On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[lazyboy97o]

You know as any though that new attractions...no matter the theme level...have a different sort of merit that can’t be outwardly dismissed.

Disney has fallen behind on that front.

The coolest ride is still a detriment if it does not mesh with the themed experience of which it is a part. You’re getting sucked into defending a complete dismissal of theme as a distinct concept beyond secondary aesthetics because it is being presented as critical of Disney.

 

[Communicora]

I think the problem is many Disney fans have the belief that a ride needs to be highly themed to be good. Look no further then the new Jurrasic Park coaster. It looks like it's going to be one of the best new attractions coming in the next year but many Disney fans look down on it cause it's not well themed

Disney theme park fans like Disney because of its themes. The aesthetics are as much a part of the experience as the physics. I enjoy a thrilling roller coaster, but that's not why I choose to vacation at Disneyland or Walt Disney World. It's OK for people to appreciate different things!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The coolest ride is still a detriment if it does not mesh with the themed experience of which it is a part. You’re getting sucked into defending a complete dismissal of theme as a distinct concept beyond secondary aesthetics because it is being presented as critical of Disney.

Is this rookie school?

I’m not getting “sucked” into anything. I don’t promote Steel monstrosities with cardboard cutouts in the queue...you should know that.

But...there’s a middle ground (also called “the truth”) between six flags issue junk and a park having a billion dollar ride with theming and then no additions for 5+ years before and after.

I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. Needs to be a middle ground.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney theme park fans like Disney because of its themes. The aesthetics are as much a part of the experience as the physics. I enjoy a thrilling roller coaster, but that's not why I choose to vacation at Disneyland or Walt Disney World. It's OK for people to appreciate different things!

I don’t think there is a debate on that. That does not mean you have to give “full allegiance” to one concept or the other. The sky is grey.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't see why they can't bundle a few states together. Say New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania together. I have always believed a big part of the high case numbers is the amount of traveling going on in the US. Same with Europe.

To be clear...that is my cluster...basically everything from Ohio above Maryland to Maine is fair game for us...

But we can’t go south...their defiance and quest for money is killing their ability to make money. Flor-I-DUH

 

[marni1971]

I think the problem is many Disney fans have the belief that a ride needs to be highly themed to be good. Look no further then the new Jurrasic Park coaster. It looks like it's going to be one of the best new attractions coming in the next year but many Disney fans look down on it cause it's not well themed

It needs to be themed to be a good themed experience. Theme parks are a themed experience.

You know as any though that new attractions...no matter the theme level...have a different sort of merit that can’t be outwardly dismissed.

Disney has fallen behind on that front.

It will have great theming around the land areas. But will have exposed track - which to some means it looses points. I’m not sure if the official art has been posted yet?

 

[Jrb1979]

Disney theme park fans like Disney because of its themes. The aesthetics are as much a part of the experience as the physics. I enjoy a thrilling roller coaster, but that's not why I choose to vacation at Disneyland or Walt Disney World. It's OK for people to appreciate different things!

I totally get that. My issue has been more with some Disney fans dismissing a great ride cause it lacks theming. Look at this thread, a few people look down on parks like Busch Gardens cause their rides aren't themed enough.

To be clear...that is my cluster...basically everything from Ohio above Maryland to Maine is fair game for us...

But we can’t go south...their defiance and quest for money is killing their ability to make money. Flor-I-DUH

IMO people shouldn't be traveling to Florida right now anyways.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is this rookie school?

I’m not getting “sucked” into anything. I don’t promote Steel monstrosities with cardboard cutouts in the queue...you should know that.

But...there’s a middle ground (also called “the truth”) between six flags issue junk and a park having a billion dollar ride with theming and then no additions for 5+ years before and after.

I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. Needs to be a middle ground.

Middle ground on what? Good storytelling is good storytelling. Six Flags isn’t really trying to tell a story. The middle ground between no story and good story would be a mediocre story. @Jrb1979 doesnt care about the storytelling and does not see it as something distinct. It’s just extra stuff on a ride.

 

[UNCgolf]

I don’t think there is a debate on that. That does not mean you have to give “full allegiance” to one concept or the other. The sky is grey.

I don't think it's about giving full allegiance to one or the other. It's just about a person's individual preferences.

Since I don't really enjoy roller coasters on their own, I'm probably not going to ride one if there isn't elaborate theming (and still may not depending on how intense it is). I'm really only interested in elaborately themed rides, which is why I really only care about Disney -- and Universal to a slightly lesser extent, since they have a weird mishmash of themed and unthemed; certain areas are great and others offer almost nothing to me. I'm really only interested in theme parks. So something like the Jurassic Park coaster going in at Disney would be a huge detriment to my enjoyment, since it's not a ride I'm going to get on and it detracts from the theming of the surrounding areas. That doesn't mean it's wrong to build a coaster like that, or that people shouldn't be very excited about it -- it's just that it's a net negative for me personally.

Of course, I also don't visit parks regularly like others do. I go to Disney and/or Universal once every few years, and go on non-park related trips for the most part.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think it's about giving full allegiance to one or the other. It's just about a person's individual preferences.

Since I don't really enjoy roller coasters on their own, I'm probably not going to ride one if there isn't elaborate theming (and still may not depending on how intense it is). I'm really only interested in elaborately themed rides, which is why I really only care about Disney -- and Universal to a slightly lesser extent, since they have a weird mishmash of themed and unthemed; certain areas are great and others offer almost nothing to me. I'm really only interested in theme parks. So something like the Jurassic Park coaster going in at Disney would be a huge detriment to my enjoyment, since it's not a ride I'm going to get on and it detracts from the theming of the surrounding areas. That doesn't mean it's wrong to build a coaster like that, or that people shouldn't be very excited about it -- it's just that it's a net negative for me personally.

Of course, I also don't visit parks regularly like others do. I go to Disney and/or Universal once every few years, and go on non-park related trips for the most part.

...so in your case, Tron is a complete miss and guardians is a half miss, at best?

 

[UNCgolf]

...so in your case, Tron is a complete miss and guardians is a half miss, at best?

More or less. Tron is basically like Slinky Dog Dash to me (although maybe a bit better since there's less exposed track). I'll probably enjoy riding it because it doesn't seem overly intense (and has no inversions), but it's not something I'm excited about and can think of many things that would be better for me.

I don't really know about Guardians because we still have almost no information on what the actual ride is going to be like.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Middle ground on what? Good storytelling is good storytelling. Six Flags isn’t really trying to tell a story. The middle ground between no story and good story would be a mediocre story. @Jrb1979 doesnt care about the storytelling and does not see it as something distinct. It’s just extra stuff on a ride.

I don’t interpret it that way...

I think he’s saying that his brain can appreciate that type of ride AND the themed ones.

His comment was basically “no need to dismiss a ride (until you try it) just because joe Rhode didn’t blow $700,000,000 on it.”

I agree if that’s the take. Both can have merit in the proper context.

 

[UNCgolf]

As a follow-up example to what I was saying, I live 20-30 minutes from Six Flags over Georgia. It has a ton of big coasters, which make it a great amusement park for most people. I have never been because there's nothing there that interests me.

But again, I certainly don't think that makes it a bad park or that people shouldn't enjoy it. It's just not for me personally.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It will have great theming around the land areas. But will have exposed track - which to some means it looses points. I’m not sure if the official art has been posted yet?

I was blown away by hagrids...so i’m inclined to give Comcast more “leash” than I had prior.

Actually...all of WWOHP. I feel like those that have never been don’t appreciate the quality level...and that it really makes NFL and toy story land look so cheap in comparison. I’ll stop there...nothing good will come of further tangent

 

[Jrb1979]

I don’t interpret it that way...

I think he’s saying that his brain can appreciate that type of ride AND the themed ones.

His comment was basically “no need to dismiss a ride (until you try it) just because joe Rhode didn’t blow $700,000,000 on it.

I agree if that’s the take. Both can have merit in the proper context.

That's exactly what I was saying. IMO one of the best themed coasters is the Mummy. Very thrilling and tells a good story. IMO I don't find any of the Disney coasters very good outside of Rock'n'roller coaster.
They may have a great story but are far from thrilling. For me a good coaster should be highly thrilling.

 

[UNCgolf]

I was blown away by hagrids...so i’m inclined to give Comcast more “leash” than I had prior.

Actually...all of WWOHP. I feel like those that have never been don’t appreciate the quality level...and that it really makes NFL and toy story land look so cheap in comparison. I’ll stop there...nothing good will come of further tangent

Diagon Alley is incredible. The fact that it's completely hidden from the rest of the park is perfect -- we actually had to ask someone where it was because we couldn't find the entrance.

I was less impressed by Hogsmeade, and think they made a terrible decision to use Hogwarts solely as the facade/part of the queue of a ride. But I know that was before they were sure how successful/popular it would be.

I really like the Jurassic Park area too, although the Discovery Center needs a serious technology upgrade.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Diagon Alley is incredible.

I was less impressed by Hogsmeade, and think they made a terrible decision to use Hogwarts solely as the facade/part of the queue of a ride. But I know that was before they were sure how successful/popular it would be.

I really like the Jurassic Park area too, although the Discovery Center needs a serious technology upgrade.

I appreciate hogsmeade more because I know it was a retheme/overlay. That is the best retheme in themepark history and it’s not close.

And diagon is unparalleled as a new build. They had the right people and paid to do it right.

 

[UNCgolf]

That's exactly what I was saying. IMO one of the best themed coasters is the Mummy. Very thrilling and tells a good story. IMO I don't find any of the Disney coasters very good outside of Rock'n'roller coaster.
They may have a great story but are far from thrilling. For me a good coaster should be highly thrilling.

The Mummy is a very good ride. That is the kind of coaster I would be happy to see more of.

 

[marni1971]

For me a good coaster should be highly thrilling.

For thrill seekers yes. BTM is a family coaster with some of the most impeccable theming. Paris is amazing.

It doesn’t pretend to be anything else.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's exactly what I was saying. IMO one of the best themed coasters is the Mummy. Very thrilling and tells a good story. IMO I don't find any of the Disney coasters very good outside of Rock'n'roller coaster.
They may have a great story but are far from thrilling. For me a good coaster should be highly thrilling.

I don’t like the mummy much...but found it to be solid.

This is Everest debate though...with the yeti it was a really ingenious themed ride...without it its really a bland Lower mid level coaster. Just as mine train is a junior with a couple cool AAs.

But people are appalled if you say Everest isn’t great. Which is just allegiance to the mouse...not the ride quality.