Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

The thing is that we elect the government. So mandates are enacted with the consent of the governed.

But I have a right to be tracked! How dare one elected person mandate privacy!

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m not comparing it to the flu.

Smoking is a choice, and its effects are directly associated WHEN it is deliberately chosen. I’m not disputing the effects of smoking.

My argument is that people can decide whether or not to enter or participate in an activity, subject to the risk of contracting covid.

I hear what you are saying but you are only considering your own risk of contracting Covid. The Covid restrictions are not just to keep you healthy but also to keep you from infecting others. If there was a guarantee that when you got infected we’d know right away and you would be the only one impacted I’d agree that it’s your place to decide if you want to take that personal risk or not. Unfortunately with asymptomatic spread that’s not the case so your actions are being limited to protect others and for the greater good.

 

[sullyinMT]

The thing is that we elect the government. So mandates are enacted with the consent of the governed.

More so once they’re upheld by the courts.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

The thing is that we elect the government. So mandates are enacted with the consent of the governed.

I’d like you to ask the citizens of NC and CA what they think.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

I hear what you are saying but you are only considering your own risk of contracting Covid. The Covid restrictions are not just to keep you healthy but also to keep you from infecting others. If there was a guarantee that when you got infected we’d know right away and you would be the only one impacted I’d agree that it’s your place to decide if you want to take that personal risk or not. Unfortunately with asymptomatic spread that’s not the case so your actions are being limited to protect others and for the greater good.

And the only way to know that would be through testing...rapid or daily testing, at the minimum.

 

[MaryJaneP]

I’m saying your argument should be applied to both cold and four season, as well.

btw, just because it’s government mandated, doesn’t make it legal.

or even doesn't make it common sense if you are among those who think this is a hoax, deny the +230K deaths, and refuse to do any mitigation efforts. Does the same apply to drunk driving or rufies or seatbelts?

 

[GoofGoof]

And the only way to know that would be through testing...rapid or daily testing, at the minimum.

Know what. Asymptomatic spread? Is that in dispute now too? I can’t keep up on what’s fake news anymore.

 

[_caleb]

I’m saying at this point, nothing is going to satisfy the lowering of restrictions. By the time anything is gained, a new strain shows up and scares everyone.

I was making a point, on the second part, that with kids not being in school, they won’t be able to put a sentence together...especially, if schools stay closed till this passes.

In the original reopening plan, there were metrics that, when met, would trigger the relaxing of restrictions. I’m not sure about every state, but Florida did not wait until those metrics were achieved before moving into subsequent phases of reopening.

You’re worried about the government infringing on your rights/liberties. I’m hoping the government will intervene to prevent you from infringing on mine.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

In the original reopening plan, there were metrics that, when met, would trigger the relaxing of restrictions. I’m not sure about every state, but Florida did not wait until those metrics were achieved before moving into subsequent phases of reopening.

You’re worried about the government infringing on your rights/liberties. I’m hoping the government will intervene to prevent you from infringing on mine.

And I can respect that...no one’s rights are more important than any others.

 

[SamusAranX]

When were cold and flu the third leading cause of death?

cold, never. Flu is usually on top 10 every year

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Where are you getting the idea that WDW’s COVID protocols have been “proven to work?” How many people have contracted COVID at the parks/Disney Springs since they reopened?

I can’t show evidence for WDW but Wynn Las Vegas randomly tests their employees and publicly reports the results, in the first 100 days they were open they performed over 15,000 tests, they had 548 cases (3.6% positivity rate), and unfortunately had 3 deaths (.02% mortality rate). They have very similar guidelines to Disney (temp screen before entrance, mask mandate, social distancing, plexiglass, etc) but are indoors in a casino that allows drinking and smoking (as long as you are stationary) so mask use is likely less enforced than Disney.

At the time of the report they had had over 500,000 guests and had 6 guest cases linked back to them.

I’d expect WDW to have better results since they have hundreds of acres of primarily outdoor space vs several hundred thousand square feet of casino space.

As someone who lives and works in Las Vegas I have no hesitation going to WDW in a few weeks, if the guidelines can work here in indoor spaces I have no doubt WDW is as safe as anyplace else in the country right now, likely much safer.

 

[Chi84]

I’d like you to ask the citizens of NC and CA what they think.

That’s not how government works. We elect representatives and give them the authority to enact laws that apply to everyone. It’s not up to what individuals “think.”

 

[_caleb]

I can’t show evidence for WDW but Wynn Las Vegas randomly tests their employees and publicly reports the results, in the first 100 days they were open they performed over 15,000 tests, they had 548 cases (3.6% positivity rate), and unfortunately had 3 deaths (.02% mortality rate). They have very similar guidelines to Disney (temp screen before entrance, mask mandate, social distancing, plexiglass, etc) but are indoors in a casino that allows drinking and smoking (as long as you are stationary) so mask use is likely less enforced than Disney.

At the time of the report they had had over 500,000 guests and had 6 guest cases linked back to them.

I’d expect WDW to have better results since they have hundreds of acres of primarily outdoor space vs several hundred thousand square feet of casino space.

As someone who lives and works in Las Vegas I have no hesitation going to WDW in a few weeks, if the guidelines can work here in indoor spaces I have no doubt WDW is as safe as anyplace else in the country right now, likely much safer.

Hmm. I read that Casinos were frequently mentioned to contact tracers as possible exposure sites. Maybe the Las Vegas Review-Journal isn’t a reliable source?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is a fair assessment although part of the problem with the people doing stuff with no masks, distancing or sanitation is a lot of them still don’t get Covid which then just makes people more likely to avoid taking precautions. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve heard say things like “we did XYZ and nobody got sick so I think it’s fine to do”. It’s sorta like Russian roulette where you may play for a while and get the empty chamber but eventually you lose.

The fight for “individual choice” is such a tail chasing exercise. In case anyone didn’t notice: we did that starting May 1...it’s been a failure.

 

[SamusAranX]

That‘s not true, but another convenient excuse. Amazing how something that is “widespread” somehow occurs without reason or evidence.

Top 10 is not third. Even then we have surpassed multiple very bad flu years. You’re looking at the past six years of flu to get an equivalent number and that includes two very bad seasons.

I actually went back to 2010, but I can go back further if you’d like me too.
For the record I think COVID is worse then the flu. The only part of the posters argument I see merit to is IF the vaccine is say, only 40 percent effective like the flu shot, then at what point do we stop wearing masks? Social distancing? No large concerts, events, etc?

Two years? 3? 4? Or when does it become like “flu season” and it’s “stay home when your sick and get your covid shot” but back to business as usual? Will someone be selfish then for no longer social distancing or choosing to “assume risk” and go to indoor dining and bars, etc? It’s a tough moral call.

but for now. Those methods are effective tools that can help us buy time until we have something better.

 

[GoofGoof]

I actually went back to 2010, but I can go back further if you’d like me too.
For the record I think COVID is worse then the flu. The only part of the posters argument I see merit to is IF the vaccine is say, only 40 percent effective like the flu shot, then at what point do we stop wearing masks? Social distancing? No large concerts, events, etc?

Two years? 3? 4? Or when does it become like “flu season” and it’s “stay home when your sick and get your covid shot” but back to business as usual? Will someone be selfish then for no longer social distancing or choosing to “assume risk” and go to indoor dining and bars, etc? It’s a tough moral call.

but for now. Those methods are effective tools that can help us buy time until we have something better.

Let’s worry about today and figure out what to do in 2, 3 or 4 years then.

 

[SamusAranX]

Let’s worry about today and figure out what to do in 2, 3 or 4 years then.

Sorry, you’re not allowed to be reasonable and have a perspective like.
Joking aside. Worrying about things that may never happen is my best character flaw- er I mean personality trait. Let me have it.

I just think it’s a bit simplistic to point fingers right now and automatically say some are “selfish” for wanting to do normal things. I would like to think I have approached a sensible middle ground in my day to day life: I still see a few friends, I generally aim for outdoor activities, and I wear a mask at grocery stores, etc or public places where I don’t know who the people are and lord knows if they even wash their hands no bars right now for me. Done indoor dining a cpl times but that made me uncomfortable and am minimizing that. No big groups for me. And I will not visit any friends or family who are older and/or facing health complications. So I am assuming risk, but also protecting others to the best of my ability. But in three years if we’re in the same boat, am I magically “selfish” for wanting to completely resume normal life? It’s a grey line, not right now, because of goals are to keep the health care system afloat, and protect others who aren’t as fortunate as me to be in good health. Until the vaccine...but if it doesn’t work effectively we then have to find a way to not point fingers and find an acceptable path forward. That’s all I am saying

 

[_caleb]

I actually went back to 2010, but I can go back further if you’d like me too.
For the record I think COVID is worse then the flu. The only part of the posters argument I see merit to is IF the vaccine is say, only 40 percent effective like the flu shot, then at what point do we stop wearing masks? Social distancing? No large concerts, events, etc?

Two years? 3? 4? Or when does it become like “flu season” and it’s “stay home when your sick and get your covid shot” but back to business as usual? Will someone be selfish then for no longer social distancing or choosing to “assume risk” and go to indoor dining and bars, etc? It’s a tough moral call.

but for now. Those methods are effective tools that can help us buy time until we have something better.

As I mentioned a few pages ago, the original reopening plans set specific metrics, like infection rates, deaths, etc. that would trigger the next phase, relaxing restrictions. The question you ask actually has an answer. Once we limit the spread, get new cases and, hospitalizations down, we can relax. And once the numbers go back up, the restrictions come back.

Actual leadership would work with public health officials to determine the numbers needed to trigger each of the phases and then stick with those. Oh, and leadership would also encourage everyone to wear a mask, keep their distance, limit gatherings, and voluntarily give up some of their preferences for the sake of the community.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Hmm. I read that Casinos were frequently mentioned to contact tracers as possible exposure sites. Maybe the Las Vegas Review-Journal isn’t a reliable source?

With tens of thousands of employees and millions of guests I don’t doubt more cases will be linked to casinos than other business in Las Vegas, I’m just saying there hasn’t been any evidence that shows they are any more dangerous than any other business, I think that shows the safeguards work.

 

[SamusAranX]

As I mentioned a few pages ago, the original reopening plans set specific metrics, like infection rates, deaths, etc. that would trigger the next phase, relaxing restrictions. The question you ask actually has an answer. Once we limit the spread, get new cases and, hospitalizations down, we can relax. And once the numbers go back up, the restrictions come back.

Actual leadership would work with public health officials to determine the numbers needed to trigger each of the phases and then stick with those. Oh, and leadership would also encourage everyone to wear a mask, keep their distance, limit gatherings, and voluntarily give up some of their preferences for the sake of the community.

I agree there, but again, how long does that cycle contribute if the vaccine isn’t largely effective? That’s the problem. The public will eventually be sick of that after a couple years. Will people who took precautions for two years but finally get sick of the lather rinse repeat suddenly be labeled “selfish” for no longer wanting to go through this and get back to a relatively normal way of life?