Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

I never dismissed anything, I’m pointing out that the largest group (percentage) of unvaccinated right now are the poor. These people deserve to be vaccinated like everyone else and instead their existence is denied and they’re laughed at. Your agenda is to get as many people or all people vaccinated at whatever cost, “nudging” them as you say, why ignore the hardest hit and most marginalized communities? Communities that don’t even have adequate access to medical attention? They shouldn’t be left behind for any reason, but I will entertain any reason that you can give me.

I did like your comment about 6 people being homeless though.

they’re not being left behind. There is no cost to getting the vaccine. It doesn’t require employment. It can be done at a variety of places. Local governments have sent teams to specifically go to places like tent cities and streets with a notable homeless population to offer vaccination. They’re not the ones showing up to workplaces contagious. They’re not the ones telling people nonsense on Facebook. You’re trying to scapegoat a small group of people genuinely in an awful place for reasons you don‘t seem to be explaining clearly.

 

[EpcoTim]

they’re not being left behind. There is no cost to getting the vaccine. It doesn’t require employment. It can be done at a variety of places. Local governments have sent teams to specifically go to places like tent cities and streets with a notable homeless population to offer vaccination. They’re not the ones showing up to workplaces contagious. They’re not the ones telling people nonsense on Facebook. You’re trying to scapegoat a small group of people genuinely in an awful place for reasons you don‘t seem to be explaining clearly.

I’m not “scapegoating” anything. I’m trying to point out that these people deserve the attention everyone else does, the numbers show they aren’t getting it.

 

[October82]

I’m not “scapegoating” anything. I’m trying to point out that these people deserve the attention everyone else does, the numbers show they aren’t getting it.

I think people are confused because its not clear what the implication is. The Federal government has limited power to implement a vaccine mandate. Workplace rules aren't in place of some other policy that creates a mandate for the homeless, it's not clear that the federal government has the power to implement a mandate for those in extreme poverty. That's federalism, not bad policy.

 

[GoofGoof]

I never dismissed anything, I’m pointing out that the largest group (percentage) of unvaccinated right now are the poor. These people deserve to be vaccinated like everyone else and instead their existence is denied and they’re laughed at. Your agenda is to get as many people or all people vaccinated at whatever cost, “nudging” them as you say, why ignore the hardest hit and most marginalized communities? Communities that don’t even have adequate access to medical attention? They shouldn’t be left behind for any reason, but I will entertain any reason that you can give me.

I did like your comment about 6 people being homeless though.

Wait, I thought you said they weren’t homeless…now I’m confused

I don‘t understand what you are trying to say to be honest. How does an OSHA mandate on employers with 100+ workers negatively impact poor people who don’t work? If that mandate didn’t happen they would be no better and no worse off. It has no impact on someone who doesn’t work. I’m not sure why you think nothing is being done to get them vaccinated. There are plenty of things being done.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m not “scapegoating” anything. I’m trying to point out that these people deserve the attention everyone else does, the numbers show they aren’t getting it.

They’re not getting the same level of attention because they’re not the problem right now. That doesn’t mean there are not efforts that have been underway since the beginning.

 

[EpcoTim]

Wait, I thought you said they weren’t homeless…now I’m confused

I don‘t understand what you are trying to say to be honest. How does an OSHA mandate on employers with 100+ workers negatively impact poor people who don’t work? If that mandate didn’t happen they would be no better and no worse off. It has no impact on someone who doesn’t work. I’m not sure why you think nothing is being done to get them vaccinated. There are plenty of things being done.

What I’m saying is there is all this negativity and hate and spite for the anti-Vaxx, why not turn that into compassion and empathy and realize that there is an entire population that has lower Vaxx rates then everyone else and they aren’t being talked about, they aren’t being noticed. Why not help them? Will they not get you to whatever % you’re looking for fast enough? The virus could run rampant through these communities for much longer than the general population and we’d never hear about it.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think people are confused because its not clear what the implication is. The Federal government has limited power to implement a vaccine mandate. Workplace rules aren't in place of some other policy that creates a mandate for the homeless, it's not clear that the federal government has the power to implement a mandate for those in extreme poverty. That's federalism, not bad policy.

Exactly what I’ve been trying to say. I’m all for any effort to get more people vaccinated. I haven’t heard of a plan that would survive legal challenges to address that particular problem. The only possibility is to have all 50 states independently mandate vaccines for all citizens. That’s just simply not going to happen.

 

[GoofGoof]

What I’m saying is there is all this negativity and hate and spite for the anti-Vaxx, why not turn that into compassion and empathy and realize that there is an entire population that has lower Vaxx rates then everyone else and they aren’t being talked about, they aren’t being noticed. Why not help them? Will they not get you to whatever % you’re looking for fast enough? The virus could run rampant through these communities for much longer than the general population and we’d never hear about it.

If every homeless person or person with no job was vaccinated we still wouldn’t reach a high enough percentage. To me this phase of the vaccination rollout isn’t at all punitive. You seem to view it as punishing one group and letting another off the hook. Getting everyone vaccinated is the goal (100% - even though we won’t get there). Under the authority granted by Congress to OSHA there can be a rule implemented that protects 100M workers. Not all of them will choose vaccination but most will and that’s a big win. Efforts will continue to reach everyone else. Like every vaccination campaign throughout history there will need to be additional effort to reach certain communities but there’s no magic bullet to reach these communities. Unlike in the past, at least cost of the vaccine isn’t an issue this time around but it takes time and grass roots efforts to reach everyone.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Exactly what I’ve been trying to say. I’m all for any effort to get more people vaccinated. I haven’t heard of a plan that would survive legal challenges to address that particular problem. The only possibility is to have all 50 states independently mandate vaccines for all citizens. That’s just simply not going to happen.

As winter comes, we'll be screwed up to have huge COVID-19 surge coming up by holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas, we're doomed now. @GoofGoof

 

[Chi84]

I don‘t understand what you are trying to say to be honest.

There’s a reason for that. I tried to follow but the indignation keeps changing.

 

[EpcoTim]

If every homeless person or person with no job was vaccinated we still wouldn’t reach a high enough percentage. To me this phase of the vaccination rollout isn’t at all punitive. You seem to view it as punishing one group and letting another off the hook. Getting everyone vaccinated is the goal (100% - even though we won’t get there). Under the authority granted by Congress to OSHA there can be a rule implemented that protects 100M workers. Not all of them will choose vaccination but most will and that’s a big win. Efforts will continue to reach everyone else. Like every vaccination campaign throughout history there will need to be additional effort to reach certain communities but there’s no magic bullet to reach these communities. Unlike in the past, at least cost of the vaccine isn’t an issue this time around but it takes time and grass roots efforts to reach everyone.

I’m not viewing it that way at all and I’m ignoring any gov’t intervention right now because they can’t seem to get anything right.

The anti-Vaxx have dug in their heels and so have the pro-vaxx. It’s a standstill and that shows no signs of changing anytime soon. It’s wasted words right now trying to convince either side of anything. Why not take that energy and try to help the less fortunate instead of laughing at them and denying their plight? I’m familiar with the outreach programs in Chicago and Detroit and they were pathetic. Chicago basically gave up and Detroit never had a clear plan from the get-go. The breakdown by income level proves this.

 

[Timmay]

Exactly what I’ve been trying to say. I’m all for any effort to get more people vaccinated. I haven’t heard of a plan that would survive legal challenges to address that particular problem. The only possibility is to have all 50 states independently mandate vaccines for all citizens. That’s just simply not going to happen.

Then perhaps counties and cities should step up and get some mandates going. These two counties have a high POC population, and they definitely aren’t “right-wing” hotbeds. The numbers are sad.

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m not viewing it that way at all and I’m ignoring any gov’t intervention right now because they can’t seem to get anything right.

The anti-Vaxx have dug in their heels and so have the pro-vaxx. It’s a standstill and that shows no signs of changing anytime soon. It’s wasted words right now trying to convince either side of anything. Why not take that energy and try to help the less fortunate instead of laughing at them and denying their plight? I’m familiar with the outreach programs in Chicago and Detroit and they were pathetic. Chicago basically gave up and Detroit never had a clear plan from the get-go. The breakdown by income level proves this.

I don’t disagree that nobody is going to change their mind. That’s why the plan has changed to mandates and passports. If people don’t want to get vaccinated they won’t get vaccinated, but more and more they will have less places they can work and less places they can go with large crowds. So it‘s all a choice but every choice comes with consequences.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Here is Chicago's zip code map.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hey, remember when NY and NJ had the most COVID deaths because of the initial giant wave thru nursing homes?

Well, Mississippi is now the state with the most deaths per capita. And Louisiana has bumped New York out of third place.

Florida use to be way down on this list.

But this is for all time. What about recent trends?...

Florida's number one at almost three times the national average.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m not viewing it that way at all and I’m ignoring any gov’t intervention right now because they can’t seem to get anything right.

The anti-Vaxx have dug in their heels and so have the pro-vaxx. It’s a standstill and that shows no signs of changing anytime soon. It’s wasted words right now trying to convince either side of anything. Why not take that energy and try to help the less fortunate instead of laughing at them and denying their plight? I’m familiar with the outreach programs in Chicago and Detroit and they were pathetic. Chicago basically gave up and Detroit never had a clear plan from the get-go. The breakdown by income level proves this.

That’s oddly convenient. Its easy to say nothing is being done when you admit to ignoring what is being done. It also means you are missing things like the directive for OSHA to create a rule requiring paid time off for vaccination. But ultimately you are contradicting yourself because regardless of economic status people have agency, so if they have chosen to not get vaccinated then any efforts to reach them will involve some level of changing their mind.

 

[GoofGoof]

Then perhaps counties and cities should step up and get some mandates going. These two counties have a high POC population, and they definitely aren’t “right-wing” hotbeds. The numbers are sad.

View attachment 587492View attachment 587493

None of these people you reference work? Do they go to bars or ballgames or theme parks or fly somewhere for vacation? Do they attend other large group gatherings? Employer mandates combined with vaccine passports would go a long way in most counties, including the ones you are pointing out?

 

[EpcoTim]

That’s oddly convenient. Its easy to say nothing is being done when you admit to ignoring what is being done. It also means you are missing things like the directive for OSHA to create a rule requiring paid time off for vaccination. But ultimately you are contradicting yourself because regardless of economic status people have agency, so if they have chosen to not get vaccinated then any efforts to reach them will involve some level of changing their mind.

How is that convenient? The OSHA rule hasn’t come to pass and there is no guarantee it will and if it does, when? How soon? Will it be challenged?

I’m not contradicting myself because the people I speak of have not received the attention the true anti-vaxx community has. I’m also not ignoring what has been done, I’m just going over the results and outcome of previous attempts, not contemplating what could happen.

 

[GoofGoof]

How is that convenient? The OSHA rule hasn’t come to pass and there is no guarantee it will and if it does, when? How soon? Will it be challenged?

I’m not contradicting myself because the people I speak of have not received the attention the true anti-vaxx community has. I’m also not ignoring what has been done, I’m just going over the results and outcome of previous attempts, not contemplating what could happen.

The OSHA rule will only helps companies but we have already seen the positive results of employer mandates with corporations that were first movers and mandated vaccination on their own. Vaccine rates went way up and once the fear of losing workers to competitors is removed a lot more employers will be eager to adopt similar policies.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How is that convenient? The OSHA rule hasn’t come to pass and there is no guarantee it will and if it does, when? How soon? Will it be challenged?

I’m not contradicting myself because the people I speak of have not received the attention the true anti-vaxx community has. I’m also not ignoring what has been done, I’m just going over the results and outcome of previous attempts, not contemplating what could happen.

It’s convenient because you are ignoring what is being done so you can claim nothing is being done.

They haven’t received the attention because they are not the problem.

The OSHA rule addresses those who want to be vaccinated but work hours that make it difficult to get vaccinated and/or are concerned about missing work to get vaccinated. Yes, it may get challenged, but people worried about lost income are best served by guaranteeing that income.

What do you want done? More pop up clinics? More transit offered? What?