Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I bet you did do this actually.

Are you driving a car from before 1968 with no seat belts?

Maybe that’s to far, perhaps a 1980 Pinto?

Maybe something newer than 1999 with air bags required?

How about crumple zones?

I bet you have a car with automatic emergency braking too. Soon to be required for all cars.

We do all kinds of things to make driving safer every year.

We all buy cars with these safety features. Outside of seatbelts which have a physical component to them the rest are seamless to the driving experience.

I agree and have been quite surprised at the number of people who elect not to take a safe and simple step to minimize their risk.

We do but we could make driving almost 100% safe. We just aren't willing to make the trade offs in comfort, efficiency and cost. The crash that Ryan Newman survived last year at the Daytona 500 shows that vehicles can be made nearly 100% safe in any normal driving situation. We just aren't willing to wear helmets and five point harnesses, get 10 MPG and pay more for a safety cage.

The point I’m making is having everyone drive around in helmets and 5 point restraints is a big change to the driving experience. Having nobody drive more than 15 MPH would make cars 100% safe but would greatly impact the efficiency of driving. Taking a vaccine that’s perfectly safe and takes less than a minute to administer has zero impact on anyone’s day to day life. Last year before the vaccines the argument was stronger that staying at home, distancing, masking and avoiding seeing family and friends would help keep us safe but that was at a great cost to quality of life. The vaccines are free, easy and almost 100% safe.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

We’ll have to agree to disagree about 1

I should have added “when vaccinated and unvaccinated people are mixing” to my point. I have no problem with the theaters in NYC that are allowing no masks and no distancing but requiring vaccination.

 

[GoofGoof]

70% of the population vaccinated would probably be my threshold if I was solely going to determine the rules.

70% of the total population fully vaccinated? That would require 82% of all eligible people to be vaccinated until kids under 12 are approved. We are unlikely to ever get to 82% so requiring 70% of total population to be fully vaccinated is committing to continue mitigations through the end of 2021 and that assumes people get their kids vaccinated at a high enough rate. Lots of people are buying into this “vaccines aren’t safe for kids” narrative. Without kids we cannot reach 70% of the total population vaccinated.

Right now VT, MA and HI are all over 70% of their population with 1 shot and 14 other states are over 60% with a shot to get there before kids under 12 are approved.

 

[BrianLo]

So what would your deaths per day threshold be for not wearing masks anymore?

If we had demonstrable proof that masking could prevent 40 deaths a day in the US (from all cause respiratory pathogens), that would put it on the same level as seatbelts.

I actually don’t think that’s a very hard threshold to hit during the typical winter cold season. Particularly in light about what has occurred over the last year with other viruses being obliterated.

It’s never, ever, ever going to happen (in North America). But a case could very easily be made for a simple precaution that does no harm apart from sending adults into temper tantrums / meltdowns.

It would be nice if people at least wore a mask when they themselves are symptomatic from any virus in the future. That might stick slightly more as a societal change.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

so requiring 70% of total population to be fully vaccinated is committing to continue mitigations through the end of 2021 and that assumes people get their kids vaccinated at a high enough rate.

Ok. I’m fine with that. Considering we still have a global pandemic happening.

 

[willtravel]

How many was it?

How many does she think it was?

I don't remember how many she said died from the vaccine. I have gotten to the point that I don't care if she does one way or another. Sounds cruel but ....... Even if if was only 10 people it would not matter. I think now for the most part the population has decided on getting a shot or not.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ok. I’m fine with that. Considering we still have a global pandemic happening.

If we hit 70% vaccinated tomorrow there would still be a worldwide pandemic happening. Likely for a few years still.

 

[correcaminos]

I have a friend that said she will not get the Covid shot because of how many people who died from the shot. I think it works both ways.

It shouldn't and IMO anyone who hears this and doesn't try to correct or repeats this with out admonishing the statement are part of why we suck at vaccination here. I'm honestly beyond disappointed in our numbers here. We shouldn't be this bad

 

[havoc315]

70% of the total population fully vaccinated? That would require 82% of all eligible people to be vaccinated until kids under 12 are approved. We are unlikely to ever get to 82% so requiring 70% of total population to be fully vaccinated is committing to continue mitigations through the end of 2021 and that assumes people get their kids vaccinated at a high enough rate. Lots of people are buying into this “vaccines aren’t safe for kids” narrative. Without kids we cannot reach 70% of the total population vaccinated.

Right now VT, MA and HI are all over 70% of their population with 1 shot and 14 other states are over 60% with a shot to get there before kids under 12 are approved.

There are different levels of mitigation. But yes, I do think we should be looking even higher than 70% of total population... Recent studies with the Delta variant suggest we need an 85% immunity level for herd immunity. While some of that will be naturally acquired immunity, we are probably looking at needing 70-75% of the total population fully vaccinated (not just first shot).
Sadly, we are unlikely to ever get there.

No, that doesn't mean we all wear masks and socially distance forever. It does mean that unvaccinated people should continue to wear masks (though they likely won't). It does mean that masking should be mandated in some crowded indoor situations (such as air, train and bus travel). It means surveillance and contact tracing should continue. And it means we really could benefit from vaccine passports, but we know that's not happening.

Essentially, sadly, the US does not have the willpower as a community to do what needs to be done -- Too much vaccine hesitancy, and the lack of the will to do things like vaccine passports to push the issue. Free beer and lotteries only entice so many people to get vaccinated.

Vermont has 66% of their entire population fully vaccinated. Not just adults -- Not just 1st shot. 76% of adults are fully vaccinated. So it's quite likely they will surpass 75% of the entire population as fully vaccinated once kids can get vaccinated. (If they get vaccinated at a rate even close to their parents).

So getting 75% of entire population vaccinated is an obtainable goal with the right cultural attitudes. Sadly, we are unlikely to get there on a national level. And we will pay the price -- Covid will likely stick around in various forms. Not nearly as deadly as in 2020 -- Lots of people with immunity, better treatments, etc.

 

[Polkadotdress]

70% of the population vaccinated would probably be my threshold if I was solely going to determine the rules.

I'm glad you're not making the rules. We may never get to 70% of the population vaccinated.

And meanwhile, there are those of us who are vaccinated yet immunocompromised who have been given a 70% vax rate as the goal for when we can take off our masks indoors.

This should be a team effort, yet sadly it’s not. And I am reaallllly getting tired of the looks I get wearing my masks indoors.

 

[Phil12]

We’ll have to agree to disagree about 1 (I was happy to do it before I was fully vaccinated, lest you think I’m one of the loons), but regarding 2, I think you’re right. Even if a small percentage of parents choose to vaccinate their children under 12, it’ll easily push the country over 70%, probably even 75%, though I don’t think it’ll get much higher than that. Too many people are way too entrenched on the anti-vaxx side.

The problem with saying that 70% or 75% of the population is vaccinated, neglects to note that the population of vaccinated people is not evenly dispersed throughout the United States. Unfortunately regional clusters are common with high percentages of vaccinated people in one region while another region of low vaccinated people occur in an adjacent county.

The regions with low vaccination rates will allow the virus to live long, prosper and mutate. Florida has many of these low vaccination regional pockets and the behavior of the anti-vax people is based upon fear and misinformation as well as irrational and illogical beliefs.

And Florida has this place called Disney World which is the number one tourist attraction. It's a perfect place to help spread the virus regionally, nationally and globally.

 

[Chi84]

70% of the total population fully vaccinated? That would require 82% of all eligible people to be vaccinated until kids under 12 are approved. We are unlikely to ever get to 82% so requiring 70% of total population to be fully vaccinated is committing to continue mitigations through the end of 2021 and that assumes people get their kids vaccinated at a high enough rate. Lots of people are buying into this “vaccines aren’t safe for kids” narrative. Without kids we cannot reach 70% of the total population vaccinated.

Right now VT, MA and HI are all over 70% of their population with 1 shot and 14 other states are over 60% with a shot to get there before kids under 12 are approved.

Investigation after teen dies three days after second Covid shot — Daily Mail

Jacob Clynick, a 13-year-old from Michigan has died in his sleep three days after receiving his second Coronavirus vaccine, prompting an investigation by the Centers for Disease Control.

apple.news

This story and another similar one involving a child in Russia popped up in my news feed just this morning. Parents read it, see their own perfectly healthy child and decide it’s not worth the risk. Hopefully most will talk it over with their pediatrician and get the full information but you can’t say these headlines aren’t scary.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Investigation after teen dies three days after second Covid shot — Daily Mail

Jacob Clynick, a 13-year-old from Michigan has died in his sleep three days after receiving his second Coronavirus vaccine, prompting an investigation by the Centers for Disease Control.

apple.news

This story and another similar one involving a child in Russia popped up in my news feed just this morning. Parents read it, see their own perfectly healthy child and decide it’s not worth the risk. Hopefully most will talk it over with their pediatrician and get the full information but you can’t say these headlines aren’t scary.

Aren't an enlarged heart and especially with fluid around it indicative of long-term heart issues? I'm hoping one of our friends with medical knowledge can answer this.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Vermont has 66% of their entire population fully vaccinated. Not just adults -- Not just 1st shot. 76% of adults are fully vaccinated. So it's quite likely they will surpass 75% of the entire population as fully vaccinated once kids can get vaccinated. (If they get vaccinated at a rate even close to their parents).

Right now VT, MA and HI are all over 70% of their population with 1 shot and 14 other states are over 60% with a shot to get there before kids under 12 are approved.

And to see where Vermont and MA lands on the list of COVID cases in terms of percentage of the population you'll have to, spoiler alert, scroll to the very very bottom. Hawaii is still quite high. Due to high tourism levels I'm guessing?

Still, the effectiveness of vaccines is clear. What more can be said or done?

COVID-19 in the U.S.: How do Canada's provinces rank against American states?

Looking at confirmed coronavirus cases per million people, how do the U.S. states compare to Canada's provinces and territories?

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Aren't an enlarged heart and especially with fluid around it indicative of long-term heart issues? I'm hoping one of our friends with medical knowledge can answer this.

He’s a male under 30.... that’s the group that has had the issues with Pfizer and Moderna.

 

[GoofGoof]

There are different levels of mitigation. But yes, I do think we should be looking even higher than 70% of total population... Recent studies with the Delta variant suggest we need an 85% immunity level for herd immunity. While some of that will be naturally acquired immunity, we are probably looking at needing 70-75% of the total population fully vaccinated (not just first shot).
Sadly, we are unlikely to ever get there.

No, that doesn't mean we all wear masks and socially distance forever. It does mean that unvaccinated people should continue to wear masks (though they likely won't). It does mean that masking should be mandated in some crowded indoor situations (such as air, train and bus travel). It means surveillance and contact tracing should continue. And it means we really could benefit from vaccine passports, but we know that's not happening.

Essentially, sadly, the US does not have the willpower as a community to do what needs to be done -- Too much vaccine hesitancy, and the lack of the will to do things like vaccine passports to push the issue. Free beer and lotteries only entice so many people to get vaccinated.

Vermont has 66% of their entire population fully vaccinated. Not just adults -- Not just 1st shot. 76% of adults are fully vaccinated. So it's quite likely they will surpass 75% of the entire population as fully vaccinated once kids can get vaccinated. (If they get vaccinated at a rate even close to their parents).

So getting 75% of entire population vaccinated is an obtainable goal with the right cultural attitudes. Sadly, we are unlikely to get there on a national level. And we will pay the price -- Covid will likely stick around in various forms. Not nearly as deadly as in 2020 -- Lots of people with immunity, better treatments, etc.

It kinda does. If we set a goal above the level we can ever reach then by default the mitigations never end. That’s fine if people think that’s the way to go. I don’t agree.

I have said for some time now that we should have set a vaccination target (like 70% of adults) but primarily as a means to get cases to the level they need to be at. Relaxing mitigations should be about cases and community spread and not solely based on percent vaccinated. There is another way to get immune besides the vaccine….some people are electing the hard way. Not much I can do to stop them.

 

[GoofGoof]

He’s a male under 30.... that’s the group that has had the issues with Pfizer and Moderna.

How do we get over 70% of the total population vaccinated if all the males under 30 stop getting the vaccine?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

How do we get over 70% of the total population vaccinated if all the males under 30 stop getting the vaccine?

Well males 18-30 can get J&J or they can choose to take the risk with Pfizer / Moderna vs. the risk of covid.

 

[lisa12000]

Well you all will get to see how a country dates when getting rid of all mitigation’s whilst coping with delta on July 19th in uk - got believe me I’m so so glad about it but slightly nervous…

 

[Disney Analyst]

Aren't an enlarged heart and especially with fluid around it indicative of long-term heart issues? I'm hoping one of our friends with medical knowledge can answer this.

He’s a male under 30.... that’s the group that has had the issues with Pfizer and Moderna.

How do we get over 70% of the total population vaccinated if all the males under 30 stop getting the vaccine?

Well males 18-30 can get J&J or they can choose to take the risk with Pfizer / Moderna vs. the risk of covid.

I am a male, aged 30, second dose coming on Saturday.

I’ll keep you all posted.