• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

havoc315

Well-Known Member
crawale said:
How does COVID exacerbate dying of a traffic related injury as doctors have testified to in New York? If you are dying of cancer or heart disease then these are your cause of death.
Click to expand...

Unless you die in a nuclear explosion, or getting decapitated, etc… Deaths almost never have a singular cause.

Cancer, for example, doesn’t kill people. Cancer can be part of a multi-link chain that kills people.
Growth of tumors can interfere with normal organ function. Chemotherapy increases risk of infection. Eventually, chemotherapy itself becomes toxic.
So cancer often kills through a combination of organ failure, chemotherapy toxicity, infection, etc, which eventually lead to cardiac arrest.
So it’s common for a cause of official death to sound like:
Cardiac arrest
secondary to septic shock
Secondary to multi organ failure
secondary to hydronephrosis
Secondary to malignant tumor

Deaths are usually caused by a chain of events. So even in a patient with cancer or heart disease, Covid or other factors are indeed part of the cause of death.
People with heart disease, for example, can still live another 30 years in good condition.
But Covid, and it’s affect on the heart disease, may lead to death.

From the moment we are born, EVERYONE is dying. But that death may be slowed down or sped up. Covid speeds it up. Cancer speeds it up. Etc.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
havoc315 said:
Unless you die in a nuclear explosion, or getting decapitated, etc… Deaths almost never have a singular cause.

Cancer, for example, doesn’t kill people. Cancer can be part of a multi-link chain that kills people.
Growth of tumors can interfere with normal organ function. Chemotherapy increases risk of infection. Eventually, chemotherapy itself becomes toxic.
So cancer often kills through a combination of organ failure, chemotherapy toxicity, infection, etc, which eventually lead to cardiac arrest.
So it’s common for a cause of official death to sound like:
Cardiac arrest
secondary to septic shock
Secondary to multi organ failure
secondary to hydronephrosis
Secondary to malignant tumor

Deaths are usually caused by a chain of events. So even in a patient with cancer or heart disease, Covid or other factors are indeed part of the cause of death.
People with heart disease, for example, can still live another 30 years in good condition.
But Covid, and it’s affect on the heart disease, may lead to death.

From the moment we are born, EVERYONE is dying. But that death may be slowed down or sped up. Covid speeds it up. Cancer speeds it up. Etc.
Click to expand...
What we're dealing with here is the proximate and ultimate causation of death:

blogs.iu.edu

How many people has COVID-19 really killed in the U.S.?

In late August, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated their provisional death counts page to indicate that COVID-19 was the sole cause of death listed on death certificates in only 6% of cases. This fact was interpreted by some as only 6% of reported fatalities, or around...
blogs.iu.edu blogs.iu.edu

​

 
H

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
What we're dealing with here is the proximate and ultimate causation of death:

blogs.iu.edu

How many people has COVID-19 really killed in the U.S.?

In late August, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated their provisional death counts page to indicate that COVID-19 was the sole cause of death listed on death certificates in only 6% of cases. This fact was interpreted by some as only 6% of reported fatalities, or around...
blogs.iu.edu blogs.iu.edu

​

Click to expand...

Proximate cause is defined as "but for" causation in most circumstances. In the State of New York, where I practice, proximate cause is defined as a "substantial cause" and it is recognized that an event may have more than one proximate cause.

So if someone has cancer, but then they take a downturn when they contract Covid, and their body is no longer able to recover from the infection, eventually leading to a respiratory arrest -- Then the proximate causes would be Covid, cancer and respiratory arrest.

The point of the article you cite is correct, though they really aren't correctly defining the term "proximate cause." They are using it a as a stand-in for the immediate cause, the final link closest to the death. In fact, for almost every death, the most immediate cause is arrest -- cardiac or respiratory arrest. Either your heart or lungs stop. But what caused the heart or lungs to stop..

There likely are some cases where Covid was improperly listed as a cause of death: Because any time you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of events, errors will occur. There will be deaths that should have been classified as Covid that weren't and vice versa.
But there is no basis to suspect any widespread error in over-reporting Covid deaths. (There is basis to suspect under-reporting early on, simply because we weren't testing much).
 
T

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
What we're dealing with here is the proximate and ultimate causation of death:

blogs.iu.edu

How many people has COVID-19 really killed in the U.S.?

In late August, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated their provisional death counts page to indicate that COVID-19 was the sole cause of death listed on death certificates in only 6% of cases. This fact was interpreted by some as only 6% of reported fatalities, or around...
blogs.iu.edu blogs.iu.edu

​

Click to expand...
Why are we arguing this again? Look you’re free to think that the doctors AROUND THE WORLD are in on the conspiracy to use Covid to explain the deaths done by the hands of the lizard people who are invading and colonizing earth but don’t expect me to join you.

Something caused a massive increase in deaths last year and if you’re going to claim it’s not Covid you better have a good alternative explanation otherwise I’m just going to write you off as believing in lizard people.
 
spaldingclan

spaldingclan

Active Member
Phil12 said:
Optimists are always looking for the best outcome and, as a result, they are often disappointed when things don't turn out for the best. Pessimists, on the other hand, always expect the worst and are often pleased when outcomes turn out to be better than expected. :):):) It's kind of a glass half full, half empty thing.
Click to expand...
the pessimists on this board expect the worst and when they arent worse, complain that is is not getting worse
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Good news:




Bad (but expected) news:




An announcement is expected on Monday regarding travel for fully vaccinated Canadians. As of now, 19% of those 12+ have had 2 doses.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised with the border closure extension. I personally think it won't open til fall. Mainly due to Canada wanting a vaccine passport.
 
sullyinMT

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
havoc315 said:
... but... what...... if..... it actually was lizard people?
Click to expand...
Well, that's what Loki's been calling the Time Keepers. If this is the sacred timeline and not some sadistic chaos branch, then that's exactly who it is. ;)

1624050223497.png
 
Wendy Pleakley

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
I'm not surprised with the border closure extension. I personally think it won't open til fall. Mainly due to Canada wanting a vaccine passport.
Click to expand...

I think it will be a little sooner, especially with Canada having sufficient second doses as of July.

The announcement next week should be to remove quarantine requirements for vaccinated Canadians returning to Canada.

They noted they people will be able to include proof of vaccination in an app prior to any formal vaccine passport, so that could be enough to allow land crossings in the interim.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Having just returned home after a quick 1 1/2 day trip and visiting AK, DHS and Epcot, I just wanted to say how amazing the experience was now that WDW is almost back to normal. Practically no guests wearing masks. Less than 1% of adults and I literally saw three families that had the adults unmasked but kids masked. It was great to be able to speak to CMs who weren't wearing masks today, outdoors at least, and getting to actually share a smile.

The rides were more enjoyable without a mask on. The launch on RnRC felt faster when the wind actually hits your whole face. I'll always appreciate my "mask pass" visits just after the reopening when everything was walk on but everything was better without a mask.

It was great to feel like normal on rides without skipping seats or rows and to have an exciting pre-show experience on RotR without being assigned a spot to stand on in the rooms. I'm really thankful that they took the plexiglass off of the rides. We were in the back row on RotR and I can imagine it would have sucked with plexiglass on there.

Anybody on this thread that is uncomfortable at WDW with unvaccinated people not wearing masks, don't go. I can assure you that there was not a vaccination rate over 99% among the guests that were there yesterday and today.

For me, besides not being required to wear a mask (I am fully vaccinate so not breaking any rules/expectations), it was really great to not feel like I'm walking around an infectious disease ward at a hospital instead of a theme park.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom