Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We will see what happens. We know at least for WDW the new APs go on sale tomorrow Sept. 8. so let's see if we see more locals showing up.

In any event, it will be fun to watch how this whole Genie, Genie + and Lighting Lane works out. Disney will be quick to change things as needed (for their shareholders, that is).

Locals were a minor piece of the puzzle in the first place and that was before these changes/price jumps.

locals don’t fill the parks

 

[jamos140]

This cluster won’t ruin the 50th. But as for shortly after…

For the east coast anyway.

Well I'm there on Oct 23-31 so this sounds like I will get to witness the carnage 1st hand......

 

[MisterPenguin]

Imagine a park with two rides and 1,000 guests who want to ride them. Thats 500 people at a time in line at each ride. Now imagine the same number guests with four rides: 250 people at a time in line at each ride.

Assume (for the sake of simplicity) all rides have the same capacity/wait time per person and that I'm always at the end of the line. in scenario one, I have to wait for 1,000 ahead of me (500 x 2) and ride two rides. In scenario two, I still have to wait for 1,000 people in front of me (250 x 4) so end up waiting the same amount of time in total, but I've ridden four rides instead of two.

More rides may not decrease total wait time (assuming everyone wants to ride every single ride) but it decreases wait time at each ride so more rides can be ridden in the same amount of time.

Or am I missing something?

Two new rides?!!

<an extra 5,000 people show up>

 

[MisterPenguin]

You can most certainly increase capacity by making a roller coaster longer.

What do you mean by 'capacity'?

If we're measuring People Per Hour, let's say a short coaster launches a train with 100 people every minute. Then that is 6,000 PPH.

Now, let's lengthen the track so that there are three times as many trains running on the tracks at the same time. Does that increase capacity in terms of PPH?

Not if they still launch one train every minute. A longer track does not necessarily increase the tempo of launches. The capacity will still be 6,000 PH.

Now, if they add more sections/blocks that are shorter, then maybe they could increase the rate of launches and increase PPH capacity.

The better way to increase capacity is with a second or third track which most definitely doubles or triples PPH capacity (and allows for the attraction to continue to handle guests if one track goes down).

Lengthening coasters increases guest satisfaction, but doesn't necessarily increase PPH thorughput.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Looks like everyone’s at Universal. Oh, well. Disney better raise their prices more to take the most advantage of their base who WILL show up.

 

[jpinkc]

What do you mean by 'capacity'?

If we're measuring People Per Hour, let's say a short coaster launches a train with 100 people every minute. Then that is 6,000 PPH.

Now, let's lengthen the track so that there are three times as many trains running on the tracks at the same time. Does that increase capacity in terms of PPH?

Not if they still launch one train every minute. A longer track does not necessarily increase the tempo of launches. The capacity will still be 6,000 PH.

Now, if they add more sections/blocks that are shorter, then maybe they could increase the rate of launches and increase PPH capacity.

The better way to increase capacity is with a second or third track which most definitely doubles or triples PPH capacity (and allows for the attraction to continue to handle guests if one track goes down).

Lengthening coasters increases guest satisfaction, but doesn't necessarily increase PPH thorughput.

You are correct thats my understanding with Coasters as well. More tracks more or longer tracks more launches means more on the attraction at any given time. But I dont think Disney can add tracks to 7DMT or Big Thunder or really any of the existing coasters.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You are correct thats my understanding with Coasters as well. More tracks more or longer tracks more launches means more on the attraction at any given time. But I dont think Disney can add tracks to 7DMT or Big Thunder or really any of the existing coasters.

That's why I think TRON is somewhat OK for MK... it's basically a second track for Space.

Now, WDW could replace Space's tracks with higher occupancy trains...

Even better would be more 'family friendly' coasters in the other three parks. Seems like you can never have enough of those.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Locals were a minor piece of the puzzle in the first place and that was before these changes/price jumps.

locals don’t fill the parks

I am glad you clarified that.

Locals do not overcrowd WDW.

For sure, going forward, that will not be the case also.

Whoever was MOBBING the parks pre pandemic, it will be interesting to see if they come back.

 

[jpinkc]

That's why I think TRON is somewhat OK for MK... it's basically a second track for Space.

Now, WDW could replace Space's tracks with higher occupancy trains...

Even better would be more 'family friendly' coasters in the other three parks. Seems like you can never have enough of those.

Yeah I am at that stage where a family friendly coaster is nice, but we dont want the Kiddie Park complaints about Disney starting again like in the 80's (I think thats when they were raging about Disney, I'm getting old so dont shoot me if I am wrong ). Coasters while good are not the end all be all for most Disney park goers. There are plenty of other rides that can have even greater capacity. If anything Disney needs to add more of the Mid Tier rides. Mr Toad, Snow White's scary adventure types. Rides with good theming that appeal to Disney fans. This is about MK I am speaking of.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am glad you clarified that.

Locals do not overcrowd WDW.

For sure, going forward, that will not be the case also.

Whoever was MOBBING the parks pre pandemic, it will be interesting to see if they come back.

Locals are 10-20% of the crowd on average.

travel appears to be down for the fall and perhaps the winter.

$699 Florida APs can’t stem the tide

 

[jpinkc]

I am glad you clarified that.

Locals do not overcrowd WDW.

For sure, going forward, that will not be the case also.

Whoever was MOBBING the parks pre pandemic, it will be interesting to see if they come back.

Oh once the Holidays get into gear the Mobs will be in full swing!!! And Genie will be there to Magically take away more of your money. I would not be surprised if we dont get Revenge travel 2.0 during the Holidays.

 

[dreday3]

Locals are 10-20% of the crowd on average.

travel appears to be down for the fall and perhaps the winter.

$699 Florida APs can’t stem the tide

I keep seeing this. How does everyone know? Because OCTOBER IS GOING TO BE A MADHOUSE has been pummeled into my brain.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Oh once the Holidays get into gear the Mobs will be in full swing!!! And Genie will be there to Magically take away more of your money. I would not be surprised if we dont get Revenge travel 2.0 during the Holidays.

Disney wins again. TWDC is invincible….

 

[GimpYancIent]

Oh once the Holidays get into gear the Mobs will be in full swing!!! And Genie will be there to Magically take away more of your money. I would not be surprised if we dont get Revenge travel 2.0 during the Holidays.

The term "MOBS" I believe is a bit much. There will be more people out and about determined to spend some money and do something for the holidays, but, there are many locations and venues vying for the people & $$$ this year Disney will have no exclusive offerings.

 

[brettf22]

I’ve noticed they’ve been displaying return time on the newly anointed Lightning Lane signs. Don’t think these were on before the renaming. What would be the rationale for having them on? Making sure they work?

 

[pdude81]

I’ve noticed they’ve been displaying return time on the newly anointed Lightning Lane signs. Don’t think these were on before the renaming. What would be the rationale for having them on? Making sure they work?

View attachment 585477View attachment 585478

I thought the time had been up on the FP+ signs all along. I feel like I've seen it showing earlier this year at Soarin and Navi at least.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I keep seeing this. How does everyone know? Because OCTOBER IS GOING TO BE A MADHOUSE has been pummeled into my brain.

October is a crowded month typically…somewhat artificially so as it tends to be weekends and Halloween events. Food and wine has created local “surges”

but “it’s gonna be a madhouse” is 2019 thinking.

hotels are not fully open. But that’s not apparent because people say “no availability”

…because they’re in low occ conditions. All rooms aren’t being sold due to demand and/or staffing.

one hotel with about 1000 rooms that “reopened” on 8/26 when I was there? Reopened 100 rooms…plus the DVC component. I heard that they will probably be open about 75% by November or December. That’s just one case but I do have low occ experience in the one true time it happened…bout 20 years ago.

“no availability” doesn’t mean all the rooms are filled. It might…but doesn’t here.

do they open 3,200 rooms at port orleans at once? No way…not logistically feasible or possible in sales.

but I’m not clairvoyant…it didn’t hit me until I saw it and asked some questions in passing.

look at the “park availability” calendar. It’s pretty much wide open. I’m sure Disney hopes more late demand/ap…

…but I’ve also made the mistake of following travel business reportings again and just today their hair was on fire. The economics aren’t pointing to a “mob” this fall.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’ve noticed they’ve been displaying return time on the newly anointed Lightning Lane signs. Don’t think these were on before the renaming. What would be the rationale for having them on? Making sure they work?

View attachment 585477View attachment 585478

Soft testing…I’m sure

 

[peter11435]

I’ve noticed they’ve been displaying return time on the newly anointed Lightning Lane signs. Don’t think these were on before the renaming. What would be the rationale for having them on? Making sure they work?

View attachment 585477View attachment 585478

They are displaying the current time. They are essentially just clocks. Most have been on the entire time

 

[Hawg G]

Imagine a park with two rides and 1,000 guests who want to ride them. Thats 500 people at a time in line at each ride. Now imagine the same number guests with four rides: 250 people at a time in line at each ride.

Assume (for the sake of simplicity) all rides have the same capacity/wait time per person and that I'm always at the end of the line. in scenario one, I have to wait for 1,000 ahead of me (500 x 2) and ride two rides. In scenario two, I still have to wait for 1,000 people in front of me (250 x 4) so end up waiting the same amount of time in total, but I've ridden four rides instead of two.

More rides may not decrease total wait time (assuming everyone wants to ride every single ride) but it decreases wait time at each ride so more rides can be ridden in the same amount of time.

Or am I missing something?

People are assuming attendance will increase the same amount equal to the capacity increase. At MK, this isn't that difficult, as total capacity is rather large. And some folks will also shift capacity from say old and busted Tiki Room to new and still sorta lame Tron. This of course is a reasonable assumption since Disney went so long with zero or negative capacity increases, as attendance kept going up. Star Wars is a perfect example. It did add a pretty significant percentage of capacity with the two rides. But also attracted a ton of folks. Pandora is maybe a better example with another big capacity percentage addition, but again, people raved about the Soarin' Over Pandora ride so much, the hoards went.

The root cause of all of it is the decades of zero expansion and very few new things in general that made WDW guests starving for anything new. Epcot getting a big capacity increase just might make a difference. Rat is a very tame kids ride for a fairly old movie now, and a pretty dead IP. And Guardians is likely not going to be mind blowing. Although, again, the Diznoids will be out in force saying how unbelievable it is, and how it is so much better than Hagrids. i'm not sure it will work with Guardians though.