News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[celluloid]

I’ve never visited either, but that’s because my trips are never long enough to allow for the more leisurely kinds of activities. Still, I’m glad it’s there, and I look forward to experiencing it one day.

If you visit Tom Sawyer's Island with a kid, I can assure you that it is likely not lesisurrely.
Have fun exploring. I hope you get back!

 

[Surferboy567]

The problem with trying to shoehorn Princess and the Frog into Frontierland is that it fits neither that time period nor does it have a pioneering spirit. Princess and the Frog takes place in 1926.

This honestly, blew my mind. I knew the movie took place in the past but never noticed the actual year. I actually had to google the year, can’t believe I never noticed that. Not sure if it changes my mind but that is a cool fact.

 

[drizgirl]

Folks, they didn’t come at this saying we need a PATF attraction. They came at this saying we need to retheme Splash Mountain. I could be mistaken but I don’t think PATF merchandise ever sold that well. So I don’t think they would be looking to add an attraction unless it fulfilled some other need.

 

[Surferboy567]

Folks, they didn’t come out this saying we need a princess and the frog attraction. They came out this saying we need to rethink splash Mountain. I could be mistaken but I don’t think PATF merchandise ever sold that well. So I don’t think they would be looking to add an attraction unless it fulfilled some other need.

It about erasing Song of the South plan and simple. That is it. They needed another IP that vaguely resembles Splash. It is also more marketable.

 

[_caleb]

Probably an unpopular opinion but Hall of Presidents takes up a lot of space. I haven't been to it in years. I wouldn't have a problem with the entire Liberty Square being re themed to something different but I still say Tom Sawyer Island is the ideal spot for Princess and the Frog.

If you haven’t been to Hall of Presidents for years, you should try it again. It’s better (and probably worse!) than you remember.

How is Tom Sawyer Island the ideal spot for Princess and the Frog? I’m guessing you don’t mean that they should move Splash Mountain to TSI and retheme it, so something else? And then how do guests who want to experience the attraction get there? The slow and inefficient rafts? Or are you thinking they should build a bridge of some sort?

The reason I’m not a fan of the idea is that TSI is one of the few places in the parks that still provides the”original” Disney feeling. It has lots of nature, but is still well-themed, the narrow paths provide moments of “nobody around be me” intimate experience in what is otherwise a pretty large area of land. TSI isn’t my favorite thing about the parks, but I would hate for future generations to lose these areas in favor of more plastic and pavement.

 

[drizgirl]

It about erasing Song of the South plan and simple. That is it. They needed another IP that vaguely resembles Splash. It is also more marketable.

Yep. Which is why the suggestions of putting Princess and the Frog in Liberty Square or Fantasyland are just fantasy.

 

[_caleb]

Frontierland was never meant to be only Western themed. It’s called “Frontier”land – meaning a tribute to the American frontier – the rugged lands that stretched across the entire nation – from the Appalachians to the Great Plains to the Rockies to the Desert Southwest. It’s an ode to the pioneering spirit – American exploration.

Just think of Davy Crockett. He’s Disney’s very embodiment of “frontier,” and yet he only goes West when he fights at the Alamo. At the beginning of the movie, he’s in Tennessee (“greenest state in the land of the free”). In the second movie, he’s moving along the Ohio River with Mike Fink – a place far from the West.

That’s why it’s called the “Rivers of America” in Frontierland, and not “Rivers of the West.” They used to have the Mike Fink keelboats on it. The Rivers of America encircle Tom Sawyer’s Island. Tom Sawyer, like Crockett, was all about exploring.

If you read any of the old official WDW books (that were published long before Splash was even conceived), you’ll see that Frontierland is themed after the pioneering spirit and the timeframe of the 1770s-1880s (roughly the period right after Liberty Square and before Main Street).

The Country Bears fit right in. Even though it’s set in the year it opened (1971), it’s an ode to that timeframe and the ideas of pioneers. That’s why you have Henry singing about Davy Crockett, Big Al in a cowboy hat singing a song set in the old West (Blood on the Saddle), and Teddi Barra being like an old-time saloon girl, and the Five Bear Rugs being like hillbillies. Buff is a buffalo – a creature of the Great Plains. Melvin is a moose – an animal of the north. The entire show takes place in Grizzly Hall – grizzly bears live up near the north. The Bears were never meant to be tethered to one geographic location.

Splash Mountain fits into that theme of the 1770s-1880s, and pioneers, too. Song of the South takes place after the Civil War ended (late 1860s about). The whole story of Splash is Brer Rabbit “moving along, looking for adventure” much like a pioneer. The animated segments in Song of the South (which the ride is based on) are set out in the wilderness – the frontier.

The problem with trying to shoehorn Princess and the Frog into Frontierland is that it fits neither that time period nor does it have a pioneering spirit. Princess and the Frog takes place in 1926. For reference, that’s only two years before Steamboat Willie came out – a far cry from the 1770s-1880s. And, the movie doesn’t have anything to do with being a pioneer. Tiana’s main goal is to open a restaurant in New Orleans (a place already crowded with restaurants). There’s nothing pioneering about that. I'd put Princess and the Frog in Fantasyland. They could use the building that once housed Snow White's Scary Adventure.

So anything west of America’s Eastern seaboard is “Frontier?” I get what you’re saying, the Western Frontier wasn’t a single time frame or region because it moved over time. But that’s a HUGE catch-all sort of theme, isn’t it? From Louis and Clark to the the Land Run to the Gold Rush. I agree that this was originally the intent for the land, but it’s vary difficult to communicate (especially with an audience so far removed from even the sentiment of the Pioneers).

It’s like Tomorrowland- it originally had a proper theme, but over the years devolved into “Future/Retro/Sci-Fi/Aliens/Space” Land.

Again, not disagreeing with you, just saying that because the primary concern is getting ride of Song of the South characters, the retheme of Splash is the next step in changing the Frontierland theme to, well, something else (akin to Disneyland’s Bear/Critter Country).

 

[JoeCamel]

So anything west of America’s Eastern seaboard is “Frontier?” I get what you’re saying, the Western Frontier wasn’t a single time frame or region because it moved over time. But that’s a HUGE catch-all sort of theme, isn’t it? From Louis and Clark to the the Land Run to the Gold Rush. I agree that this was originally the intent for the land, but it’s vary difficult to communicate (especially with an audience so far removed from even the sentiment of the Pioneers).

It’s like Tomorrowland- it originally had a proper theme, but over the years devolved into “Future/Retro/Sci-Fi/Aliens/Space” Land.

Again, not disagreeing with you, just saying that because the primary concern is getting ride of Song of the South characters, the retheme of Splash is the next step in changing the Frontierland theme to, well, something else (akin to Disneyland’s Bear/Critter Country).

That is the way it was explained to me. The theme is about American expansion across the continent.
Where are each end of the street set? East and west right?

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

If you haven’t been to Hall of Presidents for years, you should try it again. It’s better (and probably worse!) than you remember.

How is Tom Sawyer Island the ideal spot for Princess and the Frog? I’m guessing you don’t mean that they should move Splash Mountain to TSI and retheme it, so something else? And then how do guests who want to experience the attraction get there? The slow and inefficient rafts? Or are you thinking they should build a bridge of some sort?

The reason I’m not a fan of the idea is that TSI is one of the few places in the parks that still provides the”original” Disney feeling. It has lots of nature, but is still well-themed, the narrow paths provide moments of “nobody around be me” intimate experience in what is otherwise a pretty large area of land. TSI isn’t my favorite thing about the parks, but I would hate for future generations to lose these areas in favor of more plastic and pavement.

I get what your're saying. I'm not talking about moving splash. I was speaking more of recreating TSI into a little PatF mini land, You have the swamp and a riverboat already. They could do some amazing things with that area. But I do get TSI is the only "escape" in MK

 

[_caleb]

I get what your're saying. I'm not talking about moving splash. I was speaking more of recreating TSI into a little PatF mini land, You have the swamp and a riverboat already. They could do some amazing things with that area. But I do get TSI is the only "escape" in MK

Thanks. I'd hate to lose TSI, but I see your point about how it might all fit.

I do hope they make the immediate area around Splash Mountain carry that "swampy" theme just a bit and then do a Disneyland-style transition to neighboring attractions within the land.

 

[Touchdown]

I think it’s fair to call anything included in the Louisiana Purchase and lands further west as part of “the West” which New Orleans is a part of.

The problem with PatF is purely the time period (1920s.) Splash is never fully defined of its exact location, I like to think it’s near the Mississippi River so it fits in Frontierland.

 

[_caleb]

I think it’s fair to call anything included in the Louisiana Purchase and lands further west as part of “the West” which New Orleans is a part of.

The problem with PatF is purely the time period (1920s.) Splash is never fully defined of its exact location, I like to think it’s near the Mississippi River so it fits in Frontierland.

Yep. I agree that it's the time period that makes it a tougher fit. "Anything/Everything West of the Mississippi From 1776 to 1930" isn't really a workable theme, is it?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yep. I agree that it's the time period that makes it a tougher fit. "Anything/Everything West of the Mississippi From 1776 to 1930" isn't really a workable theme, is it?

It is representative of the conflating of theme with setting.

 

[_caleb]

It is representative of the conflating of theme with setting.

Which is not really a new problem, is it?

In your opinion, is there a workable theming solution for a Frontierland with a Princess-and-the-Frog-ified Splash Mountain?

 

[EagleScout610]

So checking the WDW page for Splash, I noticed it still says "Songs inspired by Song of the South" under the photo of the Zip A Dee Lady. Not news or anything, just an observation.

 

[_caleb]

So checking the WDW page for Splash, I noticed it still says "Songs inspired by Song of the South" under the photo of the Zip A Dee Lady. Not news or anything, just an observation.

Well, it's not wrong. But strange, given that they photoshopped the Brer Rabbit figureheads off of the Splash logs. Given the support for the existing theme, I can see them leaving everything alone until they actually begin the retheme: selling the Splash merchandise while reminding the public that they're (eventually) going to retime it to Princess and the Frog. This way, they play to fans on both sides.

Curious about the rumors of changes to the flume being part of the redesign plan. @lazyboy97o has talked about the ride system needed to be refurbished, so maybe this is what's fueling speculation about the ride path being modified somehow? Do we know anything more about this?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Which is not really a new problem, is it?

In your opinion, is there a workable theming solution for a Frontierland with a Princess-and-the-Frog-ified Splash Mountain?

Not a new problem, but one that seems to be getting worse.

Not really. Tiana's story is not one of the frontier. She also lives in a very different world, one where the frontier has not only closed but the world has seen the horrors of The Great War.

So checking the WDW page for Splash, I noticed it still says "Songs inspired by Song of the South" under the photo of the Zip A Dee Lady. Not news or anything, just an observation.

Try clearing your cache. The reference to Song of the South has been removed and there is a note under the image carousel that the attraction will be changed.

Curious about the rumors of changes to the flume being part of the redesign plan. @lazyboy97o has talked about the ride system needed to be refurbished, so maybe this is what's fueling speculation about the ride path being modified somehow? Do we know anything more about this?

I've talked about the entire facility needing work, just as a fact that water makes things gross.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Frontierland was never meant to be only Western themed. It’s called “Frontier”land – meaning a tribute to the American frontier – the rugged lands that stretched across the entire nation – from the Appalachians to the Great Plains to the Rockies to the Desert Southwest. It’s an ode to the pioneering spirit – American exploration.

Just think of Davy Crockett. He’s Disney’s very embodiment of “frontier,” and yet he only goes West when he fights at the Alamo. At the beginning of the movie, he’s in Tennessee (“greenest state in the land of the free”). In the second movie, he’s moving along the Ohio River with Mike Fink – a place far from the West.

That’s why it’s called the “Rivers of America” in Frontierland, and not “Rivers of the West.” They used to have the Mike Fink keelboats on it. The Rivers of America encircle Tom Sawyer’s Island. Tom Sawyer, like Crockett, was all about exploring.

If you read any of the old official WDW books (that were published long before Splash was even conceived), you’ll see that Frontierland is themed after the pioneering spirit and the timeframe of the 1770s-1880s (roughly the period right after Liberty Square and before Main Street).

The Country Bears fit right in. Even though it’s set in the year it opened (1971), it’s an ode to that timeframe and the ideas of pioneers. That’s why you have Henry singing about Davy Crockett, Big Al in a cowboy hat singing a song set in the old West (Blood on the Saddle), and Teddi Barra being like an old-time saloon girl, and the Five Bear Rugs being like hillbillies. Buff is a buffalo – a creature of the Great Plains. Melvin is a moose – an animal of the north. The entire show takes place in Grizzly Hall – grizzly bears live up near the north. The Bears were never meant to be tethered to one geographic location.

Splash Mountain fits into that theme of the 1770s-1880s, and pioneers, too. Song of the South takes place after the Civil War ended (late 1860s about). The whole story of Splash is Brer Rabbit “moving along, looking for adventure” much like a pioneer. The animated segments in Song of the South (which the ride is based on) are set out in the wilderness – the frontier.

The problem with trying to shoehorn Princess and the Frog into Frontierland is that it fits neither that time period nor does it have a pioneering spirit. Princess and the Frog takes place in 1926. For reference, that’s only two years before Steamboat Willie came out – a far cry from the 1770s-1880s. And, the movie doesn’t have anything to do with being a pioneer. Tiana’s main goal is to open a restaurant in New Orleans (a place already crowded with restaurants). There’s nothing pioneering about that. I'd put Princess and the Frog in Fantasyland. They could use the building that once housed Snow White's Scary Adventure.

This is all a post facto explanation to diminish all the exceptions to a unifying theme that a land (umm... both lands) should have... but doesn't. At least, not completely. Sure there are elements that fit and go together, but they are also way too many exceptions which get overlooked by those who want there to be consistency and refuse to see or acknowledge the inconsistencies.

CBJ does have a Davy Crockett song, but everything else is 20th century. The majority of the show doesn't praise the pioneering spirit.

Hall of Presidents has a colonial facade and tells the story of the founding of the USA, but then goes on to tell its whole history including focsuing on the civil war and speeches by 21st Century presidents. The attraction is present day.

Splash Mountain has nothing -- absolutely nothing -- to do with a pioneering spirit. That's an absurd argument. Reconstruction Georgia was not at all frontier territory. And adding a few Western architectural elements doesn't give the attraction a pioneering spirit. The West wasn't settled by trickster pioneers.

Rivers of America's port isn't even in Frontierland, it's in Liberty Square, and not just because it's marked that way on a map, but because it's actually called Liberty Square Riverboat and located in the heart of Liberty Square. There couldn't be a clearer sign that Disney created this self-inflicted wound of jumbled theming than having a Mississippi Riverboat pull up into the Colonial East.

What's happening here is akin to people who give Haunted Mansion a narrative that runs through the ride. Anyone familiar with how the attraction was created knows that's not the case. But, after the fact, people insist on a story that gets contradicted by the ride over and over again.

 

[Brer_Bear_Is_Number_One]

CBJ does have a Davy Crockett song, but everything else is 20th century. The majority of the show doesn't praise the pioneering spirit.

It's an "ode" to pioneering/rugged outdoorsness. It takes place the year it opened - 1971. It's a 20th Century take on the olden days. Big Al was even inspired by Tex Ritter - a 20th century singer and actor famous for playing cowboys set in the old West. Of course it doesn't "praise" the pioneering spirit, but it *is* there.

Hall of Presidents has a colonial facade and tells the story of the founding of the USA, but then goes on to tell its whole history including focsuing on the civil war and speeches by 21st Century presidents. The attraction is present day.

I was talking about Frontierland, but anyway, the essence of Hall of Presidents harkens back to the Revolution.

Splash Mountain has nothing -- absolutely nothing -- to do with a pioneering spirit. That's an absurd argument. Reconstruction Georgia was not at all frontier territory. And adding a few Western architectural elements doesn't give the attraction a pioneering spirit. The West wasn't settled by trickster pioneers.

Splash Mountain has nothing to do with Reconstruction Georgia. Splash is based only on the animated segments of Song of the South, which are set out in the sticks - in the rugged wilderness. Brer Rabbit wasn't being a trickster when he wanted to move along. With his bindle in hand, he wants to go out into the unknown. He nails up his door, not expecting to return. He only resorts to tricks when Brer Fox is on to him.

Rivers of America's port isn't even in Frontierland, it's in Liberty Square, and not just because it's marked that way on a map, but because it's actually called Liberty Square Riverboat and located in the heart of Liberty Square. There couldn't be a clearer sign that Disney created this self-inflicted wound of jumbled theming than having a Mississippi Riverboat pull up into the Colonial East.

And the port for the Tom Sawyer Island Rafts is in Frontierland. Rivers of America is technically shared by both lands. Tom Sawyer Island is Frontierland and the island is smack in the middle of the rivers. The Rivers used to have the Mike Fink Keelboats and Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes. The Liberty Bell Riverboat isn't necessarily a Mississippi riverboat. There are a lot of rivers in the USA. I think that's what the Rivers of America are for. You can interpret them as any river. It's kind of like the Jungle Cruise river which goes through South America, Africa and Asia.

 

[seabreezept813]

That's the problem. Liberty Square isn't a sustainable concept for today's Disney where everything has to tie to an IP. The best hope for a thematically appropriate attraction in the Liberty Square / Frontierland area would be something related to Pocahontas. The best option for the future of this land is either non-IP (not with the current admin) or a theme change.

Considering that the area is also home to attractions that can be considered controversial (Splash, Country Bears, the Native American Village, Tom Sawyer Island and Hall of Presidents), it certainly stands to reason that a re-theme of the area makes sense logically.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective), I can't imagine there's a true budget for that type of re-imagining.

I think Sleepy Hollow would be perfect for Liberty Square.