Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Definitely seeing the drop off in vaccines administered the last few days. I assume the result of the winter storm that impacted a large portion of the country. Hopefully we see an uptick later in the week to make up for lost time.

 

[BrianLo]

You can’t claim a group is isolated when they are consistently having contact with persons who are not isolated. That just doesn’t follow. It’s a bubble full of holes. Other diseases don’t have the level of a- and pre-symptomatic spread which is what allowed doctors to interact with high risk patients, along with using proper protective equipment as necessary. The places that have had the best economic success are those who quickly, decisively and aggressively dealt with the pandemic. That is how you get to have your cake and eat it too.

And are happier! Jacinda Ardern was re-elected with the first majority government in decades.

She is also the world's youngest female elected head of government and the second to have a baby while in office.

She probably was more deserving to be the Times Person of the year if it was a little less domestically focused... but I digress.


Not to exclusively make things political, but the same effect was also seen in British Columbia (which by no means is an unpopulated province). It still has a lower death rate that Vermont and also saw a minority leader convert to a landslide majority because of their swift and decisive early pandemic response.

All of which is to say strong, decisive and tough decisions made people happier, which bore out in the polls.

 

[matt9112]

I’m sure you’re right. I don’t usually subscribe to conspiracy theories - I blame PTSD from a four-year barrage of lies.

If he caused you PTSD i think you have bigger problems tbh.

 

[matt9112]

Historians will look back and be able to calculate how may people were killed by the lure of Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Yet life goes on for humanity as a whole.

 

[Disney Experience]

Vaccine having an impact:

Covid: Israel's vaccine rollout linked to infection fall

Less than 0.1% of vaccinated people caught coronavirus, and far fewer became ill.

www.bbc.com

 

[Touchdown]

Vaccine having an impact:

Covid: Israel's vaccine rollout linked to infection fall

Less than 0.1% of vaccinated people caught coronavirus, and far fewer became ill.

www.bbc.com

Alternate Headlines:
-Vaccine does what we said it would do
-Study proven to be well powered to predict what would happen in the general population
-Told you so
-Was there any doubt? Get your shot!

 

[correcaminos]

Alternate Headlines:
-Vaccine does what we said it would do
-Study proven to be well powered to predict what would happen in the general population
-Told you so
-Was there any doubt? Get your shot!

By the way not laughing in a mean way. Just amused me knowing how crazy people are about not getting the shot (obviously excluding those with a medical reason not to)

 

[Touchdown]

By the way not laughing in a mean way. Just amused me knowing how crazy people are about not getting the shot (obviously excluding those with a medical reason not to)

I wouldn’t have thought so anyways, your views are well known if you follow this thread

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yet life goes on for humanity as a whole.

Not as a whole. There's 2 million less due to dying from COVID.

The lack of compassion is astounding.

 

[correcaminos]

I wouldn’t have thought so anyways, your views are well known if you follow this thread

I'm sure my views annoy some too I've said from the beginning though I believe in science which is why I joined the trial. That we have to do what we can to save lives. Still baffling how many people don't care or trust science

 

[Disney Experience]

Alternate Headlines:
-Vaccine does what we said it would do
-Study proven to be well powered to predict what would happen in the general population
-Told you so
-Was there any doubt? Get your shot!

All alternate headlines are true. But if you are trying to convince the unvaccinated to get vaccinated it is better to give the positive headlines vs condescending ones.

We have all been watching the numbers, expecting the positive results, predicting the positive results. Nice to see the validation in a small country as a whole which is much bigger sample than just the Phase 3 study population I am part of.

BTW, some vaccines which had no issues in a Phase 3 trial had serious issues that only came out when it was massively deployed.

Example: Sanofi/Pasteur dengue fever vaccine . Ask the country of Philippines how that turned out to the 4 million vaccinated. High rate (Compared to the unvaccinated) of severe Dengue Fever when the vaccinated acquired one of the "other" four variants of Dengue. This high rate did not occur if the people getting the fever had either never been vaccinated or been both been vaccinated and had Dengue Fever in the past..

So personally I am glad to see positive impact and results that might convince the hesitant to “Just get vaccinated”. Even if it is the expected outcome.

 

[Polkadotdress]

In Florida they are purposely directing some doses for under 65 but with serious comorbidities to hospitals. The reason they are not sending those doses to Publix or other pharmacies is that the Government in Florida did not want the Pharmacists to have to determine whether someone had a comorbidity warranting the limited shot allocations. Hospitals can determine it better than a pharmacist.

Florida Today news article:

That is an excellent, but very small start. It was a total of only 30K doses for the entire state, and our central FL area got 500 for the Advent Health hospitals and 2000 for the ORMC system. So, basically it covered some of the most high risk like organ transplant, but that's about all.

DeSantis Sets Aside 30K COVID Vaccines for Younger High-Risk Floridians

They will be used for people unde4r 65 with comorbidities.

www.mynews13.com

 

[correcaminos]

All alternate headlines are true. But if you are trying to convince the unvaccinated to get vaccinated it is better to give the positive headlines vs condescending ones.

We have all been watching the numbers, expecting the positive results, predicting the positive results. Nice to see the validation in a small country as a whole which is much bigger sample than just the Phase 3 study population I am part of.

BTW, some vaccines which had no issues in a Phase 3 trial had serious issues that only cane out when it was massively deployed.

Example: Sanofi/Pasteur dengue fever vaccine . Ask the country of Philippines how that turned out to the 4 million vaccinated. High rate of Servere Dengue on the four variants of Dengue not on the vaccine when someone is vaccinated but never had Dengue before.

So personally I am glad to see positive impact and results that might convince the hesitant to “Just get vaccinated”. Even if it is the expected outcome.

One could argue that the sample was not large enough in the trials to catch it too. But yes, the vaccine there did create a very sad result for some 600. It needs to be pointed out that criminal charges were filed on that one. There is a whole lot that went on with it that wasn't same levels of what usually happens.

 

[matt9112]

Not as a whole. There's 2 million less due to dying from COVID.

The lack of compassion is astounding.

It has nothing to do with compassion and more an understanding that its part of a pandemic...2 million less out of 7.8 billion that is 78 million to equate to 1% so the worst pandemic in our lifetime has removed somewhere around 0.2 percent of the population. I rounded....the point stands.

 

[Touchdown]

It has nothing to do with compassion and more an understanding that its part of a pandemic...2 million less out of 7.8 billion that is 78 million to equate to 1% so the worst pandemic in our lifetime has removed somewhere around 0.2 percent of the population. I rounded....the point stands.

How about all the hospitalized, permanently disabled, temporarily (months-years) disabled? How many times to we have to point out deaths are not the only negative outcome to you people?

 

[GoofGoof]

It has nothing to do with compassion and more an understanding that its part of a pandemic...2 million less out of 7.8 billion that is 78 million to equate to 1% so the worst pandemic in our lifetime has removed somewhere around 0.2 percent of the population. I rounded....the point stands.

We are approaching a number of American deaths from Covid that is almost at the level of all American combat deaths from every war in history combined. We have many monuments and a national holiday dedicated to remembering those lives lost in war and we should always remember those people. So while life has gone on for everyone who didn’t die in those wars it doesn’t make the loss of life any less tragic. So yes, life will go on after Covid, but for so many people who either lost their own life or a loved one it won’t be “no big deal” and certainly won’t be comforting to know that their loss is less than 1% of the worldwide population.

 

[Lilofan]

We are approaching a number of American deaths from Covid that is almost at the level of all American combat deaths from every war in history combined. We have many monuments and a national holiday dedicated to remembering those lives lost in war and we should always remember those people. So while life has gone on for everyone who didn’t die in those wars it doesn’t make the loss of life any less tragic. So yes, life will go on after Covid, but for so many people who either lost their own life or a loved one it won’t be “no big deal” and certainly won’t be comforting to know that their loss is less than 1% of the worldwide population.

There are speciality license plates one can buy at DMV . Some promote causes. I think there should be a Covid related cause license plate and funding this terrible illness from proceeds of the speciality plate.

 

[Bill in Atlanta]

You can’t claim a group is isolated when they are consistently having contact with persons who are not isolated.

Do you consider ICU patients with depleted immune systems "isolated"? The doctors & nurses who care for these folks have for decades been allowed to live normal lives outside of work.

Their dedication to proven hygiene methods inside the medical facility is what keeps those patients free of infection. This is what we should have tried to do for the highest-risk population.

We know that a person 75+ who has covid-19 is 33x more likely to die than a person under 75 who has covid-19.
The odds are similar for those 55+ with at least one comorbidity.
That is, and has always been, the highest-risk population.
From the start, our efforts should have reflected that reality.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Do you consider ICU patients with depleted immune systems "isolated"? The doctors & nurses who care for these folks have for decades been allowed to live normal lives outside of work.

Their dedication to proven hygiene methods inside the medical facility is what keeps those patients free of infection. This is what we should have tried to do for the highest-risk population.

We know that a person 75+ who has covid-19 is 33x more likely to die than a person under 75 who has covid-19.
The odds are similar for those 55+ with at least one comorbidity.
That is, and has always been, the highest-risk population.
From the start, our efforts should have reflected that reality.

The people in the ICU are already sick. It’s not the same as stopping spread outside of the ICU. They are also being cared for by people with years of training in procedures and equipment and the concerns were not universally about respiratory diseases that often do not cause symptoms. We’ve seen countless examples of one person infecting many others. SARS-CoV-2 is not like everything else. Assumptions about transmission proved wrong as it showed itself to be more transmissible. The best way to stop transmission is to not give the virus someplace to spread. Your concept of somehow partially isolating a huge chunk of the population, which in reality is what has been done, doesn’t prevent transmission.

 

[Bill in Atlanta]

In reference to your post about protecting the high risk as the solution, that’s not a plan, that’s a politically slanted talking point pushed by the “open everything now“ crowd.

If one of the political parties attached themselves to this idea for nefarious reasons, that's on them. What I have said about protecting the high risk is a common sense approach that we use daily in almost every other area of life.

In order for that plan to work you would have to isolate all of the high risk individuals and then have the government pay them to not work or leave their homes. For high risk individuals who live in multi-generational homes or in homes with children or spouses who are not high risk it would mean creating some form of housing to send those people to. In a simple example a father of 3 is high risk for medical reasons so has to be isolated. He would need to either require his wife and 3 kids to also isolate (no work for the wife, no school for the kids) and lock their home down or he would have to go live in a temporary location established for isolating the high risk like a hotel or a dorm.

The next problem is how do you replace those workers in the very economy you want to protect? There are over 10M active workers in the 65+ demographic in addition to well over 100M Americans 64 and under with medical conditions that put them at high risk for Covid. If Even half those workers could be shifted to remote work that still leaves a massive 50M+ workers who cannot work due to required isolation. That’s way more of an impact to the economy than the jobs furloughed and lost due to Covid restrictions. All of those people would need to be made whole by the government so trillions more in cost than what was spent. That also doesn’t factor in the emotional impact of telling millions of Americans they need to isolate themselves for a year+ and potentially either not see their spouses and kids or subject them to the same isolation.

The other issue is the isolate the high risk plan also doesn’t guarantee the economy isn’t still in ruins. The punch line of the theory is while the elderly are locked away the rest of the country goes about business as usual. That’s not likely to have happened. Take FL as a good example. Since Sept there have been no statewide restrictions on businesses yet restaurants, bars, theme parks and hotels are all suffering greatly. Removing government restrictions isn’t a magic pill to return the economy to normal. Lots of people are just not going to fully participate in the economy while cases surge.

What would be an interesting study would be how well did businesses due when cases were low vs when they spiked. I would assume there’s some uptick in business in a lower case environment. In other words if we all did our part (including the government) and we followed through on testing and tracing and kept cases more controlled would the economy have done better? In places like Australia and New Zealand that certainly seems to be the case. Even parts of Europe that had a lull in cases this past summer had a better economic boom than what we experienced here. In other words the biggest negative to the economy wasn’t businesses that were closed by the government it was a lack of control of Covid cases.

Don't misunderstand - I have never said any solution would be a cure-all. The moment the first covid-19 particle infected the first person in Wuhan China, there was going to be great suffering and death. Some from the virus, some from the reaction to the virus. Some still from the long term ripple effect of both.

We were basically put into the driver's seat going 65 mph headed for an embankment. We had to swerve one direction or the other; either way there was going to be damage.

You and I have had some good discussions here. But let me ask you this. If someone came to you and said "We should make the lockdowns permanent; it would save more lives", how would you respond? And what reasons would you give?