Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

The spreading of false information like masks don't work matters, and has throughout the pandemic. Masks do work

Masks or no masks are the least of our problems right now.

 

[Andrew C]

Get vaccinated then you can enter. I don't see what the big deal is.

This assumes the globe has equal access to vaccines, and the good vaccines, and that everyone will take it. I wouldn't expect more than 50% of the total world's population to be vaccinated. And even less with the highly effective vaccines.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Masks or not masks are the least of our problems right now.

I would say that misinformation is a huge part of our problems right now.

 

[havoc315]

It isn't "normal" to keep locking down every time a wave happens. "Normal" is living like we did before.

Normal is always changing. What was normal 20 years ago.. 50 years ago... 100 years ago... isn't the normal of now.

We are done with lock downs here: They no longer serve a purpose. Sadly, we failed. But vaccines are fully available to anyone over 12. At this point, it's just a matter of time --- everyone who isn't vaccinated, will be infected. Delta is just too infectious. So lockdowns only delay that inevitable result.

But Australia is still increasing vaccination -- So lockdowns are still the ideal solution to beat Covid. Lockdowns until they reach much higher vaccination.

 

[Jrb1979]

What is a high percentage though? And when can the entire world achieve that? I see that as taking years and years. So, they are going to keep things like tourism off the table for a decade?

Tourism is not off the table. Just for those not vaccinated. I don't see what the big deal is. IMO Canada has worked hard to get cases low and get a high percentage vaccinated. I would hate to see that go to waste with letting everyone in.

This assumes the globe has equal access to vaccines, and the good vaccines, and that everyone will take it. I wouldn't expect more than 50% of the total world's population to be vaccinated. And even less with the highly effective vaccines.

Thats the world we live in now. People keep saying that we need to live with Covid. Vaccine passports are a way to do it.

 

[Andrew C]

Tourism is not off the table. Just for those not vaccinated. I don't see what the big deal is. IMO Canada has worked hard to get cases low and get a high percentage vaccinated. I would hate to see that go to waste with letting everyone in.

I don't think you understand how much of the world will never be vaccinated. Or will be vaccinated with a subpar vaccine. This is going to be an issue for years and years...

 

[techgeek]

It isn't "normal" to keep locking down every time a wave happens. "Normal" is living like we did before.

I’ve found that it’s much better for my mental health to accept reality for what it is rather then attempting to force my personal expectations of ‘normal’ onto a life of constant change.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Masks or no masks are the least of our problems right now.

They certainly aren't the only problem, but I don't know that I'd say least. But that's my individual perspective as someone with a child not old enough to be vaccinated.

 

[Trauma]

IMHO the problem is the curve not currently flat

It will never be flat without herd immunity

No, it's not. The spreading of false information like masks don't work matters, and has throughout the pandemic. Masks do work. People don't like them and don't use them appropriately, which makes the mitigation less/non-effective - but again, that's behavior, not masks. Appropriately naming what something is measuring matters. Measuring behavior is different than measuring the effectiveness of masks themselves.

Exactly.

Masks themselves work.

Unfortunately we have a large enough sample size that shows that human behavior in relation to masks makes them ineffective.

If we want a mask mandate do it right!

Everyone over the age of 2 in public has to wear a properly fitted N95 mask at all times or face significant fines.

Then masks will prove to be a truly effective tool in our fight against the virus.

Until then it’s just another half hearted attempt to pretend like we are trying when really we are continuing to fail.

 

[Disney Experience]

@Polkadotdress didn't test positive. I assume they are either contacting the positives or they have a way to cross check with the vaccination database.

The Florida database is not verry accurate as this article describes back in April:

Florida health records show spotty vaccination data at state level

Coronavirus vaccination records obtained by News 6 show information for all of Florida’s 67 counties may not be readily available.

www.clickorlando.com

 

[Andrew C]

They certainly aren't the only problem, but I don't know that I'd say least. But that's my individual perspective as someone with a child not old enough to be vaccinated.

I have a 3 year old and an 8 year old. I don't worry about it too much with them. The data and information available suggests that I shouldn't.

I get why other parents do, however.

 

[danlb_2000]

It isn't "normal" to keep locking down every time a wave happens. "Normal" is living like we did before.

Nothing about the last 18 months has been normal, doesn't mean we should have done the things we did. If cases start rising to the point where the health care system is getting stressed, then mitigations should be put back in place.

 

[havoc315]

What is a high percentage though? And when can the entire world achieve that? I see that as taking years and years. It isn't good enough that just Australia achieves a high vaccination rate. So, they are going to keep things like tourism off the table for a decade?

I'm talking about Australia's vaccination rate, not the world.
Once they achieve high enough vaccination -- and then they open up travel, solely to vaccinated individuals.

 

[DisneyCane]

The Florida database is not verry accurate as this article describes back in April:

Florida health records show spotty vaccination data at state level

Coronavirus vaccination records obtained by News 6 show information for all of Florida’s 67 counties may not be readily available.

www.clickorlando.com

We are talking about Orange County residents. Orange County was mentioned as one of the 12 that were available.

 

[Andrew C]

Nothing about the last 18 months has been normal, doesn't mean we should have done the things we did. If cases start rising to the point where the health care system is getting stressed, then mitigations should be put back in place.

If we can get through January numbers with most places not locking down hard, I think we can make it through the latest bump. This is not to suggest that I would ever want to see January numbers again or that I agreed with every decision at that time. I just think we have enough vaccinated to where we won't see those numbers again.

 

[Andrew C]

I'm talking about Australia's vaccination rate, not the world.
Once they achieve high enough vaccination -- and then they open up travel, solely to vaccinated individuals.

That may be fine short term. Long term...nope..

 

[Kevin_W]

At this point, it's just a matter of time --- everyone who isn't vaccinated, will be infected. Delta is just too infectious. So lockdowns only delay that inevitable result.

That seems a bit pessimistic. India's cases have fallen to less than 10% of their peak and cumulatively they have had <32 million cases in a country of 1.4 billion people (2.2% of the population). Most people think the 32 million is vastly undercounted, but we're still talking single digit percetages of the population.

That's in an country with 6% fully vaccinated individuals. So even the Delta variant isnt' instantly spreading to every unvaccinated person.

 

[mmascari]

From day 1 the entire point was not to buy time. The entire point was to "flatten the curve" so that the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed. Early on nobody knew for certain that an effective vaccine would be available quickly.

That's a willful misunderstanding of "flatten the curve". It's exactly correct that you do it so the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed. But, if you don't do anything else in that time, as soon as you lift whatever was done, you'll start to overwhelm the healthcare system. Which is what we're seeing in some localized areas now.

If the only reason was to flatten and not use the time to create a better solution that's less disruptive than what was done immediately, you would never stop doing those things. We've all agreed that those mitigations slow not stop the spread. So, just slow it forever and have all the same impacts just spread out over years instead of months or weeks.

We did use the time to develop vaccines and to start rolling them out. We just didn't do anything else. We didn't do the the other things to spot and contain smaller outbreaks before they became large. We're all in on Vaccine or Bust as the only other thing.

The "flatten the curve" description was a good marketing slogan and jingle, it wasn't some complete policy plan. Pretending it was, or if it really was to some, is simply sad.

 

[Disney Experience]

We are talking about Orange County residents. Orange County was mentioned as one of the 12 that were available.

But whose data was still questionable. OC has data but the data has flaws, duplicates, and other inconsistancies.

From article:

In contrast, the numbers produced for Orange County were extensive, and they dated back to Dec.15, when some of the first people in the county received their shot.

However, some of the records for days afterward appeared to be missing.

… Some dates had duplicate entries with different vaccination data entered.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

They didn't HAVE to reintroduce restrictions. The CDC guidance for the unvaccinated to wear masks is for the purpose of protecting other unvaccinated people. Since everybody has the opportunity to be vaccinated to protect themselves if they choose, no government should be mandating anything to protect people who choose, for whatever reason, not to protect themselves.

I think Australia proves that it is impossible to get rid of COVID through mitigation, testing and contact tracing. The only thing those measures do is "flatten the curve" and slow the pandemic. The only thing that will ever get rid of COVID is herd immunity gained through vaccination, natural infection or a combination of the two.

You can change my comment from 'had' to re-introduce restrictions to 'chose' to do so, but the result is the same.

Government imposes lots of rules for people's protection. Seatbelts and drug use are things that primarily impact the individual using or not using them, and there are still laws around those behaviours.

Sometimes the government will try and protect those that don't help themselves. That's the reality. It's frustrating for everyone who is vaccinated because it feels like they're being punished for the actions of others, but government in this case is just trying to keep the entire population safer, and isn't going to worry about what's fair nor throw unvaccinated people under the bus. It's easy for the rest of us to say "leave those idiots to their fate" but the government has a higher standard of care to adhere to.