just maybe, if the parks stopped treating them/us like animals it would stop the problems.

True on both counts. The conditions are going to result in more problems, but we can still usually make sure we aren't involved in them.

 

[_caleb]

Think the strollers are bad? Just wait until Disney deploys the robot sherpas they’ve developed.

Seriously.

 

[mysto]

Or you can be a jackwad.

Thank you! I am what I am, no sense fighting it.

Can I get a pre-release version of the Robot Sherpa (tm)? I'll pay anything.