News Disneyland Working on Future Master Plan- includes Theme Park Expansions, Retail/Entertainment Space, and More!

[TwilightZone]

Some thoughts
First of all as pointed out this is a brilliant move, it's the right time even if the circumstances that caused it aren't great. Whether you like it or not this is the biggest piece of Disneyland news since the 60th.

I've seen some people ask why do this and not redo areas like Tomorrowland or the rest of DCA first, but my thinking is while stuff like that would get praise in the inner disney circle, the reach will only be that. An expansion like this is big money making news that will reach EVERYONE whether you like it or not. I've talked to many people outside of the disney bubble about this expansion and all of them think it's cool, and a lot of them are especially excited about the zootopia land, even though it will probably be under scrutiny here due to it not fitting the california theme. It's a genius money play.

I do expect that if this goes through we will see some other changes eventually. I 100% expect DCA to be renamed or just become a part of disneyland (the connecting bridge raised an eyebrow for me). Perhaps after everything or most things are done here they will work on other areas. Or maybe they will work on the other areas at the same time. Who knows? Everything is blue sky after all.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Of what, DLH?

Yes.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I stayed in DLH in 2017, it was nice but nothing really special to me. GCH and the WDW resorts are more detailed and have a lot more to do.

I think you can make a case for the WDW Deluxe Hotels having more interesting common areas. They’re more specifically themed. But the rooms really aren’t that great.

Stayed in AKL in 2018. The balcony view was nice, but the room was incredibly cramped staying with 1 or 2 others (couldn’t imagine staying with 3 others). Bathroom was tiny, with a curtain shower/tub right next to the toilet (huge turn off for me). I’ve seen the inside of the Poly and Contemporary rooms, and they aren’t much different (aside from maybe the showers now).

DLH rooms were very spacious. Tons of room between the beds and the TV. Extra floor space for a chair to look out that great view of DL. A decent sized “hallway” leading to the door, with a large bathroom connected. Toilet and shower separated in different rooms.

And of course, the DLH lobbies are a dream for classic Disneyland fans.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Yes.

Yeah it’s beautiful. Very pretty green space and paths.

 

[chadwpalm]

So my third gate idea wasn't necessarily because I advocate it, but just to Blue Sky an alternative. I'd honestly be fine either way, but I'll just throw this out.

It's been argued multiple times that Galaxy's Edge and Avengers Campus should have been in a third gate. Who's to say that if they merely expanded DL to the west it wouldn't end up being a couple of IP lands like a Frozen Land or Toy Story Land? To me, that's far worse than a third gate. It's interesting that now that there's a possibility they can expand the parks you're all now okay with IP lands going into DL and DCA? Do you truly believe you're gonna get a Discovery Bay and not a Frozen Land?

This would be the first opportunity for a third park to actually be close to the other two parks without leaving the Disney bubble. At the end of the day, does it really matter if new lands and attractions are in a third park or in expanded existing parks? Most people here are probably multi-day vacationers or AP holders, so gates really shouldn't matter.

Anyway, I can understand why for some people DCA is not an all-day park, but at least 4 of my trips in the last 8 years I've been able to squeeze out a full day at DCA. Everyone's different I guess, but as a vacationer, I usually go when it is moderately more crowded and I like to do stuff like see the Frozen show, draw a character in the Animation Academy, spend a nice dining hour at Ariel's Grotto (now Lamplight Lounge), see World of Color which you have to wait at least an hour before anyway.

I don't argue DCA doesn't need some expansion, but with the Avengers E-ticket, maybe a dark ride near Pixar Pier, and if the eastern gateway were to come to fruition and they can expand north into the transportation hub, that's another 3 or 4 attractions right there.

But like I said, I'm good either way.

 

[chadwpalm]

I think there is a business case. First the old adage “build and they ll come.” Second it will spread out the crowds and higher guests satisfaction can = more money. They can bring back the AP system without worrying about the crowds effecting guest satisfaction. With that said, I don’t think a third gate in Anaheim is all that urgent for Disney as we can see by all their concept art they released.

As I somewhat argued above, previous attempts at a third park have failed and I for one wouldn't want to leave the Disney bubble to go to a third park down in the Toy Story parking area. Unless the city approved a transportation system like a Monorail extension or gondolas, you'd have to take shuttles on city streets and that would be a nightmare. While the WDW parks are far apart, you never leave Disney property.

There's plenty of time for Disney to decide what to do if the city approves zoning changes, but I also feel this is the only way to get a third park into the Disney bubble.

If we never get a third park and they do the expansion route, fine, but when Disney puts more IP lands and attractions in DL proper and you know they will, don't complain that it should have gone into a third park that will probably never exist.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If Disney was really bold they’d offer the City half a billion to abandon Disneyland Drive.

 

[choco choco]

If Disney was really bold they’d offer the City half a billion to abandon Disneyland Drive.

Ya I’ve suggested that before too. Or trade Anaheim’s desire for Gene Autry Way in return from giving them Disneyland Drive.

Don’t know how feasible it is. My guess is utilities run under Disneyland Dr, and if that’s the case it can get very complicated. I would also make sure to route West St to connect with Walnut and that way you preserve a north south thoroughfare.

 

[fctiger]

A third gate is a terrible idea. There, I’ve said it.

If I had the choice, the same investment can go to the existing two. I think the fan fallacy that more gates equals more investment never really tracks. WDW should be three and all the other resorts two. DCA needs more and DLR doesn’t deserve to be sidelined like the MK often is.

Also agree. Don't get me wrong, if there was real space and need to have it, it would be great. And what I mean by that if they have a park at least the size of DCA and could be walkable distance as the two parks now and that's AFTER both DL and DCA are considered full day parks. DL obviously is (several days in fact) but to many DCA still seems like a half day park. I personally think it's a full day park now as I have easily spent a day there no problem. But all that said, it still doesn't have the same pull of DL regardless and why a lot more needs to be done.

And the reality is I think a third park is really a daunting task for most of the resorts minus WDW. Most resorts have at least two parks, but not a third. In fact Tokyo Disney Resort announced they had planned to build a third park but those plans were scrapped and now they just adding new additions with Fantasy Springs to TDS along with a new hotel. But it's still going to cost them $2 billion, so it's literally the price of building another park, so this is a major investment. And it's the same idea this new plan has, using a previous parking lot to do it. Because they probably realized the logistics and money to make another one is just too daunting while also can't place it in the same vicinity of their parks now. So it's just easier to add to the parks they have now and expand capacity that way.

 

[TP2000]

Can I just say thank you for demonstrating that the blueprint and the concept art actually very tightly correspond to one another. A lot of people on these boards are saying that they do not.

It's my distinct pleasure.

Not that I think we'll actually get this exact park setup in 2030 or 2035, but it is pretty impressive how nice they made this artwork look and how accurately it corresponds to stuff that's already there. Someone spent some time on that, and it shows.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ya I’ve suggested that before too. Or trade Anaheim’s desire for Gene Autry Way in return from giving them Disneyland Drive.

Don’t know how feasible it is. My guess is utilities run under Disneyland Dr, and if that’s the case it can get very complicated. I would also make sure to route West St to connect with Walnut and that way you preserve a north south thoroughfare.

They shouldn’t give up the Strawberry Fields and should just develop them. Gene Awtry Way is a stupid road and the city hasn’t bothered to acquire the land when it has been fields and parking. No way they’d have the stomach to fight development.

Utility easements can definitely be troublesome but that’s part of what would make for a truly bold plan. Increasing the depression would also impact anything underground so you may not be that worse off and could have the added flexibility of not having a road.

 

[TP2000]

View attachment 542834
Hmmm, I’ve never heard the Disneyland Hotel referred to as “decrepit” before. Stayed there in 2014 and it was the nicest Disney Hotel I’ve ever slept in. It was recently renovated at the time, the pool area was beautiful, the lobbies were both well themed and classy, and the rooms comfortably accommodated more than one person (a rarity for a “Deluxe” Disney Hotel).

They did give the Disneyland Hotel a very nice (and sorely needed) freshening during that big project that wrapped up in 2012. But about a decade later it's starting to show its age again. They might be able to get one more furnishings/soft goods update out of the current design for the 2020's, but then it's going to be getting old again. It's a dated design. But the bones are good and have survived for 60 years surprisingly well.

We can thank Jack and Bonita Wrather and the Wrather Corporation for that more than anything TDA has ever done.

Also, as @TP2000 has mentioned, they cannot really touch PPH. That hotel seems pretty lame, but I don’t have any personal experience with it beyond the lobby.

It doesn't get better up in the rooms. I had family stay there in the mid 2010's, and it was lame all over. Although, the rooms are a nice size and the views facing eastward of the remade DCA were quite nice. But it's a tired and charmless cement block of a hotel from 1984, and all TDA has done over the last 25 years is put "Disney!" artwork on the walls and a big plastic statue of Surfer Goofy in the lobby. Once you notice those things, it's all downhill for the Paradise Pier Hotel. Family only stayed there because the Grand Californian was booked, but they wished they hadn't.

 

[TP2000]

They shouldn’t give up the Strawberry Fields and should just develop them. Gene Awtry Way is a stupid road and the city hasn’t bothered to acquire the land when it has been fields and parking. No way they’d have the stomach to fight development.

I've never understood Anaheim's fascination with extending Gene Autry Way all the way to the Convention Center. Especially now that the Platinum Triangle has built (or will build) thousands of housing units along each side of that roadway east of the freeway.

For whatever reason, Anaheim feels they need this giant 6 to 8 lane mega road to move people from the Convention Center to the Stadium on. But for what purpose, and what type of event that would need that, is unknown. It's an odd planning obsession they have over this road. And currently very, very few people ever use it in its current state from the Stadium to Haster.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They shouldn’t give up the Strawberry Fields and should just develop them. Gene Awtry Way is a stupid road and the city hasn’t bothered to acquire the land when it has been fields and parking. No way they’d have the stomach to fight development.

Utility easements can definitely be troublesome but that’s part of what would make for a truly bold plan. Increasing the depression would also impact anything underground so you may not be that worse off and could have the added flexibility of not having a road.

Or... completely build over it and make it a tunnel.

They already got part of it covered with the DTD overpass. And they're adding two more overpasses.

Overpass it all!

 

[Disneyland68]

Aloha,

Does anyone see the new DVC Tower being cancelled and reprogrammed into the new proposal?

 

[TP2000]

View attachment 542937

I love that! But I doubt there's many people here who even were alive when that was a thing.

 

[fctiger]

I can't believe I'm about to do this after I made so much fun of the breathless YouTubers in their home command centers, but this is the second night I had a nightcap with that coffee-bean infused bourbon and I'm not sleepy...

If you look at the artwork for the DCA Expansion pad, you notice the mountain structure with a roller coaster looping through it. That's what catches your eye first, and it goes into adjacent ride warehouses and who even knows what the theme is? Frozen? Mount Shasta Mysticism?

But around the base of that DCA Expansion mountain is a series of waterways, and it's easy to realize that's a flume system that goes through various ride buildings and show spaces. Like the Voyage to the Crystal Grotto boat ride at Shanghai Disneyland.

Now obviously there's no telling if any of that will ever happen, or what theme or IP or ride systems they may use for this expansion a decade from now. We may be back to a Paul Pressler era again by then, and all we get is a transplanted Golden Zephyr, a kiddy train past fiberglass IP statues, a Starbucks, and a DVC cart.

But it just shows that there are some decent WDI concepts out there that layer multiple rides, and multiple ride systems over and around the same space. Much like Walt and his Imagineers did at Disneyland in the 1950's and 60's. It's a good sign, even though this artwork likely has no connection to whatever may get built there a decade from now. But this would get DCA its overdue boat ride.

And just to reign in expectations a bit more, the Paradise Pier Hotel is still there next to the boat ride and mountain ride.

This is at least a positive they may be thinking of a water attraction then. I mean obviously I saw all the water ways so it was possible, but I never tried to even zoom into anything because all the videos I saw talking about it kept saying 'its not real, it's just a place setting of what might be there someday, don't you dare dream losers!" But even if this is nothing but a 'what if' that's great that are suggesting a detailed water ride.

I remember the old days of DCA 1.0 and posts in places like MC and LP would always suggest to alter the old Western River Expedition idea as a great addition to the park. That idea stayed around for years and would've been a great way to create a California old frontier (when they actually cared about the theme) but obviously it was just a pipe dream.

I was even hoping with TLM was announced, that was going to be a water ride IE like IASW or POTC. And I think the ride would've been immensely more popular if they went that way but hope dashed again!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Or... completely build over it and make it a tunnel.

They already got part of it covered with the DTD overpass. And they're adding two more overpasses.

Overpass it all!

Tunnels limit what you can do with the space. The current bridge is just that, a bridge where Downtown Disney just becomes some kiosks. That length means you’ll need to accommodate exhaust facilities. You may also have to accommodate emergency exits. Greater depth for more than walkways means longer runs to get down reducing the overall length. Any future work will also have to coordinate with the road below. Then there are the security issues of protecting the structure from attack or protecting emergency exits from being used as a point of entry. Just get rid of the headache.

 

[TP2000]

Aloha,

Does anyone see the new DVC Tower being cancelled and reprogrammed into the new proposal?

Aloha!

Good question. I'd thought about that too. But the Disneyland Hotel in its current format and footprint, including the future DVC tower, is all still shown and represented in these plans and drawings.

I've got some thoughts about the long-term hotel strategy shown here, but I'm going to have dessert n' drinkies tonight with some friends, one of whom should have some great insight on this proposal and its impact on the Resort District business strategy, so I'm holding off on my thoughts there until I can hear what he says and bounce my ideas off of him.

 

[fctiger]

The way I look at it is Galaxy's Bland is not part of Disneyland. Its just some area in the back. Disneyland proper is what Walt created with Toon Town thrown in because its so unoffensive and fits. any thing else they tack on is not really Disneyland to me because it can't be. it wont have the heart, charm. or warmth of what is in the park. Disneyland , real Disneyland fits inside the berm with an exception to Toon Town because it is sooo charming it fits in with the rest of the park. Star Wars Town minus real Star Wars characters does not fit or belong in Disneyland. Does not match it in tone, design, feel, etc. Its its own park. I will view this new extension as its own park broken into 2 halves, but it wont and will never be Disneyland no matter how they label it. You can't duplicate Disneyland.

This is literally what I mean when I say people treat DL too much like a museum. If just adding additions to the original park is still a no-no because it doesn't fit inside the original arbitrary berm then that park can never truly change or expand. If you don't like GE, that's fine of course and I know your opinion on it lol, but it just shows how tough it is to do any major additions to the park. And why DCA was at least a good idea on paper, but unfortunately the park they opened with sucked.