Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[JD80]

So I was totally wrong when I was talking about Disney being able to change on a dime with masks and stuff.

 

[JD80]

I'm surprised by the number of vaccinated people who are afraid to remove their masks because the people around them may not be vaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the vaccine is providing the kind of near-complete protection that is rarely seen in this world. The CDC's new guidelines are simply acknowledging and reflecting that fact.

The CDC gives guidelines but is not good about giving the reasons behind them. At the beginning, experts knew nothing about the virus and how it is transmitted, so measures were adopted that we later abandoned as unnecessary. Adopting those measures was the right thing to do at the time, given the state of scientific knowledge.

People are assuming outdoor mask mandates are being removed based on how many people are vaccinated and the number of infections. If that's the case, then I can understand people suggesting that the CDC should have waited until more people have had a chance to be vaccinated, the vaccine is available to children, the degree of spread is less, etc.

But I don't think that's what happened. These outdoor mask mandates were adopted at a time when little was known about transmission and there was no vaccine to stop or even slow down the virus. Going over the top made sense at that time. Since then, studies and real life experience have shown that outdoor transmission is exceedingly rare. It's not that we have now arrived at the point where masks outdoors can be safely removed; it's more that the science has developed to the point where we know this is not how the virus is transmitted and masks outdoors were never needed in the first place. (I'm not talking about large crowds, because the CDC is still recommending masks in that circumstance.)

It's psychology. For example, my wife and I lived in NJ last year during the worst portions of the pandemic and we were terrified. Empty shelves, lack of food. I couldn't buy cheese same weeks. Cleaning supplies were gone, couldn't find hand sanitizer except toxic crap from Mexico.

We adapted. We learned. We just stayed away from people. We created bubbles, we wiped down groceries for the longest time. Because we didn't know for sure. People were getting sick all over the place. Roads and stores were empty.

I know some people out in the mid-west or in smaller more rural areas of the country have zero clue what people in urban and ex-urban and the suburbs went through (not to mention the whole political thread through the whole thing).

So it's fear. Fear of change. Last year was trauma for a lot of people and some people can't just go back to normal right away. It takes time. So for anyone out there "surprised" people that are vaxx'd won't take off their masks or want to chide "the other side" about "following the science" where you want to throw it in their face for some reason. Stop.

Just Stop.

People need time to heal. People who have lost loved ones or friends, lost jobs etc. It takes time and healing to get back out in the world. Some people take years to recover from a ended relationship. We just watched 600k+ of our fellow citizens die in the last year.

If you're a "my freedoms" type, get vaxxed and don't wear a mask and be happy.
If you're a "follow the science" type it's time to celebrate the achievement of modern medicine.
If you're scared and uncomfortable keep wearing that mask and get back out in the world.
if you know someone who is vaxxed and still terrified, reach out to them and help them ease themselves back in to society.

It's time to start healing our own humanity now. So to everyone yelling at each other on a message board about masks, cut the bulls**t and chill out.

 

[ElvisMickey]

It's psychology. For example, my wife and I lived in NJ last year during the worst portions of the pandemic and we were terrified. Empty shelves, lack of food. I couldn't buy cheese same weeks. Cleaning supplies were gone, couldn't find hand sanitizer except toxic crap from Mexico.

We adapted. We learned. We just stayed away from people. We created bubbles, we wiped down groceries for the longest time. Because we didn't know for sure. People were getting sick all over the place. Roads and stores were empty.

I know some people out in the mid-west or in smaller more rural areas of the country have zero clue what people in urban and ex-urban and the suburbs went through (not to mention the whole political thread through the whole thing).

So it's fear. Fear of change. Last year was trauma for a lot of people and some people can't just go back to normal right away. It takes time. So for anyone out there "surprised" people that are vaxx'd won't take off their masks or want to chide "the other side" about "following the science" where you want to throw it in their face for some reason. Stop.

Just Stop.

People need time to heal. People who have lost loved ones or friends, lost jobs etc. It takes time and healing to get back out in the world. Some people take years to recover from a ended relationship. We just watched 600k+ of our fellow citizens die in the last year.

If you're a "my freedoms" type, get vaxxed and don't wear a mask and be happy.
If you're a "follow the science" type it's time to celebrate the achievement of modern medicine.
If you're scared and uncomfortable keep wearing that mask and get back out in the world.
if you know someone who is vaxxed and still terrified, reach out to them and help them ease themselves back in to society.

It's time to start healing our own humanity now. So to everyone yelling at each other on a message board about masks, cut the bulls**t and chill out.

Also time to drop those extra 20 pounds put on since last year. Now people will be able to see how pudgy many people’s faces have gotten lol. Including myself

 

[JD80]

Also time to drop those extra 20 pounds put on since last year. Now people will be able to see how pudgy many people’s faces have gotten lol. Including myself

It's why I have a beard.

 

[MrMcDuck]

Yeah, the constant "well Israel..." ignores the fact that Israel has a completely different national culture to begin with. We are talking about a country where by law everyone has to have a bomb shelter in their home, every citizen is required to participate in military service, and guards walk around airports with machine guns. They live in a society where temporary lockdowns were a regular, normal thing to begin with, pre-pandemic, where a siren tells them they need to go to their bomb shelter.

Comparing what has happened there with this is a completely different situation than the US is under in terms of the public being compliant to begin with.

Yep. Without getting into politics, Israel is very different culturally from the US. Beyond that, it's a small country and has only nine million people.

 

[MrMcDuck]

IF Americans could be trusted to follow the rules, I think most who are freaking out a little right now wouldn't be. It's the large number of people we've been seeing flout the rules for the last 14 months that have us so concerned.

It's entirely rational to be concerned for the still-to-be-vaccinated and the country in general. The USA is not alone in having anti-vaxxers, but it has some additional, uh, very American problems that make things like this worse.

As I said earlier, I'll be avoiding entirely stores with stupid, greedy mask policies for two more weeks until I'm in the clear. (Millennials couldn't even get vaccinated here until April.) Then it's off with the mask everywhere and back to normal. But my concern is not for myself.

Fortunately, the numbers will continue to get better as more are getting vaccinated and COVID shows signs of seasonality and we are entering the summer months. Unfortunately, we could have done even better and more will needlessly die. But what's done is done.

And now we wait for winter.

 

[Flugell]

It's psychology. For example, my wife and I lived in NJ last year during the worst portions of the pandemic and we were terrified. Empty shelves, lack of food. I couldn't buy cheese same weeks. Cleaning supplies were gone, couldn't find hand sanitizer except toxic crap from Mexico.

We adapted. We learned. We just stayed away from people. We created bubbles, we wiped down groceries for the longest time. Because we didn't know for sure. People were getting sick all over the place. Roads and stores were empty.

I know some people out in the mid-west or in smaller more rural areas of the country have zero clue what people in urban and ex-urban and the suburbs went through (not to mention the whole political thread through the whole thing).

So it's fear. Fear of change. Last year was trauma for a lot of people and some people can't just go back to normal right away. It takes time. So for anyone out there "surprised" people that are vaxx'd won't take off their masks or want to chide "the other side" about "following the science" where you want to throw it in their face for some reason. Stop.

Just Stop.

People need time to heal. People who have lost loved ones or friends, lost jobs etc. It takes time and healing to get back out in the world. Some people take years to recover from a ended relationship. We just watched 600k+ of our fellow citizens die in the last year.

If you're a "my freedoms" type, get vaxxed and don't wear a mask and be happy.
If you're a "follow the science" type it's time to celebrate the achievement of modern medicine.
If you're scared and uncomfortable keep wearing that mask and get back out in the world.
if you know someone who is vaxxed and still terrified, reach out to them and help them ease themselves back in to society.

It's time to start healing our own humanity now. So to everyone yelling at each other on a message board about masks, cut the bulls**t and chill out.

If it was within my power I would award you the Gold Cup for post of the day, or even best post ever!
You summed up the situation in a calm, reasonable and compassionate manner.
Thank You.

 

[plawren2]

March 2020, masks were in short supply, at that time no masks required for the general public:

Surgeon General Urges the Public to Stop Buying Face Masks (Published 2020)

“Seriously people,” the surgeon general said on Twitter, warning that a run on the masks could risk a shortage harmful to public health professionals.

www.nytimes.com

Then when supplies became available later on, its mask up everyone!

As to science changing policy later? Sure. It also happened to coincide with increased capacity of PPE more so than frontline health care workers.

Ask yourself this: if the CDC discovers at the time that masks do indeed limit spread but there aren’t masks to hand out what kind of might that have caused? Oh. That’s right there are instructions on the (CDC approvedwebsite on how to make your own.

3 Ways to Make Your Own CDC-Approved Face Masks

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention now recommends using face coverings in public settings like grocery stores and pharmacies to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus and its associated disease COVID-19, but it’s important not to compete with medical professionals and other...

news.yahoo.com

Here’s the kicker for me. I think that was actually a good move, people not being reliant on the government is a good thing.

So in order:
1. Initially- no or limited mask availability. Save it for the front line healthcare workers. Lowe’s, Home Depot, construction companies (at least around here) start donating their supplies; feds implore people to not buy them. After a while places like Lowe’s and Home Depot remove even the shelf tags from the stores. Websites list them as for healthcare workers only.

2. Oh crap moment sets in. This can be mitigated by wearing masks but not enough to go around. Instruct people how to make them while production ramps up.

3. Enough are in circulation, mask up!

Lastly as to the CDC changing based on info? Sure as more info becomes available they should do so, kinda like this:

A Misleading C.D.C. Number (Published 2021)

We have a special edition of the newsletter on a misleading C.D.C. statistic.

www.nytimes.com

TLDR: sure you can buy into that the didn’t know about transmission via air (I’m not buying that for one second). It’s also highly likely they didn’t recommend it knowing what it would do to a nation that is now panicky by nature if they could t provide masks.

YMMV

Signed someone who started wearing masks in early late/February early March of 2020 before the CDC did their flip/flop of what to do.

There is no evidence CDC recommendations on masks was based on their availability

 

[ImperfectPixie]

There is no evidence CDC recommendations on masks was based on their availability

So you don't believe that the discovery of a new virus and the sudden influx of hospital patients because of that virus would create demand in excess of the usual supply?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

So you don't believe that the discovery of a new virus and the sudden influx of hospital patients because of that virus would create demand in excess of the usual supply?

Here’s a article from March 2020. Really creepy now when you read it I think before the —— hit the fan. It delves into whether the CDC would change from only the sick wear a mask to all people. Also brings up the shortages of masks and many other things. But as they say the data is coming in and they will keep adjusting as necessary. A look back in time.

Should We All Be Wearing Masks In Public? Health Experts Revisit The Question

There are rumblings that U.S. health officials may start encouraging Americans to wear face masks to cut down on asymptomatic spread. But with continued shortages, it's not clear how we'd do that.

www.npr.org

 

[DisneyFan32]

Yes, for sure. I don’t disagree that this approach is unproven and a gamble, but the other poster is suggesting we should have waited until 75% of the total population was vaccinated before dropping any restrictions. Essentially go into lockdown and stay there until 90%+ of eligible people get the shot or kids are approved and vaccinated in the late Fall or early Winter. In places like Israel they began removing restrictions as cases dropped and vaccinations rose. They didn’t wait to hit 75% of the total population, they are only at 60% now and their full economy has been opened for months and they have dropped masks outdoors. They still have indoor masking and some use of vaccine passports but they certainly didn’t keep all restrictions until 75% of the population was vaccinated.

You saying we have go back to lockdown soon in US? Noooo...

 

[ImperfectPixie]

You saying we have go back to lockdown soon in US? Noooo...

Nope. He's just talking about the approach to removing some restrictions in the US compared to Israel.

 

[DisneyFan32]

It's entirely rational to be concerned for the still-to-be-vaccinated and the country in general. The USA is not alone in having anti-vaxxers, but it has some additional, uh, very American problems that make things like this worse.

As I said earlier, I'll be avoiding entirely stores with stupid, greedy mask policies for two more weeks until I'm in the clear. (Millennials couldn't even get vaccinated here until April.) Then it's off with the mask everywhere and back to normal. But my concern is not for myself.

Fortunately, the numbers will continue to get better as more are getting vaccinated and COVID shows signs of seasonality and we are entering the summer months. Unfortunately, we could have done even better and more will needlessly die. But what's done is done.

And now we wait for winter.

I'm scared this winter now......

 

[GoofGoof]

So I was totally wrong when I was talking about Disney being able to change on a dime with masks and stuff.

Yeah, it was definitely not a move that anyone should have expected from them. They want you to plan your meals 6 months in advance, reserve rides 60 days out and even check into your hotel room 30 days in advance. It’s the ultimate uber planning environment. This move was out of character. I saw that they dropped temp screenings early and implemented most of the distancing changes including the removal of some plexiglass too. Definitely a wholesale change effective immediately.

I actually think that they may have decided to do it to avoid a riot of Covid denying, anti-mask people from converging on the resort on a fixed date in the future. Springing it suddenly on guests less than 12 hours before the parks open was probably a bit unsettling for some guests currently there, but it‘s better than hosting an unofficial anti-mask rally if they set a future date for the change. Beat to rip the band aid off quickly and with no notice.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I'm scared this winter now......

You're vaccinated...don't worry. We'll likely see a small rise in cases next winter, but nothing like what we saw this last year.

 

[GoofGoof]

You saying we have go back to lockdown soon in US? Noooo...

No not a chance. Another poster was suggesting the US should be in Lockdown until 75% of the total population is vaccinated. We definitely are not doing anything like that. Assuming cases don’t spike wildly, there will be little or no Covid restrictions left by July 4.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm scared this winter now......

No worries my man, Covid won‘t be an issue this winter in the US. We are over due for a big snow year in the NE so that is a far more likely issue. Just get your snow shovel ready.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Yeah, it was definitely not a move that anyone should have expected from them. They want you to plan your meals 6 mo ths in advance, reserve rides 60 days out and even check into your hotel room 30 days in advance. It’s the ultimate uber planning environment. This move was out of character. I saw that they dropped temp screenings early and implemented most of the distancing changes including the removal of some plexiglass.

I actually think that they may have decided to do it to avoid a riot of Covid denying, anti-mask people from converging on the resort on a fixed date in the future. Springing it suddenly on guests less than 12 hours before the parks open was probably a bit unsettling for some guests currently there, but it‘s better than hosting an unofficial anti-mask rally if they set a future date for the change. Beat to rip the band aid off quickly and with no notice.

Also it wasn’t right to do it to the possible thousands of people that booked their trip knowing that masks would be in place. Safe or not there are many that counted on that for their families only for that to be sprung on them without warning. I know, they can still wear a mask but that’s not the point.

 

[Heppenheimer]

So, we may be approaching one of the greatest achievements in modern times. For a disease that was unknown to humanity only about 18 months ago, has now killed over 3 million people worldwide, sickened over 162 million, caused untold morbidity and societal disruption, we miraculously now have the tools at our disposal to end this scourge. Slowly, we seem to be winning the battle, both against the disease itself, and against those who would rather sow fear and distrust through misinformation, minimization and outright lies than join the good fight. I thank everyone here who has engaged on the side of progress to beat this demon... GoofGoof, Helenabear, ImperfectPixie, Havoc, Touchdown, SirWalterRaleigh, and numerous others that I can't think of right now. You've been patient, presented reasonable arguments, engaged with people, educated and served as examples. I like to think that because this is a site devoted to Disney, you've reached far more people than just those who contribute here. We haven't always all agreed, but we've beaten back the deniers, the anti-vaxxers, the Qanons and all the other conspiracy theorists that would rather spread fringe theories than actually see this thing beaten.

Why am I writing this now? Because I think we're entering a new phase. The anti-vaxxers, although they've done their usual damage, are slowly losing the battle for the adult population. The evidence for the success of these vaccines is so overwhelming that it takes an increasingly warped worldview to deny it, and they're all but grasping for straws at this point (the latest is "but they're still experimental!"). But now, having just about lost the battle with adults, they're moving to a more soft target- children. More specifically, parents' fears for their children. They will use every trick in the book to seed just enough doubt into vulnerable parents' minds about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. They are already starting with downplaying the risks for COVID-19 to children, and although I am the first to readily admit that COVID-19 is not as starkly dangerous to children as to adults, emerging data is starting to show that it is worse than some more familiar vaccine-preventable diseases like measles or influenza. And there will be no herd immunity for the most vulnerable members of our society, including newborns, unless we eliminate the disease in children too.

I'm already heartened to see how readily teenagers are taking to the vaccine. They missed key milestones in their lives over the past year that they'll simply never get back, and they seem to understand the simple relationship that vaccination = eventual return to normal better than many adults.

Now, one big caveat... we don't yet know the safety and efficacy of the vaccines in younger children. Although I have no doubt the same patterns will hold for adults, we first need to complete all the proper steps. We've seen over the past several months that the processes and procedures we follow to ensure effective and safe vaccine development and deployment work exactly as intended. Let's trust that the same process will deliver results for our children as well.

What motivated this long post today? Seeing this picture on my phone again:

This photo was taken at Storytellers Cafe at the Grand Californian at Disneyland on March 11th, 2020. By this point, the imminent closure of Disneyland had already been announced. The conference that was the reason for me traveling to Disneyland with my family had already been canceled, so we were riding out the remaining days at the parks until they closed. Seeing the look of both recognition and pure joy in my son's eyes, who was not quite 18 months old at the time, as Mickey came to our table has been one of my fondest memories of recently. I want him and other children to be able to return to a world where moments like these are again possible. My son has Down's syndrome, which puts him at a higher vulnerability to COVID-19 and other infectious diseases. He will need these vaccines as soon as he can get them to make up for over a year's time of lost socialization. Unless we have true herd immunity, children with cancer, cystic fibrosis, or other conditions of vulnerability will never know this joy that he was lucky enough to experience just in the nick of time.

We will soon have the means to return to this world. Let's do it!

 

[mmascari]

No not a chance. Another poster was suggesting the US should be in Lockdown until 75% of the total population is vaccinated. We definitely are not doing anything like that. Assuming cases don’t spike wildly, there will be little or no Covid restrictions left by July 4.

At the current rate, there will be no restrictions by June 1 for Fully Vaccinated people.

Which is what everyone will say they are, no matter the reality.

It will only be, say the 6 to 11 year olds that have any restrictions. We'll just let them wade out into the current community spread and hope it’s low enough. Each one on their own.