Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

So you are saying just ban all kids? That works for a bar and probably a concert venue and you could do adult only cruises. That can’t work for WDW, they would rather keep Covid safety protocols like masks and distancing and continue to allow kids in too.

The whole point of a vaccine passport is that if community spread is still too high to remove Covid protocols then as a business you can require proof of vaccination instead and then you don’t need the covid safety protocols because everyone is vaccinated or in the case of certain businesses there are no existing safety protocols to allow you to be open and the hope is that adding this will get you open (cruises, concerts, baseball in NY). If you just exempt kids that defeats the purpose. If a third to half the people at your business (like WDW would be) don’t have the vaccine because they are kids and aren’t eligible then you are removing safety protocols without guaranteeing that a large number of visitors are actually vaccinated.

For a business like the Yankees and Mets the government is saying they can‘t allow fans in the stands without a negative test or proof of vaccine so their 2 options are no fans or follow the vaccine/test rule. The same would go for a concert venue that’s shut down right now and also maybe cruise lines too that aren’t operating right now. For WDW they have a third option which is continue to operate with existing safety protocols and that option doesn’t alienate a large portion of a key demographic.

Existing safety protocols may not go so far as to "alienate" a large portion of a key demographic, but they may very well discourage them from visiting. No matter how many times people, based on their own experience, decide that wearing a mask is no big deal for others, a great many people disagree.

Right now, WDW is admitting children under the age of 2 without requiring them to wear a mask. My understanding is that the decision is based on the fact that it is dangerous for them to do so - not on the fact that they are incapable of contracting or spreading the virus. As more people are vaccinated and numbers start to come down, isn't it possible that businesses (not necessarily Disney) will require adults to be vaccinated, but not children? I suspect that's how vaccine passports will work. I haven't been following that closely, but it does not seem that children are driving the spread of the virus (again, for purposes of controlling the pandemic, not ensuring no one gets sick).

 

[Monkee Girl]

@Monkee Girl why don’t you actually use your words?

Because I have been reading and trying to catch up on the thread before voicing any opinions. There is also nothing to say that hasn't already been said to death and nothing I say will change any opinions. But I do 'like' or 'dislike' as I go. However, if it is against policy to like or disliking something; I will stop. And if someone feels the need to pick me out in particular for expressing my feelings by means of an emoji then I can only imagine what will be said if I actually type something.

 

[_caleb]

So you are saying just ban all kids? That works for a bar and probably a concert venue and you could do adult only cruises. That can’t work for WDW, they would rather keep Covid safety protocols like masks and distancing and continue to allow kids in too.

The whole point of a vaccine passport is that if community spread is still too high to remove Covid protocols then as a business you can require proof of vaccination instead and then you don’t need the covid safety protocols because everyone is vaccinated or in the case of certain businesses there are no existing safety protocols to allow you to be open and the hope is that adding this will get you open (cruises, concerts, baseball in NY). If you just exempt kids that defeats the purpose. If a third to half the people at your business (like WDW would be) don’t have the vaccine because they are kids and aren’t eligible then you are removing safety protocols without guaranteeing that a large number of visitors are actually vaccinated.

For a business like the Yankees and Mets the government is saying they can‘t allow fans in the stands without a negative test or proof of vaccine so their 2 options are no fans or follow the vaccine/test rule. The same would go for a concert venue that’s shut down right now and also maybe cruise lines too that aren’t operating right now. For WDW they have a third option which is continue to operate with existing safety protocols and that option doesn’t alienate a large portion of a key demographic.

Thanks for explaining. I wasn’t saying “ban all kids,” I was trying to understand your concerns. Now I see what you were talking about.

I know the age of vaccinations continues to lower (16+ next week around here), so I figured the passport idea was being set in motion in anticipation of when we can “flip” from assuming everyone is unvaccinated (and a possible carrier) to assuming everyone at WDW has been vaccinated and we can ”weed out” the few who haven’t (or who, for whatever reason, cannot). This would not be implemented until most children can get vaccinated, I would think.

I’ve seen @mmascari‘s posts about how a mixed approach isn’t effective, but we will eventually get to the “flip.” If we wait until then to begin some sort of passport system, it seems like it will be too late to bother.

 

[GoofGoof]

Getting vaccinated is for the good of society and I'm doing that. The vaccination replaces the need to do the other stuff as it is far more effective than the other mitigation measures. As I've said, to this point I've complied with rules that I disagree with "for the good of society."

You may be vaccinated but many others aren’t and they will see you not following rules and want to do the same so while you are protecting others by being vaccinated, openly defying mask mandates is still being part of the problem. Plus you are creating unnecessary conflict. If you choose to do that just don’t be one of these people in the viral videos. If someone asks you to wear a mask at a private business either put it on or just leave. Don’t make some poor workers have to confront you. Do what you want in private. Even the CDC says you don’t need to avoid people and mask in your home if you are vaccinated.

 

[GoofGoof]

Thanks for explaining. I wasn’t saying “ban all kids,” I was trying to understand your concerns. Now I see what you were talking about.

I know the age of vaccinations continues to lower (16+ next week around here), so I figured the passport idea was being set in motion in anticipation of when we can “flip” from assuming everyone is unvaccinated (and a possible carrier) to assuming everyone at WDW has been vaccinated and we can ”weed out” the few who haven’t (or who, for whatever reason, cannot). This would not be implemented until most children can get vaccinated, I would think.

I’ve seen @mmascari‘s posts about how a mixed approach isn’t effective, but we will eventually get to the “flip.” If we wait until then to begin some sort of passport system, it seems like it will be too late to bother.

I agree with this. The only problem is kids may not be approved for vaccination until late 2021. I hope it’s sooner. So yes, if community spread is still bad in the Fall/Winter it’s much more likely more businesses will look into vaccine passports. For now I think plan A is still hoping that community spread drops enough to remove the safety protocols even without kids vaccinated. Then you don’t need vaccine passports because everything is open without restrictions.

 

[_caleb]

Airlines in the US already said requiring vaccine passports was a hard no for them for Domestic flights. It would ruin their business. They are not opposed to having a vaccine passport system but they do not want the government to mandate proof of vaccination to fly domestically. They are on board for International flights especially to higher risk areas.

They think vaccination passports for domestic flights would ruin their business? They’ve seen the alternative, haven’t they? There’s nothing magical about international boarders that lowers the risk of spread.

(Not disagreeing with you, @GoofGoof, just pushing back on what the airlines have said about the impact of requiring vaccine passports to their business.)

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree with this. The only problem is kids may not be approved for vaccination until late 2021. I hope it’s sooner. So yes, if community spread is still bad in the Fall/Winter it’s much more likely more businesses will look into vaccine passports. For now I think plan A is still hoping that community spread drops enough to remove the safety protocols even without kids vaccinated. Then you don’t need vaccine passports because everything is open without restrictions.

I personally think it's going to happen regardless of community spread. Many other countries are behind in vaccinations and when you add in variants, I think they will implement it for safety reasons.

 

[DisneyCane]

You may be vaccinated but many others aren’t and they will see you not following rules and want to do the same so while you are protecting others by being vaccinated, openly defying mask mandates is still being part of the problem. Plus you are creating unnecessary conflict. If you choose to do that just don’t be one of these people in the viral videos. If someone asks you to wear a mask at a private business either put it on or just leave. Don’t make some poor workers have to confront you. Do what you want in private. Even the CDC says you don’t need to avoid people and mask in your home if you are vaccinated.

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

 

[Polkadotdress]

My attitude isn't selfish. I'll be fully vaccinated and the community will be at far lower risk from me than they were before I was vaccinated and wearing a face covering. I've complied with things I've disagreed with for a year now.

It's mostly the county mandates that I will be opting out of.

I've done my part and since I have my reward is not participating in annoying measures once I've reached maximum protection.

Perhaps we should call you Veruca Salt...since "The rules apply to everybody but meeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

 

[_caleb]

once I've reached maximum protection from being vaccinated there is no scientific basis to continue to do so.

”Science” isn’t limited to virology or even biology. There’s ample scientific basis to continue wearing a mask, distancing, and washing hands.

 

[uncle jimmy]

I never said Florida solved anything. I've always said there is no solution except a complete and total lockdown for at least two months which would be unreasonable and likely unconstitutional.

You are free to your opinion about me. If somebody is afraid I will react violently (which I won't) then they shouldn't confront me. There were still a ton of restrictions even with mask wearing so wearing one didn't help me do anything except go to WDW to take advantage of historically low wait times in the first few weeks after reopening. I'll wear a biohazard suit if I can continuously re-ride FoP with no wait, shortcutting back through the FP line at exit like I was able to when they first reopened.

If a random stranger follows my lead then so be it. I'm not going to be out running a campaign to follow what I'm doing.

Nope, that's not my motivation at all. I don't really care what other people do. It is annoying to wear one and once I've reached maximum protection from being vaccinated there is no scientific basis to continue to do so. I'd have absolutely no problem telling the world if I've been going maskless. Believe what you want but I've complied to this point. I won't put it on until I am crossing the threshold of the door into a store and I rip it off the second I cross the threshold on the way out but I comply with the letter of the rules.

Getting vaccinated is for the good of society and I'm doing that. The vaccination replaces the need to do the other stuff as it is far more effective than the other mitigation measures. As I've said, to this point I've complied with rules that I disagree with "for the good of society."

How about the 16 and younger kids, who for right now can't get vaccinated? Even being vaccinated, with not wearing a mask in public (around other people), you can be a carrier and spreader of the virus. Think about all the kids who have to go to school and can sit there all day wearing a mask on their face... And you can't wear one for the minutes inside a grocery store. Think about that.

My 16 yr old nephew last week started to not feel well, started to get a fever and parents took him and brother to get tested. Rapid test said negative, longer test came back positive. Having had covid myself, my heart breaks for him with what he is going thru... The fear of if things will get worst for him.

 

[_caleb]

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

Is there like a secret Facebook group that helps you find business that won’t enforce public health recommendations? A flag those business fly that lets you know they rely on customers to call out non-compliance?

Because I’d find that information very helpful in knowing what establishments to avoid.

 

[HarperRose]

I sincerely hope a vaccine passport becomes mandatory to fly domestically or to attend large-scale events (including WDW). Cruise lines have already said it's mandatory for adults and I expect international airlines to make the same requirement.

 

[GoofGoof]

Existing safety protocols may not go so far as to "alienate" a large portion of a key demographic, but they may very well discourage them from visiting. No matter how many times people, based on their own experience, decide that wearing a mask is no big deal for others, a great many people disagree.

Right now, WDW is admitting children under the age of 2 without requiring them to wear a mask. My understanding is that the decision is based on the fact that it is dangerous for them to do so - not on the fact that they are incapable of contracting or spreading the virus. As more people are vaccinated and numbers start to come down, isn't it possible that businesses (not necessarily Disney) will require adults to be vaccinated, but not children? I suspect that's how vaccine passports will work. I haven't been following that closely, but it does not seem that children are driving the spread of the virus (again, for purposes of controlling the pandemic, not ensuring no one gets sick).

Yes, the under 2 exception is there for the safety of the baby so they don’t suffocate on the mask. That being said there actually is some pretty compelling evidence that very young children are much less likely to get or spread Covid. It has something to do with kids not fully developing the receptors the virus attaches to. I saw an interview with one of the head doctors at CHOP who actually said kids under 5 May never be approved for a Covid vaccine because of this. It’s not 100% obviously since kids under 5 have been infected, but there is some science behind them being less of an issue.

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www.chop.edu

So far in very limited practice, like Baseball in NY, there is no kid exception. They are offering the quick test instead of proof of vaccination since not all adults or any kids are even eligible.

 

[Chi84]

Now that vaccine passports are being developed, they're starting to sound pretty good. My husband and I are both fully vaccinated, but we're still doing takeout and delivery because we don't find it enjoyable to deal with masks in restaurants. If a restaurant were able to find some way to let in only vaccinated people and do away with the mitigation measures, we would be there in a heartbeat.

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

I could see Disney Cruise Line asking for vaccine passports but again, families with small children complicate things

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

FYI it’s people like you that are keeping me from spending money on the economy. If everyone was following the rules posted at businesses I would be much more comfortable giving money to those businesses!

 

[ABQ]

Airlines in the US already said requiring vaccine passports was a hard no for them for Domestic flights. It would ruin their business. They are not opposed to having a vaccine passport system but they do not want the government to mandate proof of vaccination to fly domestically. They are on board for International flights especially to higher risk areas.

If ever implemented, I would expect it to be done at the TSA level, not the individual airline level anyway. Pretty sure the airlines are making their point as a way to temper a Wall Street reaction, nothing more.

 

[GoofGoof]

If ever implemented, I would expect it to be done at the TSA level, not the individual airline level anyway. Pretty sure the airlines are making their point as a way to temper a Wall Street reaction, nothing more.

That’s what the airlines oppose. They are not opposed to the creation of vaccine passports today (although they do prefer a federal one as opposed to 50 state programs) and they are not completely opposed to using them in the future should the need come. What they are opposed to is a government imposed requirement that they can’t control that requires a vaccination to fly domestically. They want to leave the option open and hope that the community spread is low enough to not need them.

 

[GoofGoof]

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

That’s fine. If a business doesn’t require it then there’s no issue. I personally think the businesses should still require it for the sake of their customers and also their employees but that’s another argument all together. You not wearing a mask to a Walmart that doesn’t require it is not based on vaccination status though, they aren’t requiring a mask for anyone. I don’t know of any businesses yet that are saying if you are vaccinated you don’t need to wear a mask but if you are unvaccinated you still do.