Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Disney Experience]

All side effects started ~12 hours after the shot for about 24 hours. A constant fever between 100-101, full body aches, pains, and chills. Also one of the worst headaches I've ever had! So fun all around

I think people can now understand why in late September when I got my second Pfizer shot in the phase 3 trial I was confident that I did not get a placebo. After first shot it was possible the soreness was placebo effect, but, at the time, the additional side effects I got after the second shot. No way was that the placebo effect.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

When it comes to vaccine passports it won't be completely up to us as a country. Its possible we may have a heavy influence on other countries, its possible that our hands may be forced by other countries. This is all still developing, but dont be shocked if it becomes reality.

 

[GoofGoof]

A private industry vaccine passport could definitely work. Places like WDW, sports/concert venues and even airlines could require you have a vaccine passport to enter. That would make it voluntary for people to sign up and be part of a "carrot" approach to getting vaccinated. I doubt you'd ever see walmart or a restaurant requiring a passport for entry but it could make sense for large gathering places to make people feel safe who wouldn't otherwise.

Sports/concert venues, cruise ships and places like WDW could work since they are luxuries and not essential. I don’t think domestic airlines do. There will ultimately be some small number of people who can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons. If you have a cancer patient who can’t be vaccinated due to treatments and also now can’t fly to MN to get treatment at the Mayo Clinic because of that it won’t go over very well, same goes if they had to fly home for a funeral or fly to and from another state for work or for college. Too many people use domestic airlines in somewhat essential ways. If you start making exceptions for medical reasons then every anti-vaxxer will emerge with a doctor’s note and that defeats the whole point.

For concerts and cruises and theme parks nobody has to do that stuff. The only wrinkle now is timing. Kids aren’t eligible and kids under 12 is a primary target audience for WDW. So if you limit the parks to only people who are vaccinated that’s a whole lot of people excluded and if you make an arbitrary exception for kids that also makes no sense from a scientific standpoint. There’s no proof that kids can’t be spreaders and we know they can get sick. For concerts I think they could do it and just exclude kids and for same for cruises, adult only ones anyway.

 

[Disney Experience]

Wow, well glad its over for you. It's so strange my sister (40 years old) and my best friend (36 years old) had 2 days of fever/chills/aches much like you but my parents (75 and 84) had no side affects at all.

The symptoms are immune system reactions. Our immune system is less responsive as we age, though it varies with the individual, but even on the trial there were less side effects in the older age groups. The good news is that the vaccines in the trials are effective in the older age groups, so no side effects does not mean the vaccine did not provide effective immunity.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Sports/concert venues, cruise ships and places like WDW could work since they are luxuries and not essential. I don’t think domestic airlines do.

The biggest incentive for domestic airlines doing it is simply from the business perspective. Example, delta is still blocking all of their seats, their flights are consistently sold out. People like the thought of that security safety blanket. The same thing will become of vaccines. "Safety" is a money maker.

*Also, now there seems to be very few purely domestic US airlines.

 

[DisneyCane]

Sports/concert venues, cruise ships and places like WDW could work since they are luxuries and not essential. I don’t think domestic airlines do. There will ultimately be some small number of people who can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons. If you have a cancer patient who can’t be vaccinated due to treatments and also now can’t fly to MN to get treatment at the Mayo Clinic because of that it won’t go over very well, same goes if they had to fly home for a funeral or fly to and from another state for work or for college. Too many people use domestic airlines in somewhat essential ways. If you start making exceptions for medical reasons then every anti-vaxxer will emerge with a doctor’s note and that defeats the whole point.

For concerts and cruises and theme parks nobody has to do that stuff. The only wrinkle now is timing. Kids aren’t eligible and kids under 12 is a primary target audience for WDW. So if you limit the parks to only people who are vaccinated that’s a whole lot of people excluded and if you make an arbitrary exception for kids that also makes no sense from a scientific standpoint. There’s no proof that kids can’t be spreaders and we know they can get sick. For concerts I think they could do it and just exclude kids and for same for cruises, adult only ones anyway.

Good point on people who can't be vaccinated. A provision could be added to the passport that allows a physician to verify that is the case to allow exceptions.

 

[DisneyCane]

The biggest incentive for domestic airlines doing it is simply from the business perspective. Example, delta is still blocking all of their seats, their flights are consistently sold out. People like the thought of that security safety blanket. The same thing will become of vaccines. "Safety" is a money maker.

*Also, now there seems to be very few purely domestic US airlines.

But they are sold out at 2/3 capacity. I've been on southwest and american flights that have had more than 2/3 of the seats filled. A couple were almost completely full.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Sports/concert venues, cruise ships and places like WDW could work since they are luxuries and not essential. I don’t think domestic airlines do. There will ultimately be some small number of people who can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons. If you have a cancer patient who can’t be vaccinated due to treatments and also now can’t fly to MN to get treatment at the Mayo Clinic because of that it won’t go over very well, same goes if they had to fly home for a funeral or fly to and from another state for work or for college. Too many people use domestic airlines in somewhat essential ways. If you start making exceptions for medical reasons then every anti-vaxxer will emerge with a doctor’s note and that defeats the whole point.

For concerts and cruises and theme parks nobody has to do that stuff. The only wrinkle now is timing. Kids aren’t eligible and kids under 12 is a primary target audience for WDW. So if you limit the parks to only people who are vaccinated that’s a whole lot of people excluded and if you make an arbitrary exception for kids that also makes no sense from a scientific standpoint. There’s no proof that kids can’t be spreaders and we know they can get sick. For concerts I think they could do it and just exclude kids and for same for cruises, adult only ones anyway.

Right now, the only absolute medical contra-indications for the mRNA vaccines are a previous anaphylaxis to the vaccine or one of the components.... and kids, but that will likely change once the trial results come out. Active treatment with chemotherapy is also not a contra-indication, although this might diminish the efficacy of the vaccine. So, we're talking about a really tiny percentage of the population that has true medical reason why they can't receive either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

I'll need to check specifically on Johnson & Johnson, but I'm pretty sure the same applies to their product.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Good point on people who can't be vaccinated. A provision could be added to the passport that allows a physician to verify that is the case to allow exceptions.

Vaccine Passports a not practical idea considering the realities of global travel and the broad spectrum of views from so many other countries. Now suggestions of "exceptions" make it useless for its intended purposes. A poor idea degenerating to bad by the minute.

 

[Disney Experience]

I suspect they will. They will watch the people vaccinated in January.... in April/May, if they appear to still be effectively vaccinates, the window will be lengthened.

I think they are more likely using the phase 3 ongoing subjects as the canary birds to determine vaccine duration. Though real world data if conflicting might override it.

Phase 3 are well past 3 months, but EUA are not past 3 months. So for estimating duration, Phase 3 is the leading indicator.

Bad news for those of us that are part of the leading indicator is that we will therefore always be outside the range since last vaccination unless we become part of a booster study ( without placebo group)

 

[oceanbreeze77]

IDK if anyone mentioned this but this year Hajj (the yearly pilgrimage for Muslims) WILL require the covid vaccine. Thats a pretty big deal. They have required other vaccines in the past, but its significant they added the Covid one.

 

[DisneyCane]

I am registered, had 5 - count em 5- calls for first shots to date. Nothing for the second. Once the clock ticks past my due by date I get to call a special number. They got a couple of days.

Did you ever get a call for your second shot appointment?

 

[Kevin_W]

Right now, the only absolute medical contra-indications for the mRNA vaccines are a previous anaphylaxis to the vaccine or one of the components.... and kids, but that will likely change once the trial results come out. Active treatment with chemotherapy is also not a contra-indication, although this might diminish the efficacy of the vaccine. So, we're talking about a really tiny percentage of the population that has true medical reason why they can't receive either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

It's not a full contra-indication, but my MIL is on regular Remicade treatments for ulcerative colitis. Since Remicade affects the workings of the immune system, her rheumatologist is at least advising specific timing of the vaccine to have the least potential interactions with the Remicade.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It's not a full contra-indication, but my MIL is on regular Remicade treatments for ulcerative colitis. Since Remicade affects the workings of the immune system, her rheumatologist is at least advising specific timing of the vaccine to have the least potential interactions with the Remicade.

This is not a safety concern, though, it relates to the reduced efficacy of the vaccine under such treatments. Giving the vaccine close to a monoclonal antibody infusion would effectively waste the dose.

 

[correcaminos]

Right now, the only absolute medical contra-indications for the mRNA vaccines are a previous anaphylaxis to the vaccine or one of the components.... and kids, but that will likely change once the trial results come out. Active treatment with chemotherapy is also not a contra-indication, although this might diminish the efficacy of the vaccine. So, we're talking about a really tiny percentage of the population that has true medical reason why they can't receive either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

I'll need to check specifically on Johnson & Johnson, but I'm pretty sure the same applies to their product.

I know they are also doing small trials with Johns Hopkins (pretty sure that's who) for efficacy with some taking certain anti rejection drugs and another group of CLL patients are testing too. Not a contradiction but just they aren't sure how well certain people are building antibodies. These are for the mRNA vaccines only so far. And not an excuse not to get but things to consider. That number of people in this situation likely is not large.

 

[Lilofan]

The biggest incentive for domestic airlines doing it is simply from the business perspective. Example, delta is still blocking all of their seats, their flights are consistently sold out. People like the thought of that security safety blanket. The same thing will become of vaccines. "Safety" is a money maker.

*Also, now there seems to be very few purely domestic US airlines.

Try flying United. A number of times I flew in the last several months the planes were near empty.

 

[Heppenheimer]

IDK if anyone mentioned this but this year Hajj (the yearly pilgrimage for Muslims) WILL require the covid vaccine. Thats a pretty big deal. They have required other vaccines in the past, but its significant they added the Covid one.

I seem to recall a hepatitis A outbreak in Mecca at some point in the recent past. Glad to see they're requiring the vaccine.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 120 new reported deaths, along with 6 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

 

[JoeCamel]

Did you ever get a call for your second shot appointment?

The night before my second was due I got an email with a link where I could book. I did for tomorrow and since then I have had two reminder emails, a text and two phone calls to be sure I got it. I am impressed but the lack of communication and the message "we will call you" for two weeks was a fumble. At least it is done, now if I can skate on symptoms from the second I'm happy.

 

[correcaminos]

I think they are more using the phase 3 ongoing subjects as the canary birds to vaccine duration. Though real world can counter that. Phase 3 are well past 3 months, but EUA are not past 3 months. So for duration, Phase 3 is the leading indicator.

Bad news for those of us that are part of the leading indicator is that we will therefore always be outside the range since last vaccination unless we become part of a booster study ( without placebo group)

My guess is that places like cruises won't have that because it would be too hard. Eventually we could get strong enough numbers with antibodies many months later that they decide it's more like MMR shots or HPV. Get your two shots and your done. Will be interesting to follow and see how cautious people remain