Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

No not a chance. Another poster was suggesting the US should be in Lockdown until 75% of the total population is vaccinated. We definitely are not doing anything like that. Assuming cases don’t spike wildly, there will be little or no Covid restrictions left by July 4.

At the current rate, there will be no restrictions by June 1 for Fully Vaccinated people.

Which is what everyone will say they are, no matter the reality.

It will only be, say the 6 to 11 year olds that have any restrictions. We'll just let them wade out into the current community spread and hope it’s low enough. Each one on their own.

 

[MrMcDuck]

We'll see about it being an "issue". We have reason to believe that there will be a winter spike. And there will likely be a different variant that is dominant. And many of the anti-vaxxers will remain so. Thus, it may be an issue again in some sense.

But if that poster is fully vaccinated, there is no reason for him or her to personally be worried. Thus far, the vaccines have done reasonably well with all variants. And they will also create shots to cover variants if they do become a problem.

And, this being America, almost nowhere will go into lockdown or mandatory mask mode again no matter how bad it gets. So, what we've been going through is over.

 

[Flugell]

So, we may be approaching one of the greatest achievements in modern times. For a disease that was unknown to humanity only about 18 months ago, has now killed over 3 million people worldwide, sickened over 162 million, caused untold morbidity and societal disruption, we miraculously now have the tools at our disposal to end this scourge. Slowly, we seem to be winning the battle, both against the disease itself, and against those who would rather sow fear and distrust through misinformation, minimization and outright lies than join the good fight. I thank everyone here who has engaged on the side of progress to beat this demon... GoofGoof, Helenabear, ImperfectPixie, Havoc, Touchdown, SirWalterRaleigh, and numerous others that I can't think of right now. You've been patient, presented reasonable arguments, engaged with people, educated and served as examples. I like to think that because this is a site devoted to Disney, you've reached far more people than just those who contribute here. We haven't always all agreed, but we've beaten back the deniers, the anti-vaxxers, the Qanons and all the other conspiracy theorists that would rather spread fringe theories than actually see this thing beaten.

Why am I writing this now? Because I think we're entering a new phase. The anti-vaxxers, although they've done their usual damage, are slowly losing the battle for the adult population. The evidence for the success of these vaccines is so overwhelming that it takes an increasingly warped worldview to deny it, and they're all but grasping for straws at this point (the latest is "but they're still experimental!"). But now, having just about lost the battle with adults, they're moving to a more soft target- children. More specifically, parents' fears for their children. They will use every trick in the book to seed just enough doubt into vulnerable parents' minds about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. They are already starting with downplaying the risks for COVID-19 to children, and although I am the first to readily admit that COVID-19 is not as starkly dangerous to children as to adults, emerging data is starting to show that it is worse than some more familiar vaccine-preventable diseases like measles or influenza. And there will be no herd immunity for the most vulnerable members of our society, including newborns, unless we eliminate the disease in children too.

I'm already heartened to see how readily teenagers are taking to the vaccine. They missed key milestones in their lives over the past year that they'll simply never get back, and they seem to understand the simple relationship that vaccination = eventual return to normal better than many adults.

Now, one big caveat... we don't yet know the safety and efficacy of the vaccines in younger children. Although I have no doubt the same patterns will hold for adults, we first need to complete all the proper steps. We've seen over the past several months that the processes and procedures we follow to ensure effective and safe vaccine development and deployment work exactly as intended. Let's trust that the same process will deliver results for our children as well.

What motivated this long post today? Seeing this picture on my phone again today: (IN PROGRESS, I NEED TO SWITCH DEVICES TO ADD THE PHOTO)View attachment 557710

Must be the day for super posts!!!

 

[GoofGoof]

At the current rate, there will be no restrictions by June 1 for Fully Vaccinated people.

Which is what everyone will say they are, no matter the reality.

It will only be, say the 6 to 11 year olds that have any restrictions. We'll just let them wade out into the current community spread and hope it’s low enough. Each one on their own.

It depends on where you are. CA and NJ and some other states haven’t gone full in yet. Ironically those states are where we need to be for vaccinations.

 

[Chi84]

Yeah, it was definitely not a move that anyone should have expected from them. They want you to plan your meals 6 months in advance, reserve rides 60 days out and even check into your hotel room 30 days in advance. It’s the ultimate uber planning environment. This move was out of character. I saw that they dropped temp screenings early and implemented most of the distancing changes including the removal of some plexiglass too. Definitely a wholesale change effective immediately.

I actually think that they may have decided to do it to avoid a riot of Covid denying, anti-mask people from converging on the resort on a fixed date in the future. Springing it suddenly on guests less than 12 hours before the parks open was probably a bit unsettling for some guests currently there, but it‘s better than hosting an unofficial anti-mask rally if they set a future date for the change. Beat to rip the band aid off quickly and with no notice.

I think they did it because current scientific knowledge does not support the idea that COVID is transmitted by people walking past each other outdoors. They are keeping the mask requirement in queues and indoors, which is in line with what is needed for safety.

From the start people were praising WDW for following CDC guidelines and WDW is continuing to follow them. People who were doubtful from the beginning about outdoor transmission had to suck it up and wear masks because those were the guidelines even though they didn't like or agree with them. Now people are going to have to deal with the CDC's revised guidelines. Disney can't change what's in people's minds - they just have to go with what the health experts are advising.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

It depends on where you are. CA and NJ and some other states haven’t gone full in yet. Ironically those states are where we need to be for vaccinations.

MA has tweaked the mask mandate a tad...

Governor Baker issued a revised Order effective April 30, 2021 requiring people to wear masks or face-coverings in indoor public places and outdoors when they are unable to maintain 6 feet from other people.

• Face coverings are still required at all times in indoor public places.
• Face coverings also continue to be required at all times at events, whether held indoors or outdoors and whether held in a public space or private home, except for when eating or drinking.
• At smaller gatherings in private homes, face coverings are recommended but not required.

 

[GoofGoof]

MA has tweaked the mask mandate a tad...

Governor Baker issued a revised Order effective April 30, 2021 requiring people to wear masks or face-coverings in indoor public places and outdoors when they are unable to maintain 6 feet from other people.

• Face coverings are still required at all times in indoor public places.
• Face coverings also continue to be required at all times at events, whether held indoors or outdoors and whether held in a public space or private home, except for when eating or drinking.
• At smaller gatherings in private homes, face coverings are recommended but not required.

There are 18 states now where more than half of the total population has gotten at least 1 shot. Assuming roughly 75% of the population is adults that means roughly 2/3 of adults in those states have 1 shot. The irony is that any states left with Covid restrictions are among those 18. The 32 states where the majority of people haven’t gotten the shot yet have little or no restrictions left. So at some point we needed to acknowledge that MA or NJ or CA keeping restrictions based on national metrics isn’t going to encourage people in Alabama to get the vaccine at all. In other words why keep restdic5ions in areas where they are least needed.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think they did it because current scientific knowledge does not support the idea that COVID is transmitted by people walking past each other outdoors. They are keeping the mask requirement in queues and indoors, which is in line with what is needed for safety.

From the start people were praising WDW for following CDC guidelines and WDW is continuing to follow them. People who were doubtful from the beginning about outdoor transmission had to suck it up and wear masks because those were the guidelines even though they didn't like or agree with them. Now people are going to have to deal with the CDC's revised guidelines. Disney can't change what's in people's minds - they just have to go with what the health experts are advising.

One thing that the CDC has been very consistent with from very early on is that the primary risk of transmission is being in close proximity to an infected person for an extended period of time. Walking past somebody briefly was never considered high risk, indoors or outdoors.

Queues are a different animal because even though you are moving, you are near the same stranger for an (increasingly) extended period of time. Add in the indoor portions with potentially poor ventilation and I can understand keeping precautions in queues a little longer.

Once actually on a ride, the risk is probably pretty low due to short duration and good ventilation caused by vehicle movement.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think they did it because current scientific knowledge does not support the idea that COVID is transmitted by people walking past each other outdoors. They are keeping the mask requirement in queues and indoors, which is in line with what is needed for safety.

From the start people were praising WDW for following CDC guidelines and WDW is continuing to follow them. People who were doubtful from the beginning about outdoor transmission had to suck it up and wear masks because those were the guidelines even though they didn't like or agree with them. Now people are going to have to deal with the CDC's revised guidelines. Disney can't change what's in people's minds - they just have to go with what the health experts are advising.

I agree 100% that the CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated people make total sense and are following the science. I am fully vaccinated and therefore I pose little threat to the public of spreading Covid so I should not have to wear a mask. Me wearing a mask does little to slow spread. That’s the science. What Disney did is technically not following the CDC guidelines. The CDC has not said unvaccinated people are safe to gather outside in large groups without a mask. I understand that there is some science behind that policy, but not what the CDC has recommended. Ultimately for Disney the only way to effectively follow the CDC guidelines is to ask for proof of vaccination which they won’t do.

I posted a while back that the 3 options were:

1. Ask for proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to not where a mask
2. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume nobody is and continue to require masks
3. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume everybody is and drop masks

They picked #3 but a hybrid approach which only includes outdoors. Technically the CDC guidelines allow for fully vaccinated people to not wear a mask even indoors at WDW. They are following the Orange County phase 2 plan so I assume once Orange County goes to phase 3 which is going to be really soon if percent positive drops a little then all masks will be dropped at WDW.

 

[Incomudro]

Yes, for sure. I don’t disagree that this approach is unproven and a gamble, but the other poster is suggesting we should have waited until 75% of the total population was vaccinated before dropping any restrictions. Essentially go into lockdown and stay there until 90%+ of eligible people get the shot or kids are approved and vaccinated in the late Fall or early Winter. In places like Israel they began removing restrictions as cases dropped and vaccinations rose. They didn’t wait to hit 75% of the total population, they are only at 60% now and their full economy has been opened for months and they have dropped masks outdoors. They still have indoor masking and some use of vaccine passports but they certainly didn’t keep all restrictions until 75% of the population was vaccinated.

Certainly better protection than masks, but it seems some people (even vaccinated ones) had a higher comfort level when people weren't vaccinated - but they were all wearing masks, than they do being vaccinated, unmasked, and around others unmasked - both vaccinated and not.
I find this odd.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I agree 100% that the CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated people make total sense and are following the science. I am fully vaccinated and therefore I pose little threat to the public of spreading Covid so I should not have to wear a mask. Me wearing a mask does little to slow spread. That’s the science. What Disney did is technically not following the CDC guidelines. The CDC has not said unvaccinated people are safe to gather outside in large groups without a mask. I understand that there is some science behind that policy, but not what the CDC has recommended. Ultimately for Disney the only way to effectively follow the CDC guidelines is to ask for proof of vaccination which they won’t do.

I posted a while back that the 3 options were:

1. Ask for proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to not where a mask
2. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume nobody is and continue to require masks
3. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume everybody is and drop masks

They picked #3 but a hybrid approach which only includes outdoors. Technically the CDC guidelines allow for fully vaccinated people to not wear a mask even indoors at WDW. They are following the Orange County phase 2 plan so I assume once Orange County goes to phase 3 which is going to be really soon if percent positive drops a little then all masks will be dropped at WDW.

The CDC really created a horrible situation, IMO.

 

[GoofGoof]

Certainly better protection than masks, but it seems some people (even vaccinated ones) had a higher comfort level when people weren't vaccinated - but they were all wearing masks, than they do being vaccinated, unmasked, and around others unmasked - both vaccinated and not.
I find this odd.

My kids aren’t fully vaccinated so I felt better having them out in public settings when everyone had masks. I don’t for a minute trust that only fully vaccinated people are going around without masks and at WDW that’s not even the rule. If you are unvaccinated you don’t need to wear a mask. My guess is if you see someone with a mask on outside at WDW they are fully vaccinated. I would also guess almost any adult at WDW who is unvaccinated is not wearing a mask outside today.

 

[bryanfze55]

If we’re going with the stance that the CDC makes health recommendations and does not play a role in public policy, then technically all the CDC did was state that vaccinated people can go unmasked - which is obviously a sound health statement. Yes, there’s concerns about how to distinguish between vaccinated and unvaccinated people - but isn’t it the policy makers’ job to figure that out? They make the rules.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

If we’re going with the stance that the CDC makes health recommendations and does not play a role in public policy, then technically all the CDC did was state that vaccinated people can go unmasked - which is obviously a sound health statement. Yes, there’s concerns about how to distinguish between vaccinated and unvaccinated people - but isn’t it the policy makers’ job to figure that out? They make the rules.

Yes, and some of them have/are trying to make sure we're not able to do that.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I agree 100% that the CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated people make total sense and are following the science. I am fully vaccinated and therefore I pose little threat to the public of spreading Covid so I should not have to wear a mask. Me wearing a mask does little to slow spread. That’s the science. What Disney did is technically not following the CDC guidelines. The CDC has not said unvaccinated people are safe to gather outside in large groups without a mask. I understand that there is some science behind that policy, but not what the CDC has recommended. Ultimately for Disney the only way to effectively follow the CDC guidelines is to ask for proof of vaccination which they won't can't do.

Slight edit to make it more closely align to the current situation.

 

[plawren2]

So you don't believe that the discovery of a new virus and the sudden influx of hospital patients because of that virus would create demand in excess of the usual supply?

were did I say that demand would not exceed usual supply????? yes that clearly happened but point was mask supply was not factor in CDC recommendations about whether to wear one or not

 

[Polkadotdress]

Despite all of the worry about it being mask-less free-for-all in public today, I was pleasantly surprised by the not seeing a single mask-free person in public while running errands this morning.

Pandemic is NOT over!

 

[GoofGoof]

The CDC really created a horrible situation, IMO.

From a national prospective as I said before 18 states have over 50% of their total population or roughly 2/3 of their adults vaccinated with at least 1 shot. About half the population of the country lives in those 18 states. At some point we were going to have to turn the page on changes like this. It is fair to debate if we should have waited a little longer but ultimately they made the call now.

 

[GoofGoof]

Slight edit to make it more closely align to the current situation.

Not true. In FL it is illegal to deny someone access to WDW for not being vaccinated it is definitely not illegal for Disney to require masks for all guests and then allow an exception to the mask rule by showing proof of vaccination. Then nobody is denied access and all sharing of vaccination status is purely voluntary. Disney won’t do that. Legally they certainly could.

 

[Willmark]

Here’s a article from March 2020. Really creepy now when you read it I think before the —— hit the fan. It delves into whether the CDC would change from only the sick wear a mask to all people. Also brings up the shortages of masks and many other things. But as they say the data is coming in and they will keep adjusting as necessary. A look back in time.

Should We All Be Wearing Masks In Public? Health Experts Revisit The Question

There are rumblings that U.S. health officials may start encouraging Americans to wear face masks to cut down on asymptomatic spread. But with continued shortages, it's not clear how we'd do that.

www.npr.org

Here’s another good look at the timeline:

The CDC's Ever-Shifting COVID-19 Advice Shows the Agency Is Ill-Suited To Decide Which Risks Are Acceptable

The CDC's recommendations have never been purely a matter of science.

reason.com