Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DCBaker]

"Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to offer their Covid-19 vaccine to any clinical trial volunteer who received placebo by March 1, several months earlier than initially planned."

"Pfizer and BioNTech revealed the decision on a website for clinical trial participants and in a letter, obtained by STAT, that was sent to researchers conducting the clinical trial.

The letter to researchers indicated they are also asking participants to take additional Covid tests, to be conducted by clinical trial volunteers at home, to help understand whether the vaccine, which reduces symptomatic infections by 95%, also prevents asymptomatic infection. The answer to that question is important; currently, there is no way to know whether people who received the vaccine can still transmit it to others."

"Pfizer was apparently already working to make its plan for crossover more like Moderna’s. New language posted on its website for trial participants on New Year’s Eve stated that vaccine doses had been secured, and that it and BioNTech aimed for all participants who received the placebo to have the opportunity to get their first dose of the vaccine by March 1, if they choose to.

A letter from Nicholas Kitchin, a senior director in Pfizer’s vaccine clinical research and development group, struck a cheerful tone for a clinical document."

“We recognize that our clinical trial participants are selfless volunteers who have made the important choice to make a difference and fight this pandemic,” Kitchin wrote.

“While the study continues to be blinded to answer important public health questions such as persistence of protection, longer term safety and protection from asymptomatic infections, we are committed to ensuring that our trial participants are recognized for their contributions and that placebo recipients who wish to can receive BNT162b2 within the study.”

Pfizer and BioNTech speed up timeline for offering Covid-19 vaccine to placebo volunteers

Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to start offering their Covid-19 vaccine to clinical trial volunteers who received placebo several months earlier than initially planned.

www.statnews.com

Here is the link with more information from the study website -

Thank You for Making a Difference | Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine Study

We are grateful to the tens of thousands of courageous people who chose to volunteer for the COVID-19 Vaccine Study.

www.covidvaccinestudy.com

 

[Miss Bella]

Many of the young were soldiers living together in close quarters, which we know is where the disease spreads most rapidly. The very young and very old (1918 65+ was more akin to 2020 85+) were still the groups with the highest mortality.

So we can protect the younger population by keeping them out of close density living situations as much as possible. Another factor of this time was that households were much larger, and more multi-generational, than today. So a 1918 household's immediate family could exceed today's gathering guidelines. Add in the wealthier (or even more solidly middle class) population, with servants from poorer, more crowded living conditions, and it is easy to see how rapidly the disease spread.

My neighbor (now deceased) lived through the 1918 Pandemic, and her middle class family had "day help" for cleaning and cooking. Just a couple of decades prior to my purchasing my home previous owners had a maid and chauffeur who lived in the little apartment above my garage - which I renovated and use as a guest room - but it could be rented as studio apartment in the future.

So the average family was in close contact with many people even in their home.

My neighbor also spoke about seeing someone at church (they did not close churches) on Sunday and attending their funeral (again, people still had funerals) on Wednesday. With no treatment - such as respirators, IVS, etc, people either got better or died. Rapidly.

Our current mortality rate would be so much higher if we didn't have more advanced medical treatment.

Our mortality rate would be a lot lower if people were just more healthy in general. Medicine can only do so much and too many people are dependent on it.
I never really thought about it before, but guess we all have relatives that lived thru the 1918 pandemic or we wouldn't be here. I'm sure we all have some that died too. I've never had the inclination to research my family tree, but maybe in the future I will.

 

[Stitch826]

Our mortality rate would be a lot lower if people were just more healthy in general. Medicine can only do so much and too many people are dependent on it.
I never really thought about it before, but guess we all have relatives that lived thru the 1918 pandemic or we wouldn't be here. I'm sure we all have some that died too. I've never had the inclination to research my family tree, but maybe in the future I will.

THIS. Throughout this pandemic, there seem to have been three main groups of people most affected by COVID: the elderly, those with a weakened immune system, and the obese. When you have a country that continues to cut physical activity from schools (recess) and places iPads and other technology devices in children’s hands before they can even walk, these are the consequences. I of course am speaking in general terms and realize there are always exceptions. Rather than going outside and having physical activity, kids (and adults) sit indoors looking at screens. Fast food is more prevalent than ever before, even more so now with delivery services like Doordash. How many of America’s COVID deaths are linked to obesity? People constantly mention America’s high number of deaths in comparison to other countries, but seem to not make the connection that Americans as a whole live less healthy lifestyles.

 

[Miss Bella]

THIS. Throughout this pandemic, there seem to have been three main groups of people most affected by COVID: the elderly, those with a weakened immune system, and the obese. When you have a country that continues to cut physical activity from schools (recess) and places iPads and other technology devices in children’s hands before they can even walk, these are the consequences. I of course am speaking in general terms and realize there are always exceptions. Rather than going outside and having physical activity, kids (and adults) sit indoors looking at screens. Fast food is more prevalent than ever before, even more so now with delivery services like Doordash. How many of America’s COVID deaths are linked to obesity? People constantly mention America’s high number of deaths in comparison to other countries, but seem to not make the connection that Americans as a whole live less healthy lifestyles.

I've spent the last month on a ICU covid unit and I would say about 80- 90% are morbidly obese. It's not the obese according to the weight charts. A lot of people fall into that category. It's the really obese. It takes a lot of man power to prone these people. We usually go in groups of six.

It's also the old with underlying conditions. COPD, Cancer, Diabetes, end stage renal disease....etc etc. Of course there's always the exception. I had a 60 year old mildly overweight man with no history of anything. I expect him to end up on a ventilator within the next couple of days. Once in every blue moon you see a person under the age of 40 in the ICU. I work in a hospital that two weeks was in the top three for Covid cases in the US. About 95% of our patients on the Covid unit are Hispanic. All that being said most patients don't end up in ICU. They recover and go home.

Everything you said is basically true, but there is also the anti- fat shaming movement. We went from the anorexic 80's to the fat is beautiful 2000's. Don't you dare tell a women she needs to lose a few pounds. I totally get that, but there are significant health risks to being overweight.

I think the statistics from 2018 show that 40% of the US population is obese. Of course that varies from state to state, but we really need to get this under control.

It's funny you mention Door Dash. One of the RT's said to me to me "if we learned anything this year you would think it would be to lose weight, but I order from Door Dash every night and I've put on 5 pounds". I'm guilty of that too. I love the convenience.

 

[Stitch826]

I've spent the last month on a ICU covid unit and I would say about 80- 90% are morbidly obese. It's not the obese according to the weight charts. A lot of people fall into that category. It's the really obese. It takes a lot of man power to prone these people. We usually go in groups of six.

It's also the old with underlying conditions. COPD, Cancer, Diabetes, end stage renal disease....etc etc. Of course there's always the exception. I had a 60 year old mildly overweight man with no history of anything. I expect him to end up on a ventilator within the next couple of days. Once in every blue moon you see a person under the age of 40 in the ICU. I work in a hospital that two weeks was in the top three for Covid cases in the US. About 95% of our patients on the Covid unit are Hispanic. All that being said most patients don't end up in ICU. They recover and go home.

Everything you said is basically true, but there is also the anti- fat shaming movement. We went from the anorexic 80's to the fat is beautiful 2000's. Don't you dare tell a women she needs to lose a few pounds. I totally get that, but there are significant health risks to being overweight.

I think the statistics from 2018 show that 40% of the US population is obese. Of course that varies from state to state, but we really need to get this under control.

It's funny you mention Door Dash. One of the RT's said to me to me "if we learned anything this year you would think it would be to lose weight, but I order from Door Dash every night and I've put on 5 pounds". I'm guilty of that too. I love the convenience.

Seeing as how the “fat is beautiful” movement really has recently just taken off (Lizzo, Cardi B, Megan the Stallion <spelling?> just to name a few...), it looks like the obesity problem in this country could get worse before it improves.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Me coming into this thread after not being around for a few days

 

[oceanbreeze77]

The latest over here as of just now is that the new variant can add up to 0.7 to the R number.

That is what was on the morning news here. 70% more transmissible

And again I say, this all has a very January 2020 feel to it.

 

[Lilofan]

Seeing as how the “fat is beautiful” movement really has recently just taken off (Lizzo, Cardi B, Megan the Stallion <spelling?> just to name a few...), it looks like the obesity problem in this country could get worse before it improves.

DAK had a weight limit for guests in the Safari Ride private tour to include walking on a suspended bridge. The weight limit for each guest was 300lb.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Picked this to reply, but there’s at least a dozen other posts that hit the same trend. There’s a fixation on lockdown or restrictions vs nothing. As if the only solutions were for everyone to isolate and wait on a vaccine or rampant COVID spread. This is a total failure of national leadership and policy, along with news media reporting accepting this narrative.

The restrictions we're doing are unsustainable long term. The entire point 9 months ago was for them to be temporary, provide a pause in infection spread and allow other mitigation controls to be implemented. Instead, we stopped, called them good enough, and didn’t do any of those things in a coordinated meaningful way.

The fact that we're still debating if the band aid solutions should continue or not just highlights the utter failure of our response.

Sure, when a band aid is all we have, we should keep doing it. But the real anger is about why that’s all we have as a response. Coupled with that because we gave up, even the band aid isn’t implemented correctly.

This one really should end the discussion. It’s basically the historic record...whether anyone has an “opinion”’on it or not.

I looked through the Broward County orders from March and I can't find one that talks about a "lockdown". The closest I found was 20-03 which only says "Individuals are strongly urged to remain home other than to engage in essential activities". Maybe I am missing the one you are referring to.

You didn’t really have to “prove” it...it didn’t pass the sniff test. But you did anyway as usual

Upon research, it wasn't a Broward County order. All of the municipalities in Broward County got together and made essentially the same order together but at the municipal level instead of county level.

Here are two of them:

https://www.fortlauderdale.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=45808
https://www.davie-fl.gov/DocumentCenter/View/11257/TOD-EO-2020-02-Safer-at-Home-Order

They state:

"Each resident ... is hereby ordered to stay home and within the entirety of their owned or rented property. The order to stay at home does not require residents to confine themselves to the interior of their homes. Residents may make use of all exterior portions of their homes such as patios, porches, yards, and drieveways." Then they list the essential activities for which you are permitted to leave your property.

These were enforceable lockdown orders and not suggestions.

Misfired on bluster there, huh Ace? I’m shocked.

Look up Europe. And we’re mostly taking it seriously. God help the United States if the variants become prolific over there.

We’re begging for it. We’re so stupid that we can’t agree on computer tabulated math verified 3 times at this point...how are we not gonna screw up germs more?

If we don’t have another disastrous turn in the health crisis in los estados unidos...it will be due to blind, DUMB luck...nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And again I say, this all has a very January 2020 feel to it.

It’s just a feather in the cap of the biggest loser in the history of losing.

It was always gonna be this way given the variables.

 

[correcaminos]

"Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to offer their Covid-19 vaccine to any clinical trial volunteer who received placebo by March 1, several months earlier than initially planned."

"Pfizer and BioNTech revealed the decision on a website for clinical trial participants and in a letter, obtained by STAT, that was sent to researchers conducting the clinical trial.

The letter to researchers indicated they are also asking participants to take additional Covid tests, to be conducted by clinical trial volunteers at home, to help understand whether the vaccine, which reduces symptomatic infections by 95%, also prevents asymptomatic infection. The answer to that question is important; currently, there is no way to know whether people who received the vaccine can still transmit it to others."

"Pfizer was apparently already working to make its plan for crossover more like Moderna’s. New language posted on its website for trial participants on New Year’s Eve stated that vaccine doses had been secured, and that it and BioNTech aimed for all participants who received the placebo to have the opportunity to get their first dose of the vaccine by March 1, if they choose to.

A letter from Nicholas Kitchin, a senior director in Pfizer’s vaccine clinical research and development group, struck a cheerful tone for a clinical document."

“We recognize that our clinical trial participants are selfless volunteers who have made the important choice to make a difference and fight this pandemic,” Kitchin wrote.

“While the study continues to be blinded to answer important public health questions such as persistence of protection, longer term safety and protection from asymptomatic infections, we are committed to ensuring that our trial participants are recognized for their contributions and that placebo recipients who wish to can receive BNT162b2 within the study.”

Pfizer and BioNTech speed up timeline for offering Covid-19 vaccine to placebo volunteers

Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to start offering their Covid-19 vaccine to clinical trial volunteers who received placebo several months earlier than initially planned.

www.statnews.com

Here is the link with more information from the study website -

Thank You for Making a Difference | Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine Study

We are grateful to the tens of thousands of courageous people who chose to volunteer for the COVID-19 Vaccine Study.

www.covidvaccinestudy.com

Interesting. No news of that here from my trial, but it is a holiday weekend. Will update when I hear officially from mine. I was already going in mid-March for my 4th visit though. This would just move up a timeline if a placebo was given. The idea of doing the covid test at home is not something I wanted to do though. My covid test is safely kept away in hope I never have to stick myself up my nose with it!

 

[Incomudro]

Our mortality rate would be a lot lower if people were just more healthy in general. Medicine can only do so much and too many people are dependent on it.
I never really thought about it before, but guess we all have relatives that lived thru the 1918 pandemic or we wouldn't be here. I'm sure we all have some that died too. I've never had the inclination to research my family tree, but maybe in the future I will.

It's kind of the American way to take little to no care of one's body for most of a person's life, then rely on medicine to save us when the inevitable problems arise.

 

[DisneyCane]

Upon research, it wasn't a Broward County order. All of the municipalities in Broward County got together and made essentially the same order together but at the municipal level instead of county level.

Here are two of them:

https://www.fortlauderdale.gov/home/showpublisheddocument?id=45808
https://www.davie-fl.gov/DocumentCenter/View/11257/TOD-EO-2020-02-Safer-at-Home-Order

They state:

"Each resident ... is hereby ordered to stay home and within the entirety of their owned or rented property. The order to stay at home does not require residents to confine themselves to the interior of their homes. Residents may make use of all exterior portions of their homes such as patios, porches, yards, and drieveways." Then they list the essential activities for which you are permitted to leave your property.

These were enforceable lockdown orders and not suggestions.

Misfired on bluster there, huh Ace? I’m shocked.

Oh wise one, please explain to me the difference between a County order and every single municipality in the county making the same order simultaneously? Broward County (outside of the Everglades and maybe some remaining agriculture) has very little unincorporated land area. I don't know what I said was "bluster" but I didn't misfire on anything. There was a lockdown order in all of the municipalities of Broward County, Florida and it was threatened to be enforced with the power of arrest.

 

[Disney Experience]

Interesting. No news of that here from my trial, but it is a holiday weekend. Will update when I hear officially from mine. I was already going in mid-March for my 4th visit though. This would just move up a timeline if a placebo was given. The idea of doing the covid test at home is not something I wanted to do though. My covid test is safely kept away in hope I never have to stick myself up my nose with it!

I got a letter from the research site I got the Pfizer shot last week. It just said ehat I already knew. But that letter was sent before the updated Pfizer position a prior person posted. I eill see if I get an updated letter too. My 6 month visit is in the first days if April, I pushed it out to get it closer to my wife’s next Moderna visit. But will still have to go on two different dates, her visit could not be moved any closer to mine because of protocol. Just a few days separate the visit, but she was getting shots later thsn me.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh wise one, please explain to me the difference between a County order and every single municipality in the county making the same order simultaneously? Broward County (outside of the Everglades and maybe some remaining agriculture) has very little unincorporated land area. I don't know what I said was "bluster" but I didn't misfire on anything. There was a lockdown order in all of the municipalities of Broward County, Florida and it was threatened to be enforced with the power of arrest.

Why bother...you’ll still reset and try to fit whatever into your inaccurate health assessments.

How’s Florida today? Still got it figure out?

Yep...knocking it out of the park

 

[Disney Experience]

I posted earlier that my 90 year old father in California was tested positive for covid twice. The second results reported to him on Christmas day.

He was asymptomatic and remained asymptomatic throughout the quarantine period. He is now out of quarantine. This is good news.

 

[correcaminos]

I got a letter from the research site I got the Pfizer shot last week. It just said ehat I already knew. But that letter was sent before the updated Pfizer position a prior person posted. I eill see if I get an updated letter too. My 6 month visit is in the first days if April, I pushed it out to get it closer to my wife’s next Miderna visit. But eill still have to gi on two different dates, her visit could not be moved any closer to mine because of protocol. Just a few days separate the visit, but dhe was getting shots later thsn me.

I got one letter with the 4th visit update on the 15th of December. Actually got it before I saw it updated on the news sites. My place really seems on top of it. I was only given a 2 week slot for the 4th visit. I might be out of town for one or at least my kid will be on spring break. They are on the other side of the city so at least a 1.5 hour trip. Kid is just a teen now and can handle that but with delays and waits I knew it could run longer so would rather be during a time when we are supposed to have school. But I am not sure I could move it much more but it's now 2.5 months out only

 

[DisneyCane]

Why bother...you’ll still reset and try to fit whatever into your inaccurate health assessments.

How’s Florida today? Still got it figure out?

Yep...knocking it out of the park

There's nothing to "figure out." Either you put in severe restrictions that take away people's freedoms and significantly reduce the spread while the restrictions are in place or you give people information and let them decide what they want to do to protect themselves. Also, if you show your data per capita, you'll find that your great state of NJ has over twice the deaths per capita as FL and FL is #20 and a hair below national average despite a population that skews elderly and a governor that is apparently incompetent and trying to kill as many people as possible (according to some on here).

Your debate style is impressive. Just keep changing the subject and speaking in riddles.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were *217 new reported deaths, along with 3 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

*This covers the past 2 days. The graphs below cover 12/31 and 1/1.

Apologies if the format is off here - working on mobile - will fix later.

 

[Jrb1979]

There's nothing to "figure out." Either you put in severe restrictions that take away people's freedoms and significantly reduce the spread while the restrictions are in place or you give people information and let them decide what they want to do to protect themselves. Also, if you show your data per capita, you'll find that your great state of NJ has over twice the deaths per capita as FL and FL is #20 and a hair below national average despite a population that skews elderly and a governor that is apparently incompetent and trying to kill as many people as possible (according to some on here).

Your debate style is impressive. Just keep changing the subject and speaking in riddles.

Or you do what we did in Ontario Canada. You put in severe restrictions but compensate businesses that are affected. Cover 75% of wages and 65% of rent.