Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Father Robinson]

Tiki Room portrays natives and colonialism. People say it in tweets here. AK and AKL, same reason why people hate Ringling Brothers and Seaworld. They hold animals captive. CoP because of not enough mention of women's rights and only portraying Sarah as only a house wife. Other threads on here have mentioned why but I'm trying to find the exact quotes but its too many pages. Monster's Inc singles out guests as "that guy" and poking fun at guests' expense.

You could also add Hoop De Doo and the Liberty Bell.

Last scene has Sarah seeming to be a working mom.

 

[seabreezept813]

And I believe Eisner came up w/ the name for Splash Mountain.

I am NOT a fan of Iger. When I worked at Disney and Eisner was at our hotel, he came across as very personable, very down to earth - even picked up a small piece of trash that was on the floor and just kept on walking. No airs about him.

I think Eisner actually likes the product the company sold, which makes such a difference. He was also much more visible..despite not having been CEO for awhile his face comes to my mind much more clearly than the Bobs..

 

[celluloid]

That's a very reductive, simplistic view of a remarkably complex social issue, to say the least.

Look at the Fenner Brothers from The Princess And The Frog. They liked Tiana, or at least the didn't actively dislike her. They were very polite and complimentary. But they still pulled the rug out from under her, and then they thought they were doing her a favor.

Not all racists are cackling Red Skull style villains. Racism can come in many insidious, seemingly innocuous forms.

I never said hate equals extreme melodrama. Hate is intentional though. You have shifted arguments.
That is not racist just because of different colors. That is just called being a jerk to fellow humans. If you claim something is racist there needs to be evidence of a bias that one race is superior to another as a motive. It can't just be the deafult.

 

[Brer Panther]

Brer Fox's voice is very much like that of Eddie Murphy. Are Donkey from Shrek and Mushu from Mulan offensive stereotypes too?

And Brer Roadrunner? I don’t have time to analyze all the animals, there may be some eastern ones too, but he was one that stood out to me as a sign of being in the west.

For what it's worth, he's in the Disneyland version too. Dunno if that counts for anything, just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[celluloid]

I think Eisner actually likes the product the company sold, which makes such a difference. He was also much more visible..despite not having been CEO for awhile his face comes to my mind much more clearly than the Bobs..

If you read Eisner's book you will find the reasons that is. Very great stuff. He had a passion for show business. Imagineers loved pitching to him. Splash Mt was the first major theme park project he pushed forward when his son Brek looked at the model at Imagineering with Tony Baxter.

 

[seabreezept813]

My thoughts exactly. That old Snow White attraction spot was prime real estate for a new PatF attraction. Then they could have had an attraction representing African American folklore AND an attraction representing their first African American princess. And, bonus, little girls could have actually ridden the dark ride in Fantasyland.

This is a fair point. With the exception of Mine Train, which is more of an in the middle ride, most princess stuff is accessible to the toddler set. My 2 year old knows Tiana well, but I’d give it at least a year or more until she could do a ride like Splash and she’s 100th percentile for height. At 1.5 she loved Under the Sea and Frozen Ever After. I could see a bigger sibling rivalry issue with a 7 year old rising Tiana but a 4 year old being too short.

 

[HoustonHorn]

Stephen King's books (and the language therein) - and the fact that he's deemed "OK" - are a great example of selective outrage / selective cancel culture.

Is that like how it's perfectly fine for the Candadian PM and Virginia governor to don blackface?

 

[Matt_Black]

I never said hate equals extreme melodrama. Hate is intentional though. You have shifted arguments.
That is not racist just because of different colors. That is just called being a jerk to fellow humans. If you claim something is racist there needs to be evidence of a bias that one race is superior to another as a motive. It can't just be the deafult.

They literally say "a woman of your.... background". Now, MAYBE they were just referencing her economic background (which is problematic in and of itself, but that's another topic).

And if anyone is shifting arguments, it's the "racism = hate" angle that got introduced.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Last scene has Sarah seeming to be a working mom.

I was trying to remember from those threads but thank you for clarifying. Just too many pages to go through on a slew of different threads lol.

 

[Musical Mermaid]

Brer Fox's voice is very much like that of Eddie Murphy. Are Donkey from Shrek and Mushu from Mulan offensive stereotypes too?


For what it's worth, he's in the Disneyland version too. Dunno if that counts for anything, just thought I'd bring it up.

Is the porcupine at both too? Porcupines don’t live in the southeastern US. I don’t know where either of the rides are technically supposed to be located, maybe fictional US, it’d be nice if the imagineers told us, but it’s not the same place as the movie. I guess that’s what happens when the original Brer animals crossed paths with the animals from America Sings. Princess and the Frog however, would have to time travel to get close to Frontierland and I don’t think Tiana wants to go there.

 

[celluloid]

They literally say "a woman of your.... background". Now, MAYBE they were just referencing her economic background (which is problematic in and of itself, but that's another topic).

And if anyone is shifting arguments, it's the "racism = hate" angle that got introduced.

What would you rather call it? Lack of love? No bias is fine with honest love towards another person in their heart.
No one is saying those guys were right, but since it features that, let me ask you, should we bury that film? Kind of makes splash an even trade if you use that standpoint.

 

[orlandogal22]

Is that like how it's perfectly fine for the Candadian PM and Virginia governor to don blackface?

Yep.

I am not a fan of Megyn Kelly, but she got canned for simply asking a question.

Yet we now have Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon. Even if "excused" as "comedy," if you're going to cancel one, gotta cancel all.

One group cannot simply "apologize" the error away, yet another cannot.

 

[21stamps]

Bwahaha. I'd never heard of this and in looking it up found a thread from 2014 where someone asked if he was still on the ride. This led to someone asking why there's a roadrunner when the entire rest of the ride is Southeastern animals.

Seeing him in video, I always thought that was Mr. Bluebird.

Overall, I never found the ride to be anything that would be out of theme with the Southeast so I never thought of attempt being made to retheme it for Florida.



Glam-up change? Do you mean for the Let It Go montage? I'm not sure specifically what you mean.



Hehehehe. This is even vaguer. Listen, I don't know if you know this, but there's people taking exception with everything. If you're looking to be offended, you could find something wrong with everything. Therefore, it's nigh impossible to know exactly what you mean when you're critiquing Carousel.



They'd lost their chance. They would need to find a princess. What did you want them to do? Princess and the Frog II: Journey to a New World? There's not a whole lot of princesses in the entire hemisphere.

Unless you mean when she was tempted by Facilier. Are you criticizing her for refusing to fall for the villain's trick?

I’ll start with Tiana, as it’s by far the lighter of the two subjects. In Disney’s ‘we’re going to right 2 wrongs with 1 movie!!’’ story, we meet an ambitious girl with a life long dream of opening a restaurant. Girl falls in love, has a chance to return to achieving that dream, the one she worked and sacrificed so much for.. but decided to choose a man instead. then, a happy ending because someone else’s magic righted it. Not exactly the 2 for 1 after all. Really just the same princess story as all the ones before.


Now, CoP.
Have you ever been on it?
I’m asking this, because if you had, there is no way that you could ask ‘what could make women feel a certain way about what they’re watching?’ I can’t reconcile the 2 if you have.

Your accusation of “offended” couldn’t be more off base though.. especially not if you’ve read anything I’ve written on these pages.

I’m not offended by history. History is what it is. What’s important is to recognize it and realize we’re creating history every day. Realizing that it will continue to be created after we’re gone. What we can do, is try to have an impact on that, even by actively creating our own history, as individuals. We should appreciate the past without being defined by it. The wrongs of the past with things like skin color and gender, don’t have to linger in today., not if we refuse to be a victim to it, and refuse to perpetuate the stereotypes.


CoP is a stark reminder of a patriarchal society (for lack of a better phrase), of how women were viewed and treated. I don’t watch it and feel defeated, I watch it and feel so happy, grateful, and proud that women have come so far since. For me, personally, the title means so much more than progress in things like appliances, it means progress in society. I feel the same when I hear the song.
Tearing it down or replacing it with women in a new role would not change the history of what it was like for women at that time, all it does is hide it, which imo is a disservice to everyone. We don’t need to forget what happened in the past, take down all reminders of this country’s complicated past, banish it all to museums.. let people see, let people discuss when discussion isn’t expected. What was is not what is now. We all know that.

 

[Matt_Black]

No one is saying those guys were right, but since it features that, let me ask you, should we bury that film?

No, because the film goes on to show that that sort of think, that patronizing attitude, is wrong and harmful.

One can say that the brothers didn't even actively DO anything wrong. There was no legal documentation at that point, just a verbal agreement, and someone came along and offered them more money. The issue wasn't their actions but their motivations.

Here's another example of subtle racism. In a creative writing course, I wrote a story with teen superheroes for the class to read and critique. I had done a story with the same characters before, and I had many of the same classmates, so I did a sequel.

One of the characters in the first story was a martial artist character of Asian descent. I had initially put him in there without thinking of the implications, because that's a very common character type in popular media, which in no way excuses the stereotyping. Recognizing that, I saw that as a writing challenge to move him beyond a stereotype and make him more of a well-rounded character.

So, anyway, he gives another character some advice, in the form of a story. When finished, the second character asks if that was some kind of Buddhist parable.

"No, I read that on some girl's blog."

The class, including the teacher, HATED that line. Because it subverted the trope and stereotype that had been so ingrained into popular consciousness. The loved the character, loved his background, loved him dispensing wisdom, but they didn't like the idea that he was more than what they were expecting.

 

[celluloid]

No, because the film goes on to show that that sort of think, that patronizing attitude, is wrong and harmful.

One can say that the brothers didn't even actively DO anything wrong. There was no legal documentation at that point, just a verbal agreement, and someone came along and offered them more money. The issue wasn't their actions but their motivations.

Here's another example of subtle racism. In a creative writing course, I wrote a story with teen superheroes for the class to read and critique. I had done a story with the same characters before, and I had many of the same classmates, so I did a sequel.

One of the characters in the first story was a martial artist character of Asian descent. I had initially put him in there without thinking of the implications, because that's a very common character type in popular media, which in no way excuses the stereotyping. Recognizing that, I saw that as a writing challenge to move him beyond a stereotype and make him more of a well-rounded character.

So, anyway, he gives another character some advice, in the form of a story. When finished, the second character asks if that was some kind of Buddhist parable.

"No, I read that on some girl's blog."

The class, including the teacher, HATED that line. Because it subverted the trope and stereotype that had been so ingrained into popular consciousness. The loved the character, loved his background, loved him dispensing wisdom, but they didn't like the idea that he was more than what they were expecting.

In creative writing class you probably know one of the most important rules when workshopping.
If someone tells you something is wrong with your story, they are probably right, what they tell you to change however is probably wrong.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Yeah! A real black princess would probably face racism and economical inequality while watching her white contemporaries luxuriate in privilege. She would suffer for her dreams, leading her to get into a mindset of focus on work and forgoing recreation, camaraderie, and even love.

Unfortunately, Princess and the Frog lacked any such depth and Tiana just turned into a frog.



The reasoning isn't "Let's throw a Black girl on it to prove we're woke." Splash Mountain takes place in the American South and features a cast of singing animals. Princess and the Frog takes place in the American South and a huge chunk of the cast is, for at least a portion of the film, animals. Double whammy for it taking place in New Orleans given the Disneyland placement. The fact of the matter is that the Magic Kingdom placement of Splash Mountain has NEVER made sense and threw off the initial theming thread of going old-moden and East-West from the Mansion to Pecos Bill's. I think that Tiana being black is gravy in their minds because even if she was white the property would have been the switch that made the most sense.

Plus you just know the Mardi Gras celebration is going to take place on the big riverboat in the finale. Heck, all they have to do is put Louis on there, and it's set

 

[Kate F]

While some fans have slipped over to the “I guess I’ll just cope with it” side, I’m gonna keep sticking up for my Mountain no matter how much I get shot down. I’m not giving up.

 

[celluloid]

While some fans have slipped over to the “I guess I’ll just cope with it” side, I’m gonna keep sticking up for my Mountain no matter how much I get shot down. I’m not giving up.

Carosuel of Progress will be next anyway because of the non diverse family and if people actually do the research, the Al Jolson reference.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Even ignoring the slavery/ Reconstruction portions, the movie isn't even ABOUT Uncle Remus. His main narrative focus in the film is to make a little white kid feel better about himself. He doesn't have any goals of his own. That's a continuing trope in American fiction that has been often criticized.

I actually saw him more as a father-figure-stand-in since dad left (and don't get me started on mom!) Really, Uncle Remus and the two kids are the only people in the movie with heads put on straight.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Tiki Room portrays natives and colonialism. People say it in tweets here. AK and AKL, same reason why people hate Ringling Brothers and Seaworld. They hold animals captive. CoP because of not enough mention of women's rights and only portraying Sarah as only a house wife. Other threads on here have mentioned why but I'm trying to find the exact quotes but its too many pages. Monster's Inc singles out guests as "that guy" and poking fun at guests' expense.

You could also add Hoop De Doo and the Liberty Bell.

Sarah goes from laundry-wife to sewing-wife to refurbish-wife to computer-wife (and for all we know, she makes the money) Dad is the one that really get stereotyped going from father-the-master to father-the-master to father-the-breadwinner-master to inept-chef.