FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[PirateFrank]

Okay. I'll give you that it does increase the line capacity for about two or three extra minutes. I kind of figured that was negligible.

Sorry, going to disagree with you. The only scenario where this might be the case is a not very crowded park with a low FP saturation rate. If the park is just marginally busy, the standby line is *severely* impacted by the existence of fastpass by virtue of the 70-80% prioritization of FP riders over standby riders. It's not an extra 2-3 minutes. It can turn a 20 min standby into a 45min one, or worse.

 

[Waters Back Side]

A paid version the insiders have insinuated could just mean the same FP+ with the option to purchase an additional ot additional FPs or a tier 1 fast pass. There is nobody that has any absolute certainty that FP+ not will be back.

How would they handle New Years Eve in MK for example or Spring break week with no fast pass? People will spend their entire day waiting in lines. That might be Monday for some but not me. A lot of people are basing their desire to get rid of FP based on current crowd levels. Disney cannot operate at full capacity without fast pass or some form.

 

[hopemax]

That's true, for most attractions; but for E-tickets, the wait times right now look about the same as they did when FP+ was active. Seems like there is a natural limit to how long people are willing to wait (e.g. Splash Mountain is 60-80 minutes with and without FP+).

It's the part of the picture most people don't understand. Waits get long because people are ultimately willing to wait that long. When a standby line only needs 400 people consistently, to sustain an hour wait, or 800 people to wait 2 hours, etc. you can find enough people out of 30,000 people in a park to maintain that. When you bump it up to consistently needing 2000 people willing to wait more than an hour, like the parks are now, it's harder. That's what you are seeing.

 

[PirateFrank]

A lot of people do on this subject. I still respect your opinion.

Thank you, brother! ditto!!!

 

[dovetail65]

I’m legit not trying to be rude but why were you using regular lines 90% of the time? At MK, mine train was the only ride I ever struggled to get a same day FP for.

You kind of read my mind. The point of FP is to use it for the longer lines. There are a couple methods, but with so much info out there I am not so sure it needs be said here.

I could get into it, but anyone likes FP probably already knows and anyone doesn't like FP doesn't care and wants to take their vacation in a certain way. A way that I just can't do at Disney.

FP is going to stay one way or another so I think the people that don't like it maybe try to embrace it and see if they can make their day better with it. The other option is use it in a less than ideal way or not at all and just keep saying the lines they are in are longer because of FP. Even if they are right it's not the point.

For me it's all about the right park, on the right day, going to the right ride at the right time and doing that in conjunction with the FP used one of two ways.

I do think I am done with trying to convince anyone FP+ is a great thing, for me one of the greatest things Disney has implemented as far as I am concerned. If someone just doesn't like FP and doesn't want to embrace that's fine with me, they are still in Disney after all.

 

[flynnibus]

That's true, for most attractions; but for E-tickets, the wait times right now look about the same as they did when FP+ was active. Seems like there is a natural limit to how long people are willing to wait (e.g. Splash Mountain is 60-80 minutes with and without FP+).

Yes, this is a natural point in queuing theory. There is a tolerance for wait - and it's based on multiple factors and will vary per attraction (and can even change with the environment). Wait tolerance is influenced by individual tastes and expected return. For instance, a teen maybe willing to wait an hour for Space Mountain... but not an hour for Hall of Presidents.

But on one day, same person may not be willing to wait over an hour... but on another day, if average waits are an hour even for lesser attractions, they will adapt and adjust their tolerance upward.

Same way none of us would be willing to wait an hour in line at the grocery store... but we are willing to wait an hour in line at WDW because if you held your expectation of what lines in the grocery store are... you'd never get in any line at WDW.

This is why analyzing wait times, etc is not a simple A+B discussion, but is a system of equations including feedback loops.

 

[G00fyDad]

Apparently the moderator of that Facebook page for DVC physically walked up to that fast pass kiosk and attempted to use the touch point and nothing happened. Just wanted to put this out there for those that were curious.

 

[rreading]

I’m a super planner for my wdw trips and have always got the FP’s I’ve wanted, but like others said when you’re using the regular lines the other 90% of the time it makes a noticeable negative impact. For example rides like haunted mansion and pirates had outrageously long lines due to FP, when FP isn’t necessary for omnimovers.

Obvious statement from someone who has been at WDW three times since COVID hit: there has been reduced capacity at MK (clearly) in which we were only able to do MK one of our 5d this recent trip and there was no FP. For most of the day in our two recent trips October and June, HM has had the same lines (30-50min) as when we visited the previous summer during FP. I suppose you can say that it doesn’t need FP, but it’s not much better without it (in our experience)

 

[mikejs78]

Some people just can never accept the truth. He had to take his ball and go home because he didn’t like hearing it. FP will not be back in its past form period.

And you know this how? Right now it's just a rumor and things change.

2 or 3 minutes? The delusion…

It's been studied and shown to be absolutely true. Some attractions have a higher wait by ~ 10 min, some lower by ~10 min, some about the same. But it's not a huge difference we are talking about. It's just the perception of moving slower that makes it seem longer.

 

[PirateFrank]

The point of FP is to use it for the longer lines....

Indeed. One year, out of curiosity, I made spreadsheets of attraction wait times over long periods of time to figure out which attractions made the most sense ..... If wait times for a particular attraction was routinely awful, it made the most sense to target FPs for those attractions at the 60 day mark.

It turned out the spreadsheet didnt really matter, because the obvious attractions turned out to be the ones to target. In the MK, you really needed to stick with the mountains (especially splash, space and 7D) to get your 'money's worth'....for Epcot, TT, Soarin and the ride formerly known as Malestrom, etc. If you were settling for a fastpass on Nemo, you clearly slept in on the 60th day out.

 

[iowamomof4]

Indeed. One year, out of curiosity, I made spreadsheets of attraction wait times over long periods of time to figure out which attractions made the most sense ..... If wait times for a particular attraction was routinely awful, it made the most sense to target FPs for those attractions at the 60 day mark.

It turned out the spreadsheet didnt really matter, because the obvious attractions turned out to be the ones to target. In the MK, you really needed to stick with the mountains (especially splash, space and 7D) to get your 'money's worth'....for Epcot, TT, Soarin and the ride formerly known as Malestrom, etc. If you were settling for a fastpass on Nemo, you clearly slept in on the 60th day out.

As to your last point, TDO kind of forced our hand with the tier system. You pretty much had to choose Nemo or Spaceship Earth or something for your tier two passes, even if you just tapped the ride as you went by so you could try for another tier one later.

 

[mergatroid]

Yes, this is a natural point in queuing theory. There is a tolerance for wait - and it's based on multiple factors and will vary per attraction (and can even change with the environment). Wait tolerance is influenced by individual tastes and expected return. For instance, a teen maybe willing to wait an hour for Space Mountain... but not an hour for Hall of Presidents.

But on one day, same person may not be willing to wait over an hour... but on another day, if average waits are an hour even for lesser attractions, they will adapt and adjust their tolerance upward.

Same way none of us would be willing to wait an hour in line at the grocery store... but we are willing to wait an hour in line at WDW because if you held your expectation of what lines in the grocery store are... you'd never get in any line at WDW.

This is why analyzing wait times, etc is not a simple A+B discussion, but is a system of equations including feedback loops.

An excellent point, it's not as simple as some say. My wife and I for example visit from the UK every year using either AP's or 14 day tickets. It's very common visiting so many days for us to get 3 FP+'s for a 3 hour window and then go. Sometimes we won't even look for a standby line, instead arriving with 10 mins left on our 1st FP, doing our 2nd straight after, have a sit down and drink followed by our 3rd and then off home.

 

[Jrb1979]

Indeed. One year, out of curiosity, I made spreadsheets of attraction wait times over long periods of time to figure out which attractions made the most sense ..... If wait times for a particular attraction was routinely awful, it made the most sense to target FPs for those attractions at the 60 day mark.

It turned out the spreadsheet didnt really matter, because the obvious attractions turned out to be the ones to target. In the MK, you really needed to stick with the mountains (especially splash, space and 7D) to get your 'money's worth'....for Epcot, TT, Soarin and the ride formerly known as Malestrom, etc. If you were settling for a fastpass on Nemo, you clearly slept in on the 60th day out.

All the more reason to package FP to those attractions and charge for it

 

[UNCgolf]

That's true, for most attractions; but for E-tickets, the wait times right now look about the same as they did when FP+ was active. Seems like there is a natural limit to how long people are willing to wait (e.g. Splash Mountain is 60-80 minutes with and without FP+).

Yep, there is, which is why people were wrong to think that everyone in the FP line would just wait in standby and thus they'd all have 3 hours waits. Many, if not most, people are going to avoid a line once it reaches a certain length and try to come back at a different time.

The problem was really at the lesser attractions -- FP+ changed some of those from 15-20 minute standby waits to 45-60+ minute standby waits.

EDIT: I should have written "may have" changed, since we don't actually know one way or the other. It seems logical that it would have with the implementation of booking FPs well before you're actually in the parks, but just because something seems logical doesn't mean it actually happened.

 

[mikejs78]

The problem was really at the lesser attractions -- FP+ changed some of those from 15-20 minute standby waits to 45-60+ minute standby waits.

Not really true - wait times before and after FP+ fluxuated by +/- 10 minutes. https://touringplans.com/blog/how-fastpass-plus-affects-your-wait-update/

Increases in attendance and cutting of staff and capacity (by not running all tracks or skipping ride vehicles, for example) have had far more impact on standby time than FP+.

 

[seascape]

Add on a $500.00 annual fee to those with a Platinum pass for 5 extra fast passes a day for those staying onsite in a deluxed resort or DVC. I would be willing to pay it and only use it for the 20 or so days I am onsite.

 

[LittleBuford]

Not really true - wait times before and after FP+ fluxuated by +/- 10 minutes. https://touringplans.com/blog/how-fastpass-plus-affects-your-wait-update/

Increases in attendance and cutting of staff and capacity (by not running all tracks or skipping ride vehicles, for example) have had far more impact on standby time than FP+.

Thank you for sharing this study, which I wasn’t aware of before. Given that such data is available, I’m surprised that the debate about whether FP+ increases overall wait times has gone on for so long.

 

[UNCgolf]

Not really true - wait times before and after FP+ fluxuated by +/- 10 minutes. https://touringplans.com/blog/how-fastpass-plus-affects-your-wait-update/

Increases in attendance and cutting of staff and capacity (by not running all tracks or skipping ride vehicles, for example) have had far more impact on standby time than FP+.

That's comparing it to regular FastPass (for the most part); not to having standby only lines. Regular FastPass didn't require as much planning, but it still used up most of a ride's hourly capacity.

Regardless, because of the huge increase in attendance (as you mentioned), lines for the smaller attractions would still be longer than they were 20 years ago.

The other issue is that the wait time corresponds to a tremendous difference in the number of people in line with and without FP. If it's a 60 minute wait standby, then there are 1000+ people in the standby queue for many rides. 60 minute wait with FastPass means there are only a couple hundred. It contributes to the parks feeling overly crowded (although it's certainly not the only factor).

 

[LittleBuford]

That's comparing it to regular FastPass (for the most part); not to having standby only lines. Regular FastPass didn't require as much planning, but it still used up most of a ride's hourly capacity.

But many of the rides in question never had "legacy" FASTPASS anyway. They went from having standby queues only to FP+.

 

[UNCgolf]

But many of the rides in question never had "legacy" FASTPASS anyway. They went from having standby queues only to FP+.

The only ones that didn't are Pirates, Haunted Mansion, and Spaceship Earth (according to the article, at least). They also all saw an increase (albeit a small one) in wait times, although since two of the three are omnimovers it shouldn't have affected them too much.

It's not that it's a bad study (it isn't), it's that it's not especially applicable to a discussion of standby only lines, especially considering 7 years have passed and I imagine far more people have realized they can load up on FP+ all day instead of only using the 3 you can book in advance.