Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ToTBellHop]

You are confusing government funding and "intervention." People below a certain income level would have great difficulty PAYING for proper medical care without government programs/funding. They are not "locked out" of getting care or prescriptions once they receive the government benefits.

With respect to the COVID vaccines, they are being paid for by the Federal Government. Nobody will be "locked out" of getting it if they want to get it no matter their income, wealth, race or ethnicity. Once there are enough doses, everybody who wants to be vaccinated will be and there won't be any cost to get vaccinated.

The only thing you can argue is that somebody without access to a smart phone, tablet or computer will have difficulty getting an appointment at one of the retail partners. However, at least in FL, there is a phone number to call to be put on the waiting list for appointments. If it had been done through retail partners and hospitals only, they could have just made having a phone option for appointments a clause in the contract since the Government is paying for it. They could also have required the distribution to be based on population of people 65+ (and later total population) so that all communities would get their fair share of appointments.

Government micromanagement of distribution is not necessary for that to happen.

You are grossly over-simplifying this. The government must do much more than buy the vaccines to actually get them into the arms of minorities, the poor, and the undocumented. We are already seeing a serious disparity between white people getting vaccine and everyone else. And it will slow down our recovery. Virus isolated in urban areas will not stay in urban areas. It will spread and mutate.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

GOODMORNING

WOW! OKAY!
SO

I woke up yesterday feeling fine. Arm was still stinging but I could move it around and stuff. I had no headache which I woke up with a huge migraine the first time. SO Waking up feeling great yesterday Was like '"YEAHHHHHHH!!! WOOT WOOT! I escaped the curse of the second dose!!!"

and then.....

at 12:13 PM

I felt HORRID. HORRID! For the rest of the day. Chills, fever, nausea, terrible body aches.

I am now feeling better, slight headache, fatigue, and some body soreness, but I would say I'm 95% better now.

The second dose is no joke.

 

[ToTBellHop]

A coworker just put this pretty simply: if you only have enough vaccines for half of people in America anytime soon, it would be far better for our virus response (goal: decrease spread and mutation, pull hospitalizations and deaths way down) to vaccinate half of every community in America--not all of half of the communities in America.

 

[DisneyCane]

A coworker just put this pretty simply: if you only have enough vaccines for half of people in America anytime soon, it would be far better for our virus response (goal: decrease spread and mutation, pull hospitalizations and deaths way down) to vaccinate half of every community in America--not all of half of the communities in America.

First of all, there aren't enough doses to vaccinate half of the people in the US yet, not even close. If there were, the best thing to do based on statistics and knowing where spread is worst would be to vaccinate all people 55 and over followed by urban areas ranked by population density and doing 100% of the people in those until you run out of doses. Vaccinating half of every community won't reduce spread enough to be better than vaccinating half of the communities if the half is the most densely populated half where the virus spreads the easiest.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

You forget the last week of the previous administration when they told the states a big shipment was coming, but there was no big shipment to ship.

Or when they panicked when they heard about states having a backlog of doses that were not being given out and so they breathlessly told the states 'jump to everyone 65+!!' when that wasn't the issue at all. The issue was people at all levels holding back 2nd doses (due to lack of communication of a plan... because there wasn't a plan) and states putting aside and being real slow about vaccinating LTC facilities. But the Feds didn't know that because they weren't keeping track, like they should have.

States that followed the 65+ recommendation wound up putting all their 1b and 1c people who weren't over 65 at the end of the line and created a panic because then the states were overwhelmed with people looking for doses that weren't there.

Don't forget that there shouldn't have been so few doses in December because the previous administration was promising 20 million doses in December and failed miserably to meet that goal.

This

You are grossly over-simplifying this. The government must do much more than buy the vaccines to actually get them into the arms of minorities, the poor, and the undocumented. We are already seeing a serious disparity between white people getting vaccine and everyone else. And it will slow down our recovery. Virus isolated in urban areas will not stay in urban areas. It will spread and mutate.

View attachment 533231

And this. Two excellent posts back to back.

 

[ToTBellHop]

First of all, there aren't enough doses to vaccinate half of the people in the US yet, not even close. If there were, the best thing to do based on statistics and knowing where spread is worst would be to vaccinate all people 55 and over followed by urban areas ranked by population density and doing 100% of the people in those until you run out of doses. Vaccinating half of every community won't reduce spread enough to be better than vaccinating half of the communities if the half is the most densely populated half where the virus spreads the easiest.

You completely missed the point.

And vaccinating 50% of every community would dramatically lower cases. Because math.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Even if the US federal government didn’t literally foot the bill (Pfizer only) the reason those companies are making vaccines at the scale they are now is because of American funding. I’m never going to apologize for being first in line for something we paid for. Once we’re done I have no doubt we will start donating our surplus and resources to other countries, untill Earth has a unified World Government, this is the way.

The Lizard Lords have already created One World Government.

The U.S. has rejoined WHO and COVAX. Congress has already spent about $7B for worldwide pandemic relief. The Biden administration wants to make it $11B.

By August, if AZ, J&J, and Novavax come through with their pre-paid commitments, the U.S. will have about 300M vaccines to share with the world from their over-order.

Also, a bunch of other companies' vaccines are getting approved, which will be needed to vaccinate 7B people.

 

[DisneyCane]

You completely missed the point.

And vaccinating 50% of every community would dramatically lower cases. Because math.

Fuzzy math. Eliminating 100% of cases in 50% of the communities is the same thing as eliminating 50% of cases in 100% of communities so I'd rather vaccinate 100% of the communities where spread is more likely to occur. Spread is far more likely in New York City than it is in Des Moines, IA.

 

[ToTBellHop]

The Lizard Lord have already created One World Government.

The U.S. has rejoined WHO and COVAX. Congress has already spent about $7B for worldwide pandemic relief. The Biden administration wants to make it $11B.

By August, if AZ, J&J, and Novavax come through with their pre-paid commitments, the U.S. will have about 300M vaccines to share with the world from their over-order.

Also, a bunch of other companies' vaccines are getting approved, which will be needed to vaccinate 7B people.

Thank goodness. Developing countries like Canada, France, Spain, and Germany need vaccine doses!

 

[ToTBellHop]

Fuzzy math. Eliminating 100% of cases in 50% of the communities is the same thing as eliminating 50% of cases in 100% of communities so I'd rather vaccinate 100% of the communities where spread is more likely to occur. Spread is far more likely in New York City than it is in Des Moines, IA.

Okay. We are doing the opposite. Cities are being vaccinated at a much lower rate than suburbs and more rural towns.

If you vaccinate 100% of some towns, the virus goes to other towns...it’s airborne. Remember when people in the middle of America thought Covid was a coastal problem? Then it spread.

If you vaccinate 50% of every community, you tremendously lower spread since half of the potential hosts are immune. It’s very simple. That’s why vaccines are being distributed on a per capita basis.

If you disagree with all of the scientists recommending the current system of rollout, I think you’re probably mistaken.

 

[DisneyCane]

Okay. We are doing the opposite. Cities are being vaccinated at a much lower rate than suburbs and more rural towns.

If you vaccinate 100% of some towns, the virus goes to other towns...it’s airborne. Remember when people in the middle of America thought Covid was a coastal problem? Then it spread.

If you vaccinate 50% of every community, you tremendously lower spread since half of the potential hosts are immune. It’s very simple. That’s why vaccines are being distributed on a per capita basis.

If you disagree with all of the scientists recommending the current system of rollout, I think you’re probably mistaken.

We're vaccinating, at least on FL and a lot of other states, 65+. Total doses to date aren't close to enough to reduce spread even if 95% of vaccinated can't spread it.

I certainly agree with that. The scientists aren't recommending trying to put a dent in community spread at this point because there aren't enough doses. With different criteria, the scientists are recommending highest risk individuals first.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 163 new reported deaths, along with 3 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

 

[DCBaker]

Current Florida vaccine report -

 

[danlb_2000]

Numbers are out - there were 163 new reported deaths, along with 3 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

View attachment 533289View attachment 533290View attachment 533291View attachment 533292

Florida has seen a steady drop in cases for over a month now but still not seeing a significant drop in deaths.

 

[Incomudro]

Okay. We are doing the opposite. Cities are being vaccinated at a much lower rate than suburbs and more rural towns.

If you vaccinate 100% of some towns, the virus goes to other towns...it’s airborne. Remember when people in the middle of America thought Covid was a coastal problem? Then it spread.

If you vaccinate 50% of every community, you tremendously lower spread since half of the potential hosts are immune. It’s very simple. That’s why vaccines are being distributed on a per capita basis.

If you disagree with all of the scientists recommending the current system of rollout, I think you’re probably mistaken.

It's not "airborne," and it doesn't go to other towns.
Not like that.
Smaller towns, lower population densities equal lower spread.
It spreads, but not at the same rate.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait...did someone suggest going “MAGA” with the vaccine distribution?

That’s works like a dream...like a methane fired plant outside San Antonio

The purpose of government services are to provide for essentials that are either too complex or too expensive for a million individual “opinions” to deliver...

...so vaccinating the entire world’s population may just drift into those waters a little.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Florida has seen a steady drop in cases for over a month now but still not seeing a significant drop in deaths.

View attachment 533296

It’s a hoax...Ron said so in a news conference in May

 

[havoc315]

If you look at the chart of vaccination you can see it steadily increasing from December till now. The efficiency of last mile distribution/delivery increased throughout that time, nothing magical happened in that regards on Jan 20th. The limiting factor quickly became what everyone expected to be the limiting factor: How much vaccine is manufactured. Most distribution kinks were detected and state and local authorities adapted distribution accordingly.

Ahh, the partisan politics. Biden has incentive to exaggerate the improvements attributed to his plan, while anti-Biden elements would want to dismiss them.

It's completely true that vaccine delivery and actual jabs were rising even before Biden took office. They would have continued to rise under a Trump Presidency as well.

Where Biden and his team actually have improved things a bit:
-- Greater transparency and communication with the states, so they actually know how much vaccine to reasonably expect in the near future.
-- use of the DPA to increase production of necessary elements for vaccinations, but we probably aren't really seeing the effect of that output yet.
-- Greater Federal role in the final delivery of the vaccine, the actual jabs. But we haven't really seen the impact of this yet. The Federal government is just starting to set up FEMA vaccination sites. But this change will likely raise the ceiling of jabs we can administer a day. Thing is, we hadn't hit the existing ceiling yet. So this is a change that could have a positive impact, but we aren't actually seeing that impact yet. (They are opening a joint Federal/State super-site near me on March 3rd, for example)

 

[havoc315]

Fuzzy math. Eliminating 100% of cases in 50% of the communities is the same thing as eliminating 50% of cases in 100% of communities so I'd rather vaccinate 100% of the communities where spread is more likely to occur. Spread is far more likely in New York City than it is in Des Moines, IA.

Take a look at the surge in the Dakotas in the fall. Spread is not just an urban issue.
And don't confusing vaccination with elimination of cases.

You don't need to vaccinate 100% of people to eliminate 100% of cases. First off, even if you vaccinated 100%, you could still get a small number of cases. But you also get diminishing returns with a greater level of vaccination. You can eliminate MORE than 50% of cases, and especially MORE than 50% of deaths, by vaccinating 50% of FEWER of people in a community. Especially if you target the vaccine to those most at risk.

Let's do a rough hypothetic illustration. Two communities of equal population, each averaging 100 deaths per month.
If you vaccinate 50% of the community, targeting those vaccines to those at highest risk... Factoring in that you are getting closer to herd immunity... You can bring those deaths down from 100 per month, down to 20 per month.
So if you vaccinated both communities, at 50%.... You'd get down to a total of 40 deaths per month.
Let's say you vaccinates 100% of 1 community -- bringing it down to 1 death per month. 0% of the second community -- so they still have 100 deaths per month.
In this example, you'd still have 101 total deaths per month.

Point being.... you'll actual eliminate far more cases and deaths by spreading around the vaccine to all communities, than making it all or none.

 

[havoc315]

It’s a hoax...Ron said so in a news conference in May

Deaths do lag cases...
Florida reports deaths slower than many other states, waiting for greater confirmation than other states require.

Florida also likely underreports deaths. They take the approach of, "it's only a Covid death if we are 100% certain it's a Covid death. Otherwise, it doesn't count." Other states take the approach of, "if it's more likely than not a Covid death, then it counts as a Covid death."

There is often a misperception that deaths can be narrowed down to a single cause. In fact, most deaths have multiple contributing factors. The majority of deaths are ultimately caused by cardiac arrest -- the heart stops -- but that doesn't mean most deaths are caused by a heart attack. Someone may, (non-Covid example), die from a cardiac arrest. But the cardiac arrest is secondary to kidney failure. And the kidney failure is due to multi-organ failure from sepsis. And the sepsis is due to a bacterial infection. And the body didn't properly respond due to the bacteria, because the person has an auto-immune disease. And the bacteria was introduced when someone was scratching their eczema. So the death was caused by eczema, auto-immune disease, sepsis, kidney failure, and finally cardiac arrest.