On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[DisneyDebRob]

There’s also a higher percentage of park guests experiencing something like COP now because wait times are generally shorter around the park so guests are doing more than before. They are looking for other things to do because they have already done everything they would have typically done.

I get it and thanks. I’m just having a hard time thinking of these people, talking here about 10 minute waits on all the big attractions would say let’s go wait 30 for CoP. Whether they ever saw it or not. I need to stop trying to figure what goes through people’s minds.

 

[peter11435]

I get it and thanks. I’m just having a hard time thinking of these people, talking here about 10 minute waits on all the big attractions would say let’s go wait 30 for CoP. Whether they ever saw it or not. I need to stop trying to figure what goes through people’s minds.

Even waiting three loads at COP really shouldn’t have been much more than 15 minutes.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Even waiting three loads at COP really shouldn’t have been much more than 15 minutes.

I was counting the breakdowns.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agree that we've seen that business philosophy occur. But my hot take would be that they started at a certain baseline. They upped prices and cut experiences so that profit margins are that much higher. If the current pandemic and the lower crowds means that people aren't buying "respite from crowds" that that's just less revenue coming in. But the same basic revenue as before (your more basic tickets, whatever hotel rooms they sell, food/merch) is still in place. I don't see how that makes them "worse" off than before, just returning back to lower revenue per guest numbers - something Wall St won't like, I guess, but not exactly meaning that the parks will shutter.

The baseline has shifted. They’ve finally somewhat realized that the parks do need new offerings to keep people happy and coming but return on investment has become significantly worse during Iger’s years. They need even more people to come in order to justify increasingly more expensive attractions. Smaller visitation can’t justify attractions costing hundreds of millions of dollars. Something like the Epcot Festival Center is a massive vanity project employing a high cost starchitect firm on top of Disney’s high costs all justified by the belief that crowds will remain and pay up charges.

Disney is terrified of Wall Street’s response to the parks because leadership doesn’t really understand the business, so they don’t know how to defend it. It’s why we saw Disney go into an all out panic every time there is a little blip in attendance.

I would take all 10 of those B&M's over TRON and Guardians.

And that is fine but it’s still rather irrelevant.

 

[MonorailCoral]

I get it and thanks. I’m just having a hard time thinking of these people, talking here about 10 minute waits on all the big attractions would say let’s go wait 30 for CoP. Whether they ever saw it or not. I need to stop trying to figure what goes through people’s minds.

Probably the same reason I always made the movie in France a mandatory stop:

Air conditioned, dark...Power nap time.

 

[Brer Panther]

So how long exactly are we going to be stuck with Iger?

 

[marni1971]

Regarding theme park attendance, it's important to remember that, historically, attendance often drops prior to the opening of major attractions. For example:

• Universal's attendance dropped 12% the year before Wizzarding World of Harry Potter opened.

That was an expected figure for Universal in the dark ages. Potter basically saved USO. Had Potter not turned things around one viable option on the table was to close.

 

[drizgirl]

Probably the same reason I always made the movie in France a mandatory stop:

Air conditioned, dark...Power nap time.

Add in fear that anything nostalgic could disappear before their next trip, and I'd wait too.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that I like how Disney has run the park in the Iger years (and late Eisner years). But the doom and gloomers on here keep suggesting that the day of reconing is coming soon and the parks will collapse and... I just don't see any evidence of it. My prospective is that people on these boards want that to happen so the parks can go back to how thing used to be (I want it too!) but I don't see it happening.

This perfectly encapsulates my view. I'm also not personally thrilled with the direction in which the parks have gone in recent decades. Still, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in all these predictions of doom. This whole thread seems to have begun from exactly that perspective of "at last!"

I'm not clear, for example, how they have mismanaged the parks to the point of backing themselves into a corner where they can't adjust prices and offerings for a changed post-pandemic economic reality. The chase for endless growth being described in here certainly doesn't sound like an Iger or Eisner thing, but rather standard business practice for publicly traded companies under neoliberalism. If that changes, they seem in a fine position to course correct and remain profitable rather than collapse in ruins.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This perfectly encapsulates my view. I'm also not personally thrilled with the direction in which the parks have gone in recent decades. Still, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in all this predictions of doom. This whole thread seems to have begun from exactly that perspective of "at last!"

I'm not clear, for example, how they have mismanaged the parks to the point of backing themselves into a corner where they can't adjust prices and offerings for a changed post-pandemic economic reality. The chase for endless growth being described in here certainly doesn't sound like an Iger or Eisner thing, but rather standard business practice for publicly traded companies under neoliberalism. If that changes, they seem in a fine position to course correct and remain profitable rather than collapse in ruins.

The problem is not knowing your business well enough to know what to cut so that you can become leaner and more agile.

 

[lewisc]

The problem is not knowing your business well enough to know what to cut so that you can become leaner and more agile.

I read, during the slump after 9-11, AK was a mistake. The $$$ to feed and take care of the animals greatly reduces savings if the park is closed several days a week.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I read, during the slump after 9-11, AK was a mistake. The $$$ to feed and take care of the animals greatly reduces savings if the park is closed several days a week.

Careful opening of certain gates allow some of the animals to feed themselves. And, as a bonus, less overall mouths to feed.

 

[lewisc]

Careful opening of certain gates allow some of the animals to feed themselves. And, as a bonus, less overall mouths to feed.

Film for Disney +. Survival of the fittest.

 

[tirian]

Regarding theme park attendance, it's important to remember that, historically, attendance often drops prior to the opening of major attractions. For example:

• Universal's attendance dropped 12% the year before Wizzarding World of Harry Potter opened.
• The Magic Kingdom's attendance dropped a cumulative total of 11% in the years leading up to the opening of Epcot.

Once vacationers hear about new attractions, many delay their next trips until those new attractions are open.

Disney has (had) announced plans to open major attractions over the course of several years. There will be those who wait for most or all to open before their next visit.

When I look at the numbers being reported in Disney's SEC fillings, I see a company that has done better than most at keeping Guests coming despite these publicly announced new attractions.

Since my last financial analysis at the end of fiscal year 2016, when I reported a massive increase in domestic capital expenditures:

Walt Disney World’s Biggest Investment since 1998

Domestic theme park attendance has changed by:

• 2% in fiscal 2017,
• 4% in fiscal 2018,
• 0% in fiscal 2019,
• 2% in the first quarter of fiscal 2020.

If it were not for COVID-19, Disney would be well on its way to another year of record attendance. Disney's theme park attendance had been unusually resilient prior to the onset of COVID-19.

You’re absolutely right, but I’m talking long-term influence on reputation. We’re looking at it two different ways, and I suspect it’s because of our jobs IRL.

 

[tirian]

Careful opening of certain gates allow some of the animals to feed themselves. And, as a bonus, less overall mouths to feed.

They could rename it Jurassic Park, but that would require purchasing a new IP. Maybe Blue Aliens vs. Predators?

 

[tirian]

I find it interesting to muse on honestly, because I feel like they're kind of losing me as a customer precisely because of that sensation of it all being "overwhelming" and "overpriced". As I've said elsewhere, I don't like feeling quite so nickel and dimed and the level of planning involved makes it feel like work more than a vacation.

Still, in the current circumstances, I wonder whether it perversely works in their favour. They're going to struggle to get anyone down to WDW when it's located in a hotspot of a global pandemic. The big selling point now, though, is that the crowds are manageable and, while you have to reserve your park, the overall planning is far more manageable. People are also now used to astronomical prices, so in the short term they can still squeeze as much out of each guest as they want. In the meantime, the company is also diversified enough that they can afford for the parks and resorts to lose money for the time being.

In the longer term, they'll have to adapt to whatever comes after the pandemic. Still, for the moment, I wonder whether the things I don't like are actually still working just fine for them.

Considering that they’re cutting park hours, the tactic isn’t working — not to mention the pandemic’s effect.

 

[tirian]

Absolutely, the experience has been watered down as we discuss all too often on these pages. Where I would question is whether that's really been "bad for business" as the parks seem to have been thriving financially and with attendance despite all the changes we bemoan on here. I'm not saying that I agree with those decisions, only that the reckoning that many on here seem to suggest is right around the corner has yet to happen.

Could this erode the fan base over time? Maybe. I agree that it's possible that the way the parks have been handled may result in future generations not being as enamored as past ones. And maybe that "rite of passage" of going to Disney might disappear into yesterday. Or maybe not.

Granted the pandemic has shot it all to bits, but that would have happened no matter what they had done with the parks in the last quarter century. It's not like revenues are down because they shoved Frozen into the Norway pavilion and people are annoyed.



Agree that we've seen that business philosophy occur. But my hot take would be that they started at a certain baseline. They upped prices and cut experiences so that profit margins are that much higher. If the current pandemic and the lower crowds means that people aren't buying "respite from crowds" that that's just less revenue coming in. But the same basic revenue as before (your more basic tickets, whatever hotel rooms they sell, food/merch) is still in place. I don't see how that makes them "worse" off than before, just returning back to lower revenue per guest numbers - something Wall St won't like, I guess, but not exactly meaning that the parks will shutter.



I'm very skeptical. I think that tons of middle class people still go to Disney, from all over the country and world. The attendance isn't what it is on the backs of people coming multiple times a year from out of town. Everyone I know still does the at least one in a lifetime visit with their kids, many go every few years at least. Sometimes that means saving, sometimes that means credit card debt. But they still come if they can; I don't think the board's perception of "not worth the cost" is really that of the general public.

I agree about the pandemic and state of the economy affecting credit and finances and the parks are going to be taking a hit for a while - even if the virus is gone. But that's just a broad economy/vacation based issue, not specific to Disney or how they've run the parks. If they need to, they run promotions and discounts and make the parks seem like a "bargain" compared to previous costs in order to bring people back. Some execs and Wall St may not like that idea and culd view it as "devaluing" but the reality is in a post-COVID world, business will do what they need to and the sharp pencil guys will understand.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that I like how Disney has run the park in the Iger years (and late Eisner years). But the doom and gloomers on here keep suggesting that the day of reconing is coming soon and the parks will collapse and... I just don't see any evidence of it. My prospective is that people on these boards want that to happen so the parks can go back to how thing used to be (I want it too!) but I don't see it happening.

Some of us simply want to return to the value of having one ticket price that included rides, maintenance, shows, a day parade, fireworks, and a night parade—the way Disney built its reputation. That’s also the way the parks operated for years, even under Eisner and the first few years of Iger.

But you’re right, the parks aren’t going out of business. No way. Some people should rein that in a little bit.

 

[tirian]

So how long exactly are we going to be stuck with Iger?

Haha, the current policies came from Chapek. “He ain’t called Cheap-ek for nothing!”

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The baseline has shifted. They’ve finally somewhat realized that the parks do need new offerings to keep people happy and coming but return on investment has become significantly worse during Iger’s years. They need even more people to come in order to justify increasingly more expensive attractions. Smaller visitation can’t justify attractions costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

These Tweets by two people who seem to know about this kind of stuff (one a former forum member) seem relevant:

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Disney: Is there anybody who knows stuff about these kiddie ride places?

Legit Industry Experts and Former Top Employees: Yes, we actually have a few suggestions...

Disney: Do you have a background in social media marketing? Have you managed a Mall?