Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It shocked me they didn’t do that as a stay on-site incentive.

Why incentivize what people voluntarily pay for?

 

[monothingie]

My hope is that so few buy this that it doesn’t matter.

Aside from the Disney die hards, (which will probably be a large portion of the visitors on 10/1) I'm not really sure how quickly standard guests will pickup on this.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It shocked me they didn’t do that as a stay on-site incentive.

Anything would be nice…

…but it would be the most shocking thing ever. If they are throwing it in…they have bigger troubles than not selling fast pass.

I hope it happens…actually

I envision it as a deal along the lines of Free Dining. Free Genie+ costs them nothing and if they don’t have to then discount the resort rate, they still win.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Aside from the Disney die hards, (which will probably be a large portion of the visitors on 10/1) I'm not really sure how quickly standard guests will pickup on this.

My worry is that 2 years down the line, it will become compulsory as more and more fall in line. I don’t foresee much impact early on.

 

[monothingie]

It shocked me they didn’t do that as a stay on-site incentive.

It's the same reason why they haven't done any special promotions/discounts past 9/25. They expect not to need it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Aside from the Disney die hards, (which will probably be a large portion of the visitors on 10/1) I'm not really sure how quickly standard guests will pickup on this.

…when the plague ends and places such as this and a network of ultimately not very insightful travel agents start suggesting it en masse as some kinda “secret” tactic

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My worry is that 2 years down the line, it will become compulsory as more and more fall in line. I don’t foresee much impact early on.

I think that’s a given…the only uncertainty in my mind is the overall travel/economic outlook

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I envision it as a deal along the lines of Free Dining. Free Genie+ costs them nothing and if they don’t have to then discount the resort rate, they still win.

They would have to have very high attendance from off property to make it a good incentive

I’m not sure that’s going to be in their future. Very few ways to do wdw “cheap” these days

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's the same reason why they haven't done any special promotions/discounts past 9/25. They expect not to need it.

Like Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge, I’m sure.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's the same reason why they haven't done any special promotions/discounts past 9/25. They expect not to need it.

They have a bad ceo and I bet he told Wall Street that…

…anyone want to bet against me?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Like Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge, I’m sure.

At least they can’t misinterpret the entire fanbase to the parks that badly…I think?

 

[monothingie]

My worry is that 2 years down the line, it will become compulsory as more and more fall in line. I don’t foresee much impact early on.

Absolutely, in 2 years you won't be able to avoid it. I'm just waiting on what marketing comes up with in terms of an offering to solve the crowds created by Genie +. Maybe Genie + Max?

 

[larryz]

Lightning Lane is pretty bad - I know we’re supposed to think of the Cars character, but I’m a Disney fan and the connection took me a bit. Why not just leave it as Fastpass, an accepted, recognized name associated with Disney?

Because "FastPass" is that product they once said they'd never charge for...

 

[monothingie]

Like Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge, I’m sure.

Well they all live in their own little echo chamber, telling each other how great everything they do is and how guest satisfaction is skyrocketing.

 

[larryz]

Yes, but many of these require filing permits for new sign installation and assigning resources to do the installation. To ensure all signs are consistent as quickly as possible, they do this first and then deploy teams to go to them individually and give each instance the attention it deserves. As others said, if this persists for too long, it's worthy of a complaint. Reinstalling a ton of unique signage overnight isn't realistic. Covering existing signage in vinyl is.

A permit to change a sign in a theme park?

Who made that rule -- the American Association of Permit Approvers?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Absolutely, in 2 years you won't be able to avoid it. I'm just waiting on what marketing comes up with in terms of an offering to solve the crowds created by Genie +. Maybe Genie + Max?

That’s why the wheel is never going to be broken with 3 months management. Construction is the only way “out” of this longterm

Well they all live in their own little echo chamber, telling each other how great everything they do is and how guest satisfaction is skyrocketing.

There are some grumblings with that particular property that they are just “waiting” to roll out the same awful characters from 3 bad movies again

…like nobody will remember/notice…

…talk about an echo chamber.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That might have been the way it worked before, but it's not really the same now. Probably hasn't been since tickets were eliminated in the 1980s. The headliner attractions are pulling the weight for the whole park, and justifying the admission prices, so there is extraordinary demand on those attractions. People expect to ride those attractions for the price of admission.

Again it goes back to thinking that all attraction experiences are the same (which is something that was sorta of enforced with the pay-one-price passport system). But if someone doesn't want to wait in a 60-90 minute wait for Mine Train, you can't offer them Swiss Family Treehouse as an alternative. That's part of the reason Fastpass ultimately failed, and why I'm pretty skeptical of Genie.

So no, it's not about how many things someone did at the end of the day.

It is not how things used to be done. It is how it is done right now. It was done for Universal Studios Beijing. It was done for SeaWorld Abu Dhabi. It was done for Epic Universe. It is even done for small little attractions.

There is no way to run a park that is only headliners. Even something like Discovery Bay where attendance is extremely restricted has down time built into the experience. It is simply not sustainable. It is why the coaster wars ended. You just end up in a vicious circle of escalating costs and diminishing returns. Headliners cost more and need to attract more people, but since they’re attracting more people they need greater capacity which costs more, so you need more people to get a return on that cost.

Parks need variety especially when you want to appeal to a wide audience. The whole problem with the model of having just enough to technically fill a day is everyone doesn’t want to do everything, so you end up with the “half day” moniker. It’s not that Swiss Family Robinson is a substitute for Seven Dearfs Mine Train, but that a day filled with a variety of experiences with decent waits makes people happy. They might be disappointed with missing that one ride but they’re still happy with their day and will look to return to ride things they liked and things they missed.

Generally, I don't think your wrong, but even people in this thread keep forgetting that they added a high capacity dark ride to Fantasyland. Even in Epcot, where Ratatouille is going to be a net positive in capacity, the ride is being downplayed.

The biggest deterrence to building dark rides though, is that they are fairly common technology and there's nothing from stopping your competitors from building the same experiences. Disney has to lean on their IP in order to build a unique and marketable dark ride.

Disney leans on their IP because one guy didn’t understand the appeal of Expedition Everest and why it was such a big success. Such a success that it remains a better return on investment than anything he approved for Walt Disney World.

Ratatouille is being downplayed because it’s not that great, but still massive and expensive. Simply existing doesn’t mean it’s well designed and executed. Simpler, far cheaper attractions like Justice League: Battle for Metropolis and Symbolica still garner public and industry praise.

Disney isn’t building things that competitors can’t build. The next new ride is Ratatouille but Disney wasn’t first to open a true trackless ride in Florida, that was SeaWorld with equipment provided by Oceaneering just down the road off the Beachline. TRON’s ride vehicles are just an iteration on Vekoma’s existing design that is offered for sale to everyone. Guardians of Galaxy’s spinning is based on Vekoma’s Flying Dutchman 2 that is sold to anyone and already exists. The two newest rides at Walt Disney World are trackless as well.

If Disney has any advantage in ride systems then it is in simulators. Nobody has as of yet replicated the single seat with wide range of motion flying theater used on Flight of Passage. Smuggler’s Run has also not been replicated but it’s complexity is more to solve the illusion of loading than the actual ride experience. Even Rise of the Resistance uses a simulator for its best surprises. Of course Disney is wise not to dive fully into simulators because “screen fatigue” is a real issue that Universal now measures to avoid.

With dark rides nobody else has Disney’s animatronics technology. Their compliance and controls remain the best in the industry and absolutely remain a strong differentiator. Their willingness to spend more should give them a huge advantage on show set design.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Lightning Lane is pretty bad - I know we’re supposed to think of the Cars character, but I’m a Disney fan and the connection took me a bit. Why not just leave it as Fastpass, an accepted, recognized name associated with Disney?

Lightning Lane isn't a product, it's the physical queue space.

 

[MuppetNation]

I went back to the Disney Park Blogs page where they introduced Genie, mainly to see how many positive comments I could actually find on it. Encountered a bit of a problem. If you're based in the UK you can't access the page (or well I couldn't), it keeps redirecting you to the Disneyworld.co.uk site. I tried a number of differnet ways and devices and the only way I could in the end was use a US VPN connection.

The obvious conclusion I've come to is that Genie won't be something that will affect UK visitors. When we arrive we won't see Lightning Lane's, we'll merely see the Fastpass lane. Taking it on to the obvious conclusions, I'm assuming that the Magical Express will continue for us whilst Magic Bands will be given free to all resort guests and extra hours will be open to all resort guests, not just deluxe ones.

Or alternatively they don't want us to know about it yet which I'm not exactly sure why that is the case.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Lightning Lane isn't a product, it's the physical queue space.

…huge difference. thanks, Professor