Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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havoc315

Well-Known Member
DisneyCane said:
He said he thought about maybe getting one of the mRNA vaccines but "why bother because they're just going to keep this stuff going," meaning the masks and restrictions that we had been discussing earlier.

The non-carrot messaging has been wrong from day one from Fauci on down. If the powers that be don't start dangling carrots real quick there is no chance of getting to herd immunity through vaccines.
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Huh? But that hasn't been the message from Fauci or any other agency. That's a total lie. Get the vaccine -- and you can stop wearing the mask with your friends and family, stop wearing the mask with other vaccinated people.
Fauci has been very very clear on this.

It's a total like that they will "keep this stuff going" -- It's been clear from Fauci and everyone else, we can go back to normal after enough people get vaccinated.

Sounds like you need to correct the people, make sure they realize they are believing total lies.

Are you saying you support a vaccine passport? Where people with proof of vaccination can go anywhere, while unvaccinated people must abide by the restrictions?
 
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mmascari

Well-Known Member
ParkerLoLs said:
This app is for NY but I'm sure other states (who take COVID seriously) will roll them out. So, not Florida.
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sullivan.kscott said:
Probably. But, I'd like to see the states that do use them allow me to update their app with my data. Like a visit to HI or to Broadway when they open. Or, should any of the Vegas venues adopt their use. Adding my "pass" to the MGM app, for example, would be awesome, even if I was in a state that didn't openly participate like NY is right now.
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From @havoc315 's description, the app uses the NY vaccine records systems to verify that you've been vaccinated from the providers data. They're not trusting what anyone just sends them. They're actively taking what someone submits and matching it to specific provider data. No match, no passport. That makes getting one of these robust and very hard to cheat. Assuming the validation app shows something that can be confirmed that it's you and not someone else's pass, validation can be robust too.

Which means this system requires the state to have a vaccine tracking system already built. And that they add an interface to it for the matching and confirmation. It's not going to be consistent from state to state, and very difficult to cross states.

I went to state site to get my shot, and they provided me proof beyond the card via a web page. So, they've clearly got the data, if not an interface to use it. But, if I had gotten the shot at a county site, or a pharmacy, I'm not sure where the data would have gone, if it ends up in that same state system with all the same identifiers or not. Or, if it would be in whatever different system, even if demographic data was shared to the state. Every state is likely different for this.
 
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havoc315

Well-Known Member
mmascari said:
From @havoc315 's description, the app uses the NY vaccine records systems to verify that you've been vaccinated from the providers data. They're not trusting what anyone just sends them. They're actively taking what someone submits and matching it to specific provider data. No match, no passport. That makes getting one of these robust and very hard to cheat. Assuming the validation app shows something that can be confirmed that it's you and not someone else's pass, validation can be robust too.
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Correct -- The validation is a scannable QR vode which verifies with the state database.
It's then a question of checking photo ID to match the person to the phone. Photo ID to make sure you are the same person as the passport.


mmascari said:
Which means this system requires the state to have a vaccine tracking system already built. And that they add an interface to it for the matching and confirmation. It's not going to be consistent from state to state, and very difficult to cross states.

I went to state site to get my shot, and they provided me proof beyond the card via a web page. So, they've clearly got the data, if not an interface to use it. But, if I had gotten the shot at a county site, or a pharmacy, I'm not sure where the data would have gone, if it ends up in that same state system with all the same identifiers or not. Or, if it would be in whatever different system, even if demographic data was shared to the state. Every state is likely different for this.
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Every state is required to collect the data and report it to CDC. Though some states strip away some of the identifying information in what they report to the CDC.
 
sullyinMT

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
mmascari said:
From @havoc315 's description, the app uses the NY vaccine records systems to verify that you've been vaccinated from the providers data. They're not trusting what anyone just sends them. They're actively taking what someone submits and matching it to specific provider data. No match, no passport. That makes getting one of these robust and very hard to cheat. Assuming the validation app shows something that can be confirmed that it's you and not someone else's pass, validation can be robust too.

Which means this system requires the state to have a vaccine tracking system already built. And that they add an interface to it for the matching and confirmation. It's not going to be consistent from state to state, and very difficult to cross states.

I went to state site to get my shot, and they provided me proof beyond the card via a web page. So, they've clearly got the data, if not an interface to use it. But, if I had gotten the shot at a county site, or a pharmacy, I'm not sure where the data would have gone, if it ends up in that same state system with all the same identifiers or not. Or, if it would be in whatever different system, even if demographic data was shared to the state. Every state is likely different for this.
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Fair, but let’s take a few examples. Pharmacy chains have national software networks (I was a tech at CVS and Walgreen’s through school) that have been around and improved for decades. So I’m guessing they could verify those pretty easily.

In mine and my wife’s case, the vaccine was delivered via a health network with cross-talk capability via Epic (MyChart). Things can get a bit wonky when sharing data outside of a given instance, but it seems Excelsior has figured that out. Other EHR’s exist, but if NYH can share the data, so too should any equipped health provider.

I’m just saying there are ways. Not sure how CA plans to help operators enforce their out of state visitors, but they feel confident it can be done.
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
havoc315 said:
Huh? But that hasn't been the message from Fauci or any other agency. That's a total lie. Get the vaccine -- and you can stop wearing the mask with your friends and family, stop wearing the mask with other vaccinated people.
Fauci has been very very clear on this.

It's a total like that they will "keep this stuff going" -- It's been clear from Fauci and everyone else, we can go back to normal after enough people get vaccinated.

Sounds like you need to correct the people, make sure they realize they are believing total lies.

Are you saying you support a vaccine passport? Where people with proof of vaccination can go anywhere, while unvaccinated people must abide by the restrictions?
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The powers that be don't say that "you" can personally do anything after being vaccinated. They say quite the opposite. The Fauci/CDC messaging has been when in public you still have to wear a mask, socially distance, etc., etc.

The part I have tried to correct them on is the misinformation about the mRNA vaccines. The "keep it going" stuff isn't a lie. It is a perception and I don't disagree with it. There are people on this thread who are constantly saying that these measures must remain in place until cases reach some level that is "low enough."

I support a voluntary "vaccine pass" that allows you to be exempt from following any COVID-related rule. I don't think you should be restricted if you don't volunteer. For example, while traveling if I have a vaccine pass, I don't have to wear a mask in the airport or on the plane but if I don't want to have a voluntary pass then I have to follow the rule. However, I'd be adamantly against requiring a vaccine passport to travel at all.
 
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mmascari

Well-Known Member
havoc315 said:
Correct -- The validation is a scannable QR vode which verifies with the state database.
It's then a question of checking photo ID to match the person to the phone. Photo ID to make sure you are the same person as the passport.

Every state is required to collect the data and report it to CDC. Though some states strip away some of the identifying information in what they report to the CDC.
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The scannable QR code that shows your picture isn't what makes it robust though. It's that to create the code they validated with the source the data you submitted matched what the providers said they did. Without that validation, say if I could submit my "not NY" information where they would be unable to validate with my provider and have to trust what I sent them. That would let me create a record in the system with poor quality. The QR code and showing my picture would make it appear robust, but it could all be a lie.

The entire concept is dependent on "strip away some of the identifying information". Since the record provider requires that to validate instead of trust what's submitted. Without the information, that becomes impossible. Knowing NY is doing that vs just the marketing blubs makes a big difference.
 
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mmascari

Well-Known Member
sullivan.kscott said:
I’m just saying there are ways.
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I agree. They're just not as simple as "show your CDC card". With a lot of the work required all the way back when the dose was given. For instance, our trial participants need their data verifiable by the passport issuer too.

The hope was the effort and time required to create a robust system where you can trust the data more than "because I said so" would be longer than the remaining time community spread would be high. Thus, it would take longer to build the system than before it became obsolete. That doesn't look like it's going to happen now. The view today is that as complex as building a system would be, it'll be possible to finish before spread is low enough. Which is just sad. :(
 
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havoc315

Well-Known Member
DisneyCane said:
The powers that be don't say that "you" can personally do anything after being vaccinated. They say quite the opposite. The Fauci/CDC messaging has been when in public you still have to wear a mask, socially distance, etc., etc.
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That’s false. Both Fauci and the CDC have formally stated that you can socialize with other vaccinated people without masks and social distancing. It’s right on their website. Fauci has repeatedly talked about it.

Honestly.. not sure where you’re getting our information. But it’s entirely false. It’s pure fiction.

From the CDC‘S Twitter account:



Yes — IN PUBLIC, you have to wear a mask. Because the full public isn’t vaccinated. And when the full public is vaccinated, that changes.

So the CDC and Fauci have been very clear — When you get vaccinated, you get huge benefits — you can socialize in private with friends and family without social distancing and masks.
When enough people get vaccinated, then everyone goes back to normal.


DisneyCane said:
The part I have tried to correct them on is the misinformation about the mRNA vaccines. The "keep it going" stuff isn't a lie. It is a perception and I don't disagree with it. There are people on this thread who are constantly saying that these measures must remain in place until cases reach some level that is "low enough."

I support a voluntary "vaccine pass" that allows you to be exempt from following any COVID-related rule. I don't think you should be restricted if you don't volunteer. For example, while traveling if I have a vaccine pass, I don't have to wear a mask in the airport or on the plane but if I don't want to have a voluntary pass then I have to follow the rule. However, I'd be adamantly against requiring a vaccine passport to travel at all.
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havoc315

Well-Known Member
DisneyCane said:
The powers that be don't say that "you" can personally do anything after being vaccinated. They say quite the opposite. The Fauci/CDC messaging has been when in public you still have to wear a mask, socially distance, etc., etc.

The part I have tried to correct them on is the misinformation about the mRNA vaccines. The "keep it going" stuff isn't a lie. It is a perception and I don't disagree with it. There are people on this thread who are constantly saying that these measures must remain in place until cases reach some level that is "low enough."

I support a voluntary "vaccine pass" that allows you to be exempt from following any COVID-related rule. I don't think you should be restricted if you don't volunteer. For example, while traveling if I have a vaccine pass, I don't have to wear a mask in the airport or on the plane but if I don't want to have a voluntary pass then I have to follow the rule. However, I'd be adamantly against requiring a vaccine passport to travel at all.
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As to this last part... how the heck would you enforce it???? A flight attendant keeps walking around and checking the vaccine passports any time anyone removes their mask?!?!

At a movie theater, an usher constantly walks around to make sure the non-passport people keep their masks on?

You’re talking about an unenforceable differentiation.
 
Jenny72

Jenny72

Well-Known Member
I admit I was pretty nervous about getting a vaccine. It's not that I don't trust the experts, but I am exhausted after a year of this and have very little in the way of mental reserves. The place where I got it had a tiny, packed waiting room with people wearing masks under their noses, getting tested for Covid (not a great setup, obviously). I was worried about side effects, which I seem to get from a lot of medication, and am just generally too worn out to feel confident about anything after a chaotic and confusing year.

But I overrode all that and got my second shot yesterday. I don't even seem to have any side effects except a sore arm. None of this is all that informative except that I'm proud of myself for making myself do it, and if I can I will try to help anyone who doesn't want to get the vaccine not because of denialism/etc. but just because of needle phobia, generalized anxiety, or similar. I'm sympathetic and can help get it done.
 
BlindChow

BlindChow

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
It’s possible that in private setting that are more easily enforceable a no mask needed if you are vaccinated plan will work. Not right now while community spread is still too high and not enough are vaccinated but in a few months it should be possible. I posted this a while back, but still relevant. I work in an office environment where anyone who goes in to the office needs to wear a mask. Once we have reached a point where anyone who wants a vaccine has gotten one and community spread has come down but not enough to get rid of masks altogether, the company could make the policy that everyone still needs to wear a mask to work but if you are vaccinated you can get an exemption. That exemption requires you to share proof of vaccination with the company. If you chose to not get vaccinated or chose to not share your vaccine status that’s your right but you get no exemption from mask wearing. This could apply to places of work or schools, really anywhere with a structured system and rules that are enforced.

If that was the policy I would expect close to 90% of employees would get the vaccine. My company did a recent employee poll and around 70% said they already had or were going to get the vaccine another 15% said they would not get it no matter what and 15% said they would get it if it was required by work. I’m not in favor of flat out requiring it yet due to EUA, but a mask exemption could be a way to strongly encourage vaccination without requiring it. In public settings like a grocery store or a theme park it’s logistically challenging to establish someone’s vaccine status but much easier in a private setting.
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I absolutely agree!

I think with an enforced system of vaccine verification, "Get a vaccine and lose the mask" would be an effective way to reduce hesitancy. Hopefully that is the way businesses go if hesitancy does end up becoming problematic.
 
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