Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

Your missing my point a bit. Not debating how we responded, merely stating that it will be interesting to see, after we're past this, how history paints our response in the decades and centuries to come.

But to comment on your response, telling the most at risk to be extremely cautious would have been one way. Imagine taking 1.5 trillion dollars and creating the infrastructure and organizations to safely deliver food and essentials to the most at risk. Setting up things to keep their quality of life high while keeping them safe. As opposed to spending three trillion dollars to keep shuttered businesses and people that now can't work able to pay bills and buy food.

I'm not saying our response was good or bad, we've never been in this situation before. But as someone who studies economics and the financial markets, I'm very curious to see how our responses are looked at in the years to come and the long term effects they've had.

You say this as if there have not been prior pandemics and epidemics. There have been and testing would be the big, new novel aspect of how places responded.

 

[danlb_2000]

Royal Caribbean preparing to do some test cruises:

Thousands volunteer for CDC-ordered ‘test’ cruises

Tens of thousands of cruise enthusiasts have offered to volunteer for “test voyages” that the cruise lines have been ordered to run before they’ll be allowed to resume operations …

www.sun-sentinel.com

 

[danlb_2000]

Hospitalizations are just exploding

And there is every reason to think Thanksgiving will make things worse. I dread to see where we are at by the middle of December.

 

[Parker in NYC]

And yet millions will comply out of fear.

Back to my original point, the study of our response, and to your point the various responses from the general public, will be fascinating and taking place long into the future. I'm curious how history will judge us.

I don't care about history's decision. I care about what we're actually doing now. You're not curious about how history will judge us, you've already determined we've screwed up and can't wait for history to align with your thinking. Or am I being presumptuous?

 

[Figgy1]

Ah yes, installing insulation, that’s magical... be sure to wear long sleeves as well as long pants. You don’t want any of that on your skin! Very itchy!

THNX I know the drill but it will be well worth it. I go to Disney in summer and wear a shawl in the morning so every bit of insulation helps

 

[Figgy1]

In my case, I took the opportunity to pursue some training I had been wanting to do but never found the time for. In the long run, it may actually work out for the better... but I’m lucky I have had the resources and support (including CARES act and unemployment) to do that. Many have had to scramble just to keep food on the table.

I'm glad it worked out for you

 

[Figgy1]

GoofGoof, you win the MONTH.

FTFY

 

[GoofGoof]

Really? "Close non essential businesses and skip Thanksgiving and Christmas. Wear a mask in your house if you have a guest over. Close playgrounds, etc. etc. etc." Let's not forget about Disneyland being forced to stay closed.

You don't view those as controlling what the population can do, how they can work, how their kids can learn? And those are not based on fear of spreading the virus?

You also aren’t allowed to play with a hand grenade in a crowded mall. It’s protecting people from themselves and each other.

I am not happy my kid’s school is shutting down again, but I don’t blame the school district or the county I blame the selfish who had Halloween parties and people who refused to follow simple guidelines. If people really cared about schools being open and kids education (like they say they do) they would be doing everything they could to slow cases and spread to keep them open. Instead we get this.

As far as Thanksgiving, don’t do it. People need to be told that because if they aren’t they will go through with it anyway. Some people won’t follow the recommendation and will get together anyway. My cousin who is 31 with no pre-existing conditions is in a hospital on a ventilator right now. One day he was fine and the next day sick and 3 days later on a ventilator. If he got sick 2 weeks later and attended Thanksgiving dinner he very well could have infected the whole family. It’s really sad and stressful that he’s that sick (he is stable and on the same treatment Trump got) but it would be way worse if he had gotten elderly relatives sick too. It’s just not worth it, but too many people have convinced themselves it won’t happen to them. It does happen to some people.

 

[danlb_2000]

You also aren’t allowed to play with a hand grenade in a crowded mall. It’s protecting people from themselves and each other.

I am not happy my kid’s school is shutting down again, but I don’t blame the school district or the county I blame the selfish ******** who had Halloween parties and people who refused to follow simple guidelines. If people really cared about schools being open and kids education (like they say they do) they would be doing everything they could to slow cases and spread to keep them open. Instead we get this.

As far as Thanksgiving, don’t do it. People need to be told that because if they aren’t they will go through with it anyway. Some people won’t follow the recommendation and will get together anyway. My cousin who is 31 with no pre-existing conditions is in a hospital on a ventilator right now. One day he was fine and the next day sick and 3 days later on a ventilator. If he got sick 2 weeks later and attended Thanksgiving dinner he very well could have infected the whole family. It’s really sad and stressful that he’s that sick (he is stable and on the same treatment Trump got) but it would be way worse if he had gotten elderly relatives sick too. It’s just not worth it, but too many people have convinced themselves it won’t happen to them. It does happen to some people.

People are going to die as a result of getting together with family for Thanksgiving, it's only a question of how many.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Not having an ICU available if you or your family or your friends need it should be something to be fearful of, @Dan Deesnee.

Even being afraid that someone you don't know won't have an ICU available should be scary if one has any compassion, @Dan Deesnee.

Right now, Republican governors who swore up and down that they weren't going to do lockdowns or mask mandates are issuing mask mandates and restricting business and social activities. What do you think of that, @Dan Deesnee? Are these Republican governors just giving into unfounded fear just because the hospitals in their state are at their capacity and soon they'll have people dying in the hallways because there are no ICUs for them?

You're the outlier here, @Dan Deesnee. And your only refrain, which you've posted over and over and over and over and over and over again is that this is just an unreasonable fear response.

Here's what reasonable people are responding to:
View attachment 513910

Are you going to claim that these deaths and hospitalizations are hoaxes? People faking they need a respirator? Tens of thousands healthcare workers and the whole world in on the hoax, @Dan Deesnee?

If you're wonder why I keep using your name, I want everyone to remember your position on this and who you are so that whenever you post on this forum, we'll all remember you think this is just people overreacting.

You are not living in reality, @Dan Deesnee, and the "it's just fear mongering" may work in the crazy land of right wing media and Qanon, but as more and more people know someone dead or hospitalized from COVID, they'll know you and your dismissal of pain and death for what it is.

This says it all. Thank you for putting it so succinctly (as is your usual practice).

 

[Patcheslee]

Not having an ICU available if you or your family or your friends need it should be something to be fearful of, @Dan Deesnee.

Live in Jackson County Indiana. Schneck Memorial is officially at capacity for critical care. Next closest hospital is about 23 miles away, that's when minutes could mean a life. And combine that with Interstate construction and daily wrecks on that stretch it's only a matter of time it impacts someone. I don't even like to think about what would happen if my husband has an asthma attack his rescue inhaler won't work for.

 

[danlb_2000]

Your missing my point a bit. Not debating how we responded, merely stating that it will be interesting to see, after we're past this, how history paints our response in the decades and centuries to come.

But to comment on your response, telling the most at risk to be extremely cautious would have been one way. Imagine taking 1.5 trillion dollars and creating the infrastructure and organizations to safely deliver food and essentials to the most at risk. Setting up things to keep their quality of life high while keeping them safe. As opposed to spending three trillion dollars to keep shuttered businesses and people that now can't work able to pay bills and buy food.

I'm not saying our response was good or bad, we've never been in this situation before. But as someone who studies economics and the financial markets, I'm very curious to see how our responses are looked at in the years to come and the long term effects they've had.

But who goes into the "most at risk" bucket? Around 50% of the US population has one or more pre-existing conditions that put them at more risk of being seriously impacted by the virus. Even just looking at age, we know older people are at risk, but so far there have been around 39,000 deaths in the 45-63 age range. So if we try to isolate everyone from 45 on up, that is a huge part of the population. It's also impossible to completely isolate the at-risk from the not-at-risk, they have to come into contact with each other at some point and the more the virus is allowed to spread amongst the not-at-risk the greater the chance they carry it to the at-risk.

 

[_caleb]

Yes we can discuss the difference of getting paid to stay home or getting paid to work and its effects on people.

Getting paid to stay home sounds great, and our government can simply print money to pay folks.

I have never had the opportunity to get paid to stay home and I am keeping an open mind about it.

But yes, we can simply pay folks to stay home ...

“Paying people to stay home” is one option. There are other options, like revised work schedules, temporary work assignments, and secondment to public heath efforts, such as contact tracing, manning COVID testing facilities, enforcing business compliance with public health mandates, etc. Lots of essential work to be done!

 

[SamusAranX]

Outside of Disneyland, I don't see a lot of non-essential businesses closed right now. And the general response I've seen to the recommendations for Thanksgiving/Christmas/masks (from people promoting the government fear-mongering idea) has been "screw that".

Wonderful. So glad I don’t celebrate, extra more so this year.

 

[drizgirl]

“Paying people to stay home” is one option. There are other options, like revised work schedules, temporary work assignments, and secondment to public heath efforts, such as contact tracing, manning COVID testing facilities, enforcing business compliance with public health mandates, etc. Lots of essential work to be done!

What are the odds any of that is actually going to happen? You're talking in very unlikely hypotheticals. People are living and dealing with reality. Some states have a max unemployment below $300/week. And the enhanced unemployment is long gone in a blaze of electoral posturing. I'd be shocked if anyone passes anything in the lame duck either. They must think people (8 months into a pandemic) have piles of cash to rely on to tide them over.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I would say "fear" is both a rational and appropriate response to an existential threat like we now face.

 

[_caleb]

PSA: Cancelling Thanksgiving dinner gatherings is not the same as “don’t celebrate Thanksgiving” or “don’t be thankful.” Same with Christmas, which all Americans are still free to celebrate, just in a fashion modified to protect people from risk of exposure and slow the spread of the virus. These things may need to be modified and restricted, but they are not cancelable!

 

[MisterPenguin]

For people with a Christian faith, Easter is supposed to be the most high holy day of them all. And we canceled that.

A day for simply giving thanks would seem to be lower on the things we can do without, as much as it would hurt in the feels.

This even might wind up to be...

 

[_caleb]

What are the odds any of that is actually going to happen? You're talking in very unlikely hypotheticals. People are living and dealing with reality. Some states have a max unemployment below $300/week. And the enhanced unemployment is long gone in a blaze of electoral posturing. I'd be shocked if anyone passes anything in the lame duck either. They must think people (8 months into a pandemic) have piles of cash to rely on to tide them over.

If the people who are fighting against public health measures put their efforts instead into petitioning their State and local officials to provide for those who have been disproportionately affected by the threat of the virus, things might look a little different.

I agree that all the action early on was just political posturing. Now that the election has passed, nothing is being done to provide support or assistance.

But look at the lengths Disney has gone to in order to reopen the parks. If they cared about their CMs more than they cared about revenue, they could have kept them as employees (even furloughed) and put a lot more effort into lobbying for extensions of the PPP (or any of the other options I mentioned).

This isn’t wild idealism, it‘s just compassion, solidarity, creativity, and leadership—things that seem to be in short supply these days.

 

[_caleb]

For people with a Christian faith, Easter is supposed to be the most high holy day of them all. And we canceled that.

A day for simply giving thanks would seem to be lower on the things we can do without, as much as it would hurt in the feels.

This even might wind up to be...

Silly @MisterPenguin, Easter wasn’t cancelled! We just celebrated it differently this year.