Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about the vaccine not get it? We have had millions at this point fully vaccinated, even around the world. The data proves they work. At some point it's worth trusting the science, trusting the doctors, and trusting the people that are a lot smarter than the average human regarding this topic so we can get back to normal.

I think this is a pretty valid question. As was pointed out by a few other people nothing in life is without risk. Let’s lay out the risks related to getting infected with Covid vs the risk of getting the Covid vaccine.

Short term risk:

• Covid infection: Death, hospitalization, loss of hours worked due to quarantine (up to 10-14 days or longer), potential that you infect others (not a personal health risk but you might feel guilty), feeling generally bad for several days to several weeks with potential flu like symptoms, loss of taste and smell, other unpleasant symptoms
• Covid vaccine: Allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) that in rare cases could result in hospitalization (mostly people with pre-existing conditions that make them susceptible to allergic reactions), flu like symptoms for a day or so that could be severe enough to miss a day at work, soar arm

Long term risk:

• Covid infection: “long hauler“ symptoms (see the attached article for full description), possible organ damage to the brain, heart and lungs, blood clots, stroke, seizures, Guillain-Barr syndrome, issues with fatigue and mood. The really scary part is that these long term issues are found even in people who are young and healthy and people who have very mild cases of Covid. We are also just at the tip of the iceberg in studying the why of a lot of these things. Who knows what else might be discovered.
• Covid vaccine: so far no meaningful number of cases of Guillain-Barr syndrome from vaccination and allergic reactions and side effects are not long term. I have not found any evidence of potential long term issues with the vaccine outside of the generic “it was rushed” so it’s risky. I’m not saying there can’t be other long term impacts but I haven’t even seen a serious doctor or scientist express what they could be. Based on the fact that the vaccine is not in your system long term it seems highly unlikely that a symptom would lay dormant for years and then emerge. That’s just not how it works in the history of vaccines.

So to recap the actual short and long term risks of getting Covid are substantially higher than getting the vaccine. Nobody using any level of logic to analyze the data can draw any other conclusion. The only factor in favor of not getting the vaccine is that you are not guaranteed to get Covid if you don’t get the vaccine. So someone who choses to not get the vaccine can’t logically conclude that the vaccine is more risky than actually getting Covid they are just rolling the dice that their number isn’t going to get called. Life is full of choices and people are certainly free to roll those dice.

Long COVID questions and answers

COVID-19 can have lasting symptoms that affect many parts of the body. Learn more about the symptoms and effects of long COVID.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[disneygeek90]

I think this is a pretty valid question. As was pointed out by a few other people nothing in life is without risk. Let’s lay out the risks related to getting infected with Covid vs the risk of getting the Covid vaccine.

Short term risk:

• Covid infection: Death, hospitalization, loss of hours worked due to quarantine (up to 10-14 days or longer), potential that you infect others (not a personal health risk but you might feel guilty), feeling generally bad for several days to several weeks with potential flu like symptoms, loss of taste and smell, other unpleasant symptoms
• Covid vaccine: Allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) that in rare cases could result in hospitalization (mostly people with pre-existing conditions that make them susceptible to allergic reactions), flu like symptoms for a day or so that could be severe enough to miss a day at work, soar arm

Long term risk:

• Covid infection: “long hauler“ symptoms (see the attached article for full description), possible organ damage to the brain, heart and lungs, blood clots, stroke, seizures, Guillain-Barr syndrome, issues with fatigue and mood. The really scary part is that these long term issues are found even in people who are young and healthy and people who have very mild cases of Covid. We are also just at the tip of the iceberg in studying the why of a lot of these things. Who knows what else might be discovered.
• Covid vaccine: so far no meaningful number of cases of Guillain-Barr syndrome from vaccination and allergic reactions and side effects are not long term. I have not found any evidence of potential long term issues with the vaccine outside of the generic “it was rushed” so it’s risky. I’m not saying there can’t be other long term impacts but I haven’t even seen a serious doctor or scientist express what they could be. Based on the fact that the vaccine is not in your system long term it seems highly unlikely that a symptom would lay dormant for years and then emerge. That’s just not how it works in the history of vaccines.

So to recap the actual short and long term risks of getting Covid are substantially higher than getting the vaccine. Nobody using any level of logic to analyze the data can draw any other conclusion. The only factor in favor of not getting the vaccine is that you are not guaranteed to get Covid if you don’t get the vaccine. So someone who choses to not get the vaccine can’t logically conclude that the vaccine is more risky than actually getting Covid they are just rolling the dice that their number isn’t going to get called. Life is full of choices and people are certainly free to roll those dice.

Long COVID questions and answers

COVID-19 can have lasting symptoms that affect many parts of the body. Learn more about the symptoms and effects of long COVID.

www.mayoclinic.org

To add, it also seems like if you DO end up still catching covid, your serious symptoms are severely diminished and overall outlook (not going in a hospital) looks much better. I’m not sure if those with vaccine + covid could experience the same potential long term side effects but I haven’t looked into that personally.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I think this is a pretty valid question. As was pointed out by a few other people nothing in life is without risk. Let’s lay out the risks related to getting infected with Covid vs the risk of getting the Covid vaccine.

Short term risk:

• Covid infection: Death, hospitalization, loss of hours worked due to quarantine (up to 10-14 days or longer), potential that you infect others (not a personal health risk but you might feel guilty), feeling generally bad for several days to several weeks with potential flu like symptoms, loss of taste and smell, other unpleasant symptoms
• Covid vaccine: Allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) that in rare cases could result in hospitalization (mostly people with pre-existing conditions that make them susceptible to allergic reactions), flu like symptoms for a day or so that could be severe enough to miss a day at work, soar arm

Long term risk:

• Covid infection: “long hauler“ symptoms (see the attached article for full description), possible organ damage to the brain, heart and lungs, blood clots, stroke, seizures, Guillain-Barr syndrome, issues with fatigue and mood. The really scary part is that these long term issues are found even in people who are young and healthy and people who have very mild cases of Covid. We are also just at the tip of the iceberg in studying the why of a lot of these things. Who knows what else might be discovered.
• Covid vaccine: so far no meaningful number of cases of Guillain-Barr syndrome from vaccination and allergic reactions and side effects are not long term. I have not found any evidence of potential long term issues with the vaccine outside of the generic “it was rushed” so it’s risky. I’m not saying there can’t be other long term impacts but I haven’t even seen a serious doctor or scientist express what they could be. Based on the fact that the vaccine is not in your system long term it seems highly unlikely that a symptom would lay dormant for years and then emerge. That’s just not how it works in the history of vaccines.

So to recap the actual short and long term risks of getting Covid are substantially higher than getting the vaccine. Nobody using any level of logic to analyze the data can draw any other conclusion. The only factor in favor of not getting the vaccine is that you are not guaranteed to get Covid if you don’t get the vaccine. So someone who choses to not get the vaccine can’t logically conclude that the vaccine is more risky than actually getting Covid they are just rolling the dice that their number isn’t going to get called. Life is full of choices and people are certainly free to roll those dice.

Long COVID questions and answers

COVID-19 can have lasting symptoms that affect many parts of the body. Learn more about the symptoms and effects of long COVID.

www.mayoclinic.org

PS- Not a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome reported following a COVID vaccine as of yet (or at least, last time I xhecked the adverse reaction registry a week ago). Given how many millions have already received a vaccine, we're already 2-3 orders of magnitude beyond the baseline frequency of the disease in the general population if a case were to occur.

 

[havoc315]

Simply put, I have no need to fear getting covid due to my age and level of health. Therefore, it's my choice to not put something into my body that I don't want to. Everyone should have that choice. The same way people have the choice to drive fast, drink alcohol, etc. (Yes I know the response "and they have the choice to deny you entry, etc. etc.")

Studies have also shown harm done by vaccines, sometimes those studies are suppressed, sometimes not. Anti-vaxxers take things to the extreme, but pro-vaxxers do to.

Let me ask you something, without malice. Why should someone who has next to no reason to worry about covid get a vaccine? Life has risks and it's not my responsibility to keep other people safe. And nobody can say that is selfish if you've ever gone over the speed limit, drank maybe a little too much then drove home, and so on.

Do the 70,000 people who die every year from the flu not matter? If they do, then masks and distancing should come back every flu season, right? The people who are all for vaccines and masks for another few months don't mention this from what I've seen.

We are all interconnected. You’re right, it’s your choice, nobody can force you. Just like nobody can force you to wear a seatbelt — as long as you don’t get into a car.

Your choice not to get a vaccine means you are making the choice to put others in danger.

So it’s perfectly fine for the government to say- “if you don’t want to take a vaccine, fine. But you’re not allowed on planes, you’re not allowed in restaurants, you’re not allowed in public gatherings.”

Yes, you have the right to put yourself at risk perhaps. But you don’t have a right to put others at risk.

 

[GoofGoof]

PS- Not a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome reported following a COVID vaccine as of yet (or at least, last time I xhecked the adverse reaction registry a week ago). Given how many millions have already received a vaccine, we're already 2-3 orders of magnitude beyond the baseline frequency of the disease in the general population if a case were to occur.

I was hedging my bets because I wasn’t 100% sure. So you are actually at higher risk for Guillan-Barre without the vaccine since it is a rare side effect of a natural Covid infection.

 

[JoeCamel]

PS- Not a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome reported following a COVID vaccine as of yet (or at least, last time I xhecked the adverse reaction registry a week ago). Given how many millions have already received a vaccine, we're already 2-3 orders of magnitude beyond the baseline frequency of the disease in the general population if a case were to occur.

I was hedging my bets because I wasn’t 100% sure. So you are actually at higher risk for Guillan-Barre without the vaccine since it is a rare side effect of a natural Covid infection.

Ohhh, so that conclusively proves the vaccine lowers the incidence of Gullian-Barre? Nothing but positives

 

[lazyboy97o]

PS- Not a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome reported following a COVID vaccine as of yet (or at least, last time I xhecked the adverse reaction registry a week ago). Given how many millions have already received a vaccine, we're already 2-3 orders of magnitude beyond the baseline frequency of the disease in the general population if a case were to occur.

But you need to keep an open mind and consider the other side... I won’t say what it is or where you can read it, but you have to consider it.

 

[hopemax]

PS- Not a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome reported following a COVID vaccine as of yet (or at least, last time I xhecked the adverse reaction registry a week ago). Given how many millions have already received a vaccine, we're already 2-3 orders of magnitude beyond the baseline frequency of the disease in the general population if a case were to occur.

That's what I don't get in this display of intellectual reasoning. There are a number of documented cases worldwide of people under 40, experiencing long COVID symptoms that have left some people unable to work, heart & lung damage, psychotic effects, etc. But this frequency of something that has *actually happened* is dismissed as basically "a zero chance of that happening to me." But then fears the potential of something someone could theoretically imagine might happen, but hasn't happened after millions of doses administered?

 

[Dan Deesnee]

That's what I don't get in this display of intellectual reasoning. There are a number of documented cases worldwide of people under 40, experiencing long COVID symptoms that have left some people unable to work, heart & lung damage, psychotic effects, etc. But this frequency of something that has *actually happened* is dismissed as basically "a zero chance of that happening to me." But then fears the potential of something someone could theoretically imagine might happen, but hasn't happened after millions of doses administered?

My brother has atreo fribulation (not sure on spelling) which doesn't cause him much trouble in general, lives a very normal life. He got the vaccine, first dose was fine, second dose nearly sent him to the ER. First issues were he woke up and "felt like death, could barely move for 4 hours". Next day his heart issue flared up worse than he says it's ever been and finally calmed down shortly before he was going to have his wife take him to the hospital.

He had covid in the summer and barely noticed it.

Anecdotal, I know. He did not report these adverse reactions. So I wouldn't consider the data to be the end-all-be-all.

But judging on how some people act in this thread I'm sure my brother having these potentially life threatening reactions will be laughed at, or I'll be called a liar.

 

[Heppenheimer]

That's what I don't get in this display of intellectual reasoning. There are a number of documented cases worldwide of people under 40, experiencing long COVID symptoms that have left some people unable to work, heart & lung damage, psychotic effects, etc. But this frequency of something that has *actually happened* is dismissed as basically "a zero chance of that happening to me." But then fears the potential of something someone could theoretically imagine might happen, but hasn't happened after millions of doses administered?

And PASC (aka Long Covid) is not exactly a rare consequence of the disease.

 

[danlb_2000]

That's what I don't get in this display of intellectual reasoning. There are a number of documented cases worldwide of people under 40, experiencing long COVID symptoms that have left some people unable to work, heart & lung damage, psychotic effects, etc. But this frequency of something that has *actually happened* is dismissed as basically "a zero chance of that happening to me." But then fears the potential of something someone could theoretically imagine might happen, but hasn't happened after millions of doses administered?

From the beginning there has been a narrow focus on live vs die, we still don't have a good handle on everything that happens in between. I recently posted about stories that doctors were telling of children who had very mild symptoms but then struggled when they tried to go back to the sports that used to participate in.

 

[gerarar]

Didn’t know where else to post this, but a DVC CM made a cool skit/TikTok about their return to work call at WDW. Randomly appeared on my feed, but it honestly made me smile, especially with the HEA music used in the background lol.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Didn’t know where else to post this, but a DVC CM made a cool skit/TikTok about their return to work call at WDW. Randomly appeared on my feed, but it honestly made me smile, especially with the HEA music used in the background lol.

That's pretty cool. The ending is especially well done.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

And PASC (aka Long Covid) is not exactly a rare consequence of the disease.

It isn’t rare at all. As of a month ago the estimates were one third or more had long lasting problems and that was old and young, healthy and not so healthy. It also just dealt with fatigue, brain fog and other things that persisted. It really didn’t get into the problems with the heart and other organs that they are not sure of to this day whether it will be a lifetime thing or possibly get better in a year or two. Here’s a good article on what they call the long haulers.

The Problem of 'Long Haul' COVID

More and more patients are dealing with major symptoms that linger for months

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[GoofGoof]

Interesting study shows that t -cells from people infected with the original variants of Covid fully recognize the 3 major new variants (UK, S Africa and Brazil). So even though the antibodies may be less effective vs newer variants the T cells do not appear to be any less effective. Very good news for reaching herd immunity.

T cells induced by COVID-19 infection respond to new virus variants -U.S. study

A critical component of the immune system known as T cells that respond to fight infection from the original version of the novel coronavirus appear to also protect against three of the most concerning new virus variants, according to a U.S. laboratory study released on Tuesday. Several recent...

www.yahoo.com

 

[GoofGoof]

 

[SamusAranX]

70,000 deaths would be a really bad year for the flu. In fact, the highest estimate over the past decade is 61,000 and most years don't touch that. And even if 70,000/year was the average it is still nowhere close to 540,000 and counting, so your argument just proves that this virus is much more dangerous than the flu no matter how you spin it.

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

At risk of speaking for him I don’t think his point was the flu is worse then covid. It’s not.

his point was that the same people pointing in shrieking at many in here that choosing to drop some mitigation’s once vaccinated and or for other reasons, are the same people who will NOT be masking, socially isolating, and following other precautions during a normal flu season. Even though this past fall proved it WILL reduce flu cases, WILL reduce flu hospitalizations and WILL reduce flu deaths.

 

[Horizons '83]

I and millions of others are not getting the vaccine. Ever. Deal with it, Karens.

Solid 7th post after 7 years. Who is Karen and why do you have a thing for them?

 

[fgmnt]

I and millions of others are not getting the vaccine. Ever. Deal with it, Karens.

Really weird post.

 

[lazyboy97o]

his point was that the same people pointing in shrieking at many in here that choosing to drop some mitigation’s once vaccinated and or for other reasons, are the same people who will NOT be masking, socially isolating, and following other precautions during a normal flu season. Even though this past fall proved it WILL reduce flu cases, WILL reduce flu hospitalizations and WILL reduce flu deaths.

How do we know people’s view on how to handle the flu? I’ve done mask, distancing and isolating when I get the flu for years. Every doctor’s office or hospital I’ve been in during the last 10 years has required masks for those with cold and flu symptoms and many have a separate waiting area for those patients. Culturally we absolutely should keep masks for those exhibiting respiratory symptoms and send people home if they have flu symptoms, and make it easier for them to go home when sick.