Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

All you are doing is setting up a regulatory framework with a different name.

Yes. I thought that was clear.

 

[dizneyingaffect]

Israel has partially vaccinated ~50% of adults, has mask and social distancing requirements, and yet:

"The government decided to proceed with the new round of openings in spite of the climb in the infection rate to 1 on Monday.

The R rate measures the ability of the disease to spread, indicating how many other people each person carrying the virus will infect. The figure has been increasing across Israel over the past few days, but it is especially high among Arab-Israelis, standing at 1.12.

Maintaining the R rate at 1 or below is one of the criteria that the Health Ministry has set to allow relaxing restrictions, together with the number of people fully vaccinated and the number of patients in serious conditions."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To be clear. This was understanding of your point. Not support of it.

There's no way it would the way you think it would work. In your best case scenario, you've replaced a government by the people, that's at least somewhat responsive to the public with large companies setting rules that only policy holders can see. In the worse case, you create isolated shell companies and deadbeats that simply take the risk knowing they lose everything if it fails. Which doesn't help the victim at all.

The entire tragedy of the commons is based on this. If I'm infected, but want to PARTY!!!, current mitigations try to prevent me from doing activities that will put others in danger. If we eliminate them, only their ability to sue me puts any constraint on my action. Good luck, as I've got nothing and hence no risk.

Community spread, the thing we need to reduce to a manageable level is a community problem. While individual actions can contribute to or delay the resolution, they cannot solve it on their own. They require a community action to reach goal.

I know you weren't agreeing with me, but you seem to be the only one who has tried to digest where I'm coming from in good faith, so thank you for that.

Regarding the tragedy of the commons, I think you're overestimating 1) the number of people who are reckless and 2) the number of reckless people who follow government mandates. That PARTY bro is going to PARTY regardless of whether he can be sued *and also* regardless of whatever mandatory mitigation programs come out of his state capitol.

Nobody is out there wearing masks ONLY because their governor says they have to. They're wearing masks because they think it's a good idea, because they feel social pressure, or because private businesses say they have to. Those forces would still be in place without mandates. There is absolutely no one who thinks "masks don't work but I'm going to wear one to be faithful to Andrew Cuomo's Executive Order Number 18462" or whatever.

 

[Flugell]

You guys seem to be attributing to me things you've seen on Twitter, I guess?

I'm not saying COVID is fake. I'm not saying COVID isn't dangerous. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy. I'm not saying my preferred course of action would have led to fewer deaths.

I'm saying *I don't care* how serious it is, because nothing justifies what they've done to people's liberty and autonomy for the past year. I don't care if it would have lead to 10 million deaths. So be it.

Just wondering what your namesake/avatar would make of the death of 10,000,000 Americans being dismissed with a “So be it.”?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Just wondering what your namesake/avatar would make of the death of 10,000,000 Americans being dismissed with a “So be it.”?

"This isn't freedom. This is fear."

In broad strokes, you guys are taking the Tony Stark approach. Sign the Sokovia Accords, government knows best.

 

[GoofGoof]

Israel has partially vaccinated ~50% of adults, has mask and social distancing requirements, and yet:

"The government decided to proceed with the new round of openings in spite of the climb in the infection rate to 1 on Monday.

The R rate measures the ability of the disease to spread, indicating how many other people each person carrying the virus will infect. The figure has been increasing across Israel over the past few days, but it is especially high among Arab-Israelis, standing at 1.12.

Maintaining the R rate at 1 or below is one of the criteria that the Health Ministry has set to allow relaxing restrictions, together with the number of people fully vaccinated and the number of patients in serious conditions."

The formal definition of herd immunity is an R naught under 1 so their removal of restrictions was based on achieving the start of herd immunity. It’s pretty good for Israel that they are approaching that level with 52% of the population partially vaccinated and 38% with both shots. For those playing along at home if we hit the targets manufacturers have laid out and if we get the jabs in the arm done in a timely manner and if we get enough people to accept the vaccine we should be at that level before the end of April. Wouldn‘t it be great for the Summer if we reached the start of herd immunity as early as April 30

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would like to know more about the theory of "preemptive lawsuits." Who would have standing to bring them? If there are no actual damages, what would be the incentive for filing them?

If just government derives it’s authority only from the consent of the governed then it is no different than regulations that prevent harm. That power is just being given back to the people.

It’s just an idea that misses the forest for the trees. It’s so wrapped up in being able to claim that the government is now smaller that the far more costly and onerous judicial system is completely missed.

Regarding the tragedy of the commons, I think you're overestimating 1) the number of people who are reckless and 2) the number of reckless people who follow government mandates. That PARTY bro is going to PARTY regardless of whether he can be sued *and also* regardless of whatever mandatory mitigation programs come out of his state capitol.

With something like building and fire codes the people who are creating dangerous situations are not knowingly being reckless. More often they are doing something they think is perfectly fine and will not be an issue. Back at the start of the pandemic when there was high concern about surfaces contributing to spread places were propping open doors so that people did not have to touch them. Depending on the door that can be a very serious problem. Do you know why some doors being open in a fire is a problem? Do you know how to check so that you could initiate your preemptive class action lawsuit?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If just government derives it’s authority only from the consent of the governed then it is no different than regulations that prevent harm. That power is just being given back to the people.

It’s just an idea that misses the forest for the trees. It’s so wrapped up in being able to claim that the government is now smaller that the far more costly and onerous judicial system is completely missed.

With something like building and fire codes the people who are creating dangerous situations are not knowingly being reckless. More often they are doing something they think is perfectly fine and will not be an issue. Back at the start of the pandemic when there was high concern about surfaces contributing to spread places were propping open doors. Depending on the door that can be a very serious problem. Do you know why some doors being open in a fire is a problem? Do you know how to check so that you could initiate your preemptive class action lawsuit?

We can outsource and crowdsource expertise. I know that my Subaru Ascent is a very safe vehicle. I am not a mechanical engineer, but the guys at IIHS are and they told me so, and I trust their opinion.

 

[DisneyCane]

actually that doesn't surprise me. I drive on 95 every day to work and I've noticed a huge increase in speed because now there aren't as many cars on the road. Whew, I use to be surprised when someone hit 80, now it seems like 90 is the norm. You lose control at 90 mph and it isn't going to be pretty.

During the lockdowns in South Florida, my wife was commuting on Florida's Turnpike and she noticed people driving at crazy speeds. She said if she didn't do 80 (in 65 MPH zones) she felt like she was standing still and that somebody was going to plow into the back of her.

 

[danlb_2000]

I recently watched the movie Outbreak for the first time in years and it got me thinking, I wonder how this pandemic would have played out if the virus had had a much higher fatality rate. What if 50% of the people who caught it died?

 

[Heppenheimer]

I recently watched the movie Outbreak for the first time in years and it got me thinking, I wonder how this pandemic would have played out if the virus had had a much higher fatality rate. What if 50% of the people who caught it died?

Well, according to some here, lockdowns would still have been the worst tragedy.

 

[seascape]

I recently watched the movie Outbreak for the first time in years and it got me thinking, I wonder how this pandemic would have played out if the virus had had a much higher fatality rate. What if 50% of the people who caught it died?

The biggest thing to know about the Covid19 Vaccine is that it only took our researchers 5 days to develop the vaccine. Yes, 5 days and then 10 months of testing. We need to work on speeding up the testing process do next time there are only hundreds of deaths.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I'm not talking about lawsuits after the fact, I'm talking about lawsuits in advance of the fact.

OK...but what about the workers? Do they get a say? That's also where your theory falls apart.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The biggest thing to know about the Covid19 Vaccine is that it only took our researchers 5 days to develop the vaccine. Yes, 5 days and then 10 months of testing. We need to work on speeding up the testing process do next time there are only hundreds of deaths.

And if next time it isn’t a virus?

 

[Polkadotdress]

On Friday, Governor Desantis made a small, but important to some people, change to the executive order that covers the administration of Vaccines. The following was added:



Essentially it means that if you have a comorbidity that puts you at extremely high risk from COVID-19, your doctor can write a prescription that allows you to get vaccinated. I know @Polkadotdress was able to get an appointment from the time Walmart made an error but other people in similar situations now have more options than to just go to a hospital that has vaccines available.

YES! I was able to take advantage of the WalMart mistake, and now only have 2 weeks left before shot #2. BUT...I'm so glad that the window is now open for all those who are high risk to be able to properly get the vaccine.

 

[giantgolfer]

Wife and I got our first shots (Moderna) last week. So excited to be moving to that next step of normalcy back in our lives!

We’re now all booked for late June trip to WDW staying at Yacht Club and Wilderness Lodge!!

 

[havoc315]

I recently watched the movie Outbreak for the first time in years and it got me thinking, I wonder how this pandemic would have played out if the virus had had a much higher fatality rate. What if 50% of the people who caught it died?

Thing is... infections with 50% fatality rates don’t tend to spread much, unless they have very long incubation periods.

Because:
1. Dead people don’t spread the infection
2. With such a high fatality rate, the level of precautions would be so ridiculously high

A virus with a long asymptomatic but transmissible incubation period.. and 2-5% fatality... would likely be the ultimate danger.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I get it, you're not religious.

Either way, "illegal to gather in large groups" is just as bad, even if church had nothing to do with it. Free association and freedom of exercise are BOTH bedrock enumerated rights.

Why were churches limited or “discouraged”?

Simple question

 

[danlb_2000]

The biggest thing to know about the Covid19 Vaccine is that it only took our researchers 5 days to develop the vaccine. Yes, 5 days and then 10 months of testing. We need to work on speeding up the testing process do next time there are only hundreds of deaths.

I was listening to a recent episode of the This Week in Virology podcast and in a discussion of vaccine safety they said side effect from vaccines pretty much always show up within 6 weeks of administration. So I guess in a dire emergency they could skip a lot of the efficacy testing and just do the 6 weeks of safety testing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We can outsource and crowdsource expertise. I know that my Subaru Ascent is a very safe vehicle. I am not a mechanical engineer, but the guys at IIHS are and they told me so, and I trust their opinion.

So then why not trust an organization of fire fighters and professional fire fighters? Because instead of filing class action lawsuits and wasting time and money on those proceedings they are able to effectively do the same thing through their own authority?