Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ToTBellHop]

I hope government officials read this thread. There are many experts on pandemic management and mass vaccine rollout here (I presume folks here managed the 1918 flu epidemic and lessons-learned inform their advice here). The level of intellect here is astonishing—folks are working from home, supervising their kids’ Zoom school, and explaining how they know the best way to rollout vaccine to 7 billion people!

Wowzers! Make sure your phones are set to vibrate as you don’t want to interrupt Zoom school when the leaders of every nation on Earth start calling you this afternoon.

 

[Touchdown]

I know I might be beating a dead horse, but to all you complainers out there. Stop comparing to a hypothetical reality and instead compare the US to other countries:

Compared based on population we are currently #5 worldwide with only much, much smaller countries ahead of us, in fact when you just compare raw numbers:

We are #1 and ahead by a whopping 33% from country #2. In fact American jabs account for roughly 1 out 3 doses WORLDWIDE! After embarrassing ourselves for nearly a year, the vaccination campaign is finally showing the world some American exceptionalism again. Let’s not also forget the two leading vaccines globally were either an American joint venture (Pfizer) or completely American (Moderna) and we’ve got two other good candidates (Johnson&Johnson, Novavax) coming too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can't have a government without people running for office, which makes them politicians.

No government is anarchy.

Therefore, your post is one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. It's just emotional sloganeering.

Dumbest thing I’ve seen since the last Jed.....oh nevermind

 

[lazyboy97o]

I hope government officials read this thread. There are many experts on pandemic management and mass vaccine rollout here (I presume folks here managed the 1918 flu epidemic and lessons-learned inform their advice here). The level of intellect here is astonishing—folks are working from home, supervising their kids’ Zoom school, and explaining how they know the best way to rollout vaccine to 7 billion people!

Wowzers! Make sure your phones are set to vibrate as you don’t want to interrupt Zoom school when the leaders of every nation on Earth start calling you this afternoon.

The real experts are in the Disneyland threads.

 

[DisneyCane]

I hope government officials read this thread. There are many experts on pandemic management and mass vaccine rollout here (I presume folks here managed the 1918 flu epidemic and lessons-learned inform their advice here). The level of intellect here is astonishing—folks are working from home, supervising their kids’ Zoom school, and explaining how they know the best way to rollout vaccine to 7 billion people!

Wowzers! Make sure your phones are set to vibrate as you don’t want to interrupt Zoom school when the leaders of every nation on Earth start calling you this afternoon.

For vaccine distribution, there really doesn't need to be that much, if any Government involvement. With Pfizer and Moderna there are some logistics related to the cold shipping and storage but neither are "rocket science" issues. Aside from that, billions of flu shots have been delivered yearly worldwide without being micromanaged by politicians.

I don't know if the data is available but I'd be curious to know how many flu shots are given per day at the peak each year?

 

[Touchdown]

For vaccine distribution, there really doesn't need to be that much, if any Government involvement. With Pfizer and Moderna there are some logistics related to the cold shipping and storage but neither are "rocket science" issues. Aside from that, billions of flu shots have been delivered yearly worldwide without being micromanaged by politicians.

I don't know if the data is available but I'd be curious to know how many flu shots are given per day at the peak each year?

The flu vaccine isn’t in short supply, thus no pressure to price gouge. Need I remind you of the continuing cluster that is N95 mask or last springs ventilator distribution to bring up good examples of how private distribution can fail?

 

[ToTBellHop]

For vaccine distribution, there really doesn't need to be that much, if any Government involvement. With Pfizer and Moderna there are some logistics related to the cold shipping and storage but neither are "rocket science" issues. Aside from that, billions of flu shots have been delivered yearly worldwide without being micromanaged by politicians.

I don't know if the data is available but I'd be curious to know how many flu shots are given per day at the peak each year?

If there were no government involvement, only wealthy people would get shots. To hell with poor people, right?

Actually, some government officials don’t care about poor people either. See also: Manatee County.

I agree micromanagement is a problem (e.g. fines for administering excess doses rather than throw them out), but there’s nuance here. There are levels of management between anarchy and micromanagement. And the government has access to resources that Pfizer doesn’t.

 

[Heppenheimer]

While I don’t think they’re “playing games” if they are trying to lead the public to the correct decision, they are certainly trying to shift the public opinion away from that which they inherited on 1/20.

They are just marketing in the way psychologists suggest they should. Hitting people over the head with alerts that “the vaccine is here” while also continually reminding everyone that you’ll have to fight for your shot at first does, indeed, create interest in the vaccine because we are social animals that like to copy each other. I’m seeing jealous comments where a Facebook friend gets the shot and people respond, “how?! Wish I could get one!!11”

No one really needs a PS5 right now (the games work on PS4). But when you are constantly reminded that it’s a hard product to get and you see people on Facebook who have one, you want one, too.

I remember several years ago when their were problems with the seasonal flu shot and supplies were low. I've never seen such a surge in demand, which of course, wasn't sustained the following year once supplies were plentiful.

 

[DisneyCane]

The flu vaccine isn’t in short supply, thus no pressure to price gouge. Need I remind you of the continuing cluster that is N95 mask or last springs ventilator distribution to bring up good examples of how private distribution can fail?

I'm talking about distribution logistics, not purchasing.

If there were no government involvement, only wealthy people would get shots. To hell with poor people, right?

Actually, some government officials don’t care about poor people either. See also: Manatee County.

I agree micromanagement is a problem (e.g. fines for administering excess doses rather than throw them out), but there’s nuance here. There are levels of management between anarchy and micromanagement. And the government has resources that Pfizer doesn’t.

Again, I'm talking about distribution logistics so why wouldn't poor people get it if it was already paid for by the Government contracts? Stop with the talking point BS about Manatee County. There was legitimate age related demographic data and vaccination rate data which made it perfectly reasonable to target those zip codes. We're also talking about 3,000 people out of around 2.5 million people vaccinated so far. Are the Pinellas Park, FL seniors being targeted with 3,000 doses also too wealthy? Median income there is around $50,000.

What about the multiple vaccination outreach sites that have been done at inner city churches which were done weeks before the evil Governor made sure to get 3,000 doses to the rich, white folks in Manatee County? I guess he cared about poor people then and then decided to stop caring about them?

I've got some news, people 65 and over tend to be wealthier because a decent percentage of them have saved through their lives, paid off houses earlier in their lives and have completed their careers. That fact will hold true irrespective of race or ethnicity.

 

[hopemax]

I know I might be beating a dead horse, but to all you complainers out there. Stop comparing to a hypothetical reality and instead compare the US to other countries:

View attachment 533159
Compared based on population we are currently #5 worldwide with only much, much smaller countries ahead of us, in fact when you just compare raw numbers:

View attachment 533158We are #1 and ahead by a whopping 33% from country #2. In fact American jabs account for roughly 1 out 3 doses WORLDWIDE! After embarrassing ourselves for nearly a year, the vaccination campaign is finally showing the world some American exceptionalism again. Let’s not also forget the two leading vaccines globally were either an American joint venture (Pfizer) or completely American (Moderna) and we’ve got two other good candidates (Johnson&Johnson, Novavax) coming too.

I would just point out that it’s a lot easier to get shots in arms when your country is being prioritized for vaccine delivery. We have no idea what the speed of the countries farther down the list might be IF they were getting vials at the rate the US is. Given that some of the smaller countries were able to test their entire populations in a weekend, I think they would repeat the feat for vaccinations. That doesn’t make the US exceptional; just rich enough to be at the front of the queue. The chart might as well be a shipping distribution. It’s the height of privilege to assume that it has anything to do with competence at getting the actual shots done efficiently.

 

[MisterPenguin]

If there were no government involvement, only wealthy people would get shots. To hell with poor people, right?

Actually, some government officials don’t care about poor people either. See also: Manatee County.

I agree micromanagement is a problem (e.g. fines for administering excess doses rather than throw them out), but there’s nuance here. There are levels of management between anarchy and micromanagement. And the government has access to resources that Pfizer doesn’t.

Maybe we should deregulate vaccine distribution like Texas deregulated their power utilities!

Oh, wait, we know what vaccine distribution looks like when deregulated during this past December and January.

 

[Touchdown]

I would just point out that it’s a lot easier to get shots in arms when your country is being prioritized for vaccine delivery. We have no idea what the speed of the countries farther down the list might be IF they were getting vials at the rate the US is. Given that some of the smaller countries were able to test their entire populations in a weekend, I think they would repeat the feat for vaccinations. That doesn’t make the US exceptional; just rich enough to be at the front of the queue. The chart might as well be a shipping distribution. It’s the height of privilege to assume that it has anything to do with competence at getting the actual shots done efficiently.

Where are those vaccines being manufactured? What “nationality” are the company’s who designed the vaccines, and what countries stock exchange (and thus the nationality of a vast majority of the investors) are they listed on?

Even if the US federal government didn’t literally foot the bill (Pfizer only) the reason those companies are making vaccines at the scale they are now is because of American funding. I’m never going to apologize for being first in line for something we paid for. Once we’re done I have no doubt we will start donating our surplus and resources to other countries, untill Earth has a unified World Government, this is the way.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I think President Biden have to speed up vaccinations faster by summer or fall to go back to normal by summer or fall than next year.
Teachers, young adults, workers and more needs vaccine so badly. It's taking too slow.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I'm talking about distribution logistics, not purchasing.

Again, I'm talking about distribution logistics so why wouldn't poor people get it if it was already paid for by the Government contracts? Stop with the talking point BS about Manatee County. There was legitimate age related demographic data and vaccination rate data which made it perfectly reasonable to target those zip codes. We're also talking about 3,000 people out of around 2.5 million people vaccinated so far. Are the Pinellas Park, FL seniors being targeted with 3,000 doses also too wealthy? Median income there is around $50,000.

What about the multiple vaccination outreach sites that have been done at inner city churches which were done weeks before the evil Governor made sure to get 3,000 doses to the rich, white folks in Manatee County? I guess he cared about poor people then and then decided to stop caring about them?

I've got some news, people 65 and over tend to be wealthier because a decent percentage of them have saved through their lives, paid off houses earlier in their lives and have completed their careers. That fact will hold true irrespective of race or ethnicity.

It is demonstrably true that the poor and minorities are locked out of proper medical care without government intervention. But I’m sure you know better than every democracy on earth.

 

[Kevin_W]

For vaccine distribution, there really doesn't need to be that much, if any Government involvement. With Pfizer and Moderna there are some logistics related to the cold shipping and storage but neither are "rocket science" issues. Aside from that, billions of flu shots have been delivered yearly worldwide without being micromanaged by politicians.

I don't know if the data is available but I'd be curious to know how many flu shots are given per day at the peak each year?

Good question. The CDC says the last 2 years ~170MM doses of flu vaccine have been given. If we assumed a flat distribution over 12 weeks (unlikely), that would be 14MM shots per week. It's probably higher than that at peak delivery times and does not seem to stress the delivery model (I've never had to schedule or wait for a shot).

 

[hopemax]

Where are those vaccines being manufactured? What “nationality” are the company’s who designed the vaccines, and what countries stock exchange (and thus the nationality of a vast majority of the investors) are they listed on?

Even if the US federal government didn’t literally foot the bill (Pfizer only) the reason those companies are making vaccines at the scale they are now is because of American funding. I’m never going to apologize for being first in line for something we paid for. Once we’re done I have no doubt we will start donating our surplus and resources to other countries, untill Earth has a unified World Government, this is the way.

Really. That’s what your takeaway is. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be first. I’m saying we shouldn’t use the fact that we are first to mean we are more competent than everyone else at the actual efficiency at jabbing. It’s like someone who buys a VIP tour declaring themselves the best at maximizing Fastpass.

 

[Disney Experience]

Maybe we should deregulate vaccine distribution like Texas deregulated their power utilities!

Oh, wait, we know what vaccine distribution looks like when deregulated during this past December and January.

If you look at the chart of vaccination you can see it steadily increasing from December till now. The efficiency of last mile distribution/delivery increased throughout that time, nothing magical happened in that regards on Jan 20th. The limiting factor quickly became what everyone expected to be the limiting factor: How much vaccine is manufactured. Most distribution kinks were detected and state and local authorities adapted distribution accordingly.

 

[DisneyCane]

It is demonstrably true that the poor and minorities are locked out of proper medical care without government intervention. But I’m sure you know better than every democracy on earth.

You are confusing government funding and "intervention." People below a certain income level would have great difficulty PAYING for proper medical care without government programs/funding. They are not "locked out" of getting care or prescriptions once they receive the government benefits.

With respect to the COVID vaccines, they are being paid for by the Federal Government. Nobody will be "locked out" of getting it if they want to get it no matter their income, wealth, race or ethnicity. Once there are enough doses, everybody who wants to be vaccinated will be and there won't be any cost to get vaccinated.

The only thing you can argue is that somebody without access to a smart phone, tablet or computer will have difficulty getting an appointment at one of the retail partners. However, at least in FL, there is a phone number to call to be put on the waiting list for appointments. If it had been done through retail partners and hospitals only, they could have just made having a phone option for appointments a clause in the contract since the Government is paying for it. They could also have required the distribution to be based on population of people 65+ (and later total population) so that all communities would get their fair share of appointments.

Government micromanagement of distribution is not necessary for that to happen.

 

[Disney Experience]

Really. That’s what your takeaway is. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be first. I’m saying we shouldn’t use the fact that we are first to mean we are more competent than everyone else at the actual efficiency at jabbing. It’s like someone who buys a VIP tour declaring themselves the best at maximizing Fastpass.

I agree since shot supply is the limiting factor for all countries. The efficiency of delivery is not limiting the final number of shots in the arm for most countries.

 

[MisterPenguin]

If you look at the chart of vaccination you can see it steadily increasing from December till now. The efficiency of last mile distribution/delivery increased throughout that time, nothing magical happened in that regards on Jan 20th. The limiting factor quickly became what everyone expected to be the limiting factor: How much vaccine is manufactured. Most distribution kinks were detected and state and local authorities adapted distribution accordingly.

You forget the last week of the previous administration when they told the states a big shipment was coming, but there was no big shipment to ship.

Or when they panicked when they heard about states having a backlog of doses that were not being given out and so they breathlessly told the states 'jump to everyone 65+!!' when that wasn't the issue at all. The issue was people at all levels holding back 2nd doses (due to lack of communication of a plan... because there wasn't a plan) and states putting aside and being real slow about vaccinating LTC facilities. But the Feds didn't know that because they weren't keeping track, like they should have.

States that followed the 65+ recommendation wound up putting all their 1b and 1c people who weren't over 65 at the end of the line and created a panic because then the states were overwhelmed with people looking for doses that weren't there.

Don't forget that there shouldn't have been so few doses in December because the previous administration was promising 20 million doses in December and failed miserably to meet that goal.