Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I was there. I would say 70% of the crowd last night were just the CPs that had their program come to an end. Most of them would’ve been working somewhere in the parks anyhow, but took it off to have one last hurrah. Nowhere near massive crowds, just a whole lot of very sad CPs saying their goodbye to all the friends they made and a whole lot of rides running at VERY limited capacity because there was hardly anyone there to staff them.

Oh, and before anyone lambasts me for going last night... I don’t care what you have to say. I know my situation. I took the necessary precautions.

Not lambasting, just sharing my opinion. If the parks were closed nobody would have been in the parks working either. That wasn’t your call. The company botched that one. It really doesn’t matter if the crowd was CPs or tourists from Ohio and it doesn’t matter if people gathered at a theme park or a bar or at a large party. A crowd is a crowd and if someone ends up infected and then goes back home it’s more spread. I get that people are disappointed and sad but this is an unprecedented time. We all need to do our parts. Everyone is sacrificing something.

 

[RobWDW1971]

What you're saying would make sense if the reaction were limited to social media. But it isn't. It's being spearheaded by experts, health officials, and governments. I don't think I've ever seen the world's leaders this united over anything. That should tell us something.

If you don't believe social media is driving misinformation and hysteria, apparently you haven't gone toilet paper shopping recently.

Again, I am simply sharing the actual data gathered by the WHO and CDC. The numbers are the numbers.

 

[NickMaio]

Wall Street investment banking

That is brutal he was let go.
You know wall street will be the first to get Federal money.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes, lots of older folks and those infirmed would die but the price that is going to be paid by all those under 60 is too high.

This is such a depressing and infuriating sentiment to read.

 

[LittleBuford]

If you don't believe social media is driving misinformation and hysteria, apparently you haven't gone toilet paper shopping recently.

Indeed I haven't. And yet you still accused me of panicking and being scared, when all I've done is repeat what the experts are telling us.

 

[celluloid]

The other reason to be tested is that in case you're a carrier who has none or mild symptoms, you can quarantine yourself and not spread the disease to loved ones and others.

right, but you see the issue there right? You went out during this time instead of social distancing to risk others. If you have social distances and have no symptoms, you are very unlikely to have it. More risk to go to interact and get tested and block people with actual immediate concern s and keeping doctors from other patients or risk spreading it to them.

 

[DCBaker]

This is such a depressing and infuriating sentiment to read.

Yes, lots of older folks and those infirmed would die but the price that is going to be paid by all those under 60 is too high.

There are not extensive details yet, but this isn't an "over 60" deal everywhere.

"More than half of the 300 people in intensive care units in France with the new virus are under 60.

The head of the national health agency, Jerome Salomon, announced the statistic Saturday night as France saw another jump in new virus cases."

The Latest: Most French ICU patients with virus under 60

The Latest on the world’s coronavirus pandemic, which has infected more than 150,000 people and killed over 5,700. The disease for most people causes only mild or moderate symptoms. For some, it ca…

www.kron4.com

 

[GoofGoof]

I just think this is a very different social climate - this is our first social media "emergency". Think back to those previous viruses - we got our information in newspapers, nightly news broadcasts, and CNN. We didn't live in this insane social media echo chamber. Millions of people were infected with the Swine Flu and it attacked young people back in 2009, but we didn't have this social media dynamic like we have today as Twitter was in its infancy, etc.

You're absolutely right we will never be able to compare the "what if we didn't do anything" scenario because we have no control case.

That's why I always go back to what is an acceptable fatality rate/number of elderly/pre-existing condition deaths? If the flu kills 40K+ a year and this also kills 40K, is that good? Bad? Was it worth shutting down the entire economy for it?

That is what will be the interesting legacy of this going forward.

Social media is bad in so many ways. It certainly was a big cause of panic buying and runs on TP. It has also resulted in a lot of misinformation getting out. For some reason when a lot of people hear something on Facebook or Twitter they hang onto it and even refuse to listen when a reputable source debunks the story. I don't think that’s the case here. This is happening world wide at every level of government and society. It’s a lot more than just social media hysteria.

In answer to the legacy for the future I would hope this leads to an increase in available ICU beds, ventilators and other equipment. At the state and local level there should be much better protocols in place for testing, isolation and quarantine when necessary. They should be able to immediately activate testing centers and ramp up quickly. At the federal level we should have a high level position that is in charge of coordinating response to a situation like this. I know there was one in the past, that needs to be back. I don’t think we need to panic if this happens again. If anything people should know exactly how to respond.

 

[hopemax]

I was really hoping for more than that.

I look at the images and I don’t see where these trenches for mass graves have been dug.
Can someone please point them out to me?

I don't know how to read satellite images but... For more context, Iranian media has seen the graves, government officials in Qom said, in advance (February 29th) they were digging the graves. Apparently, Islam custom is for burial within 24 hours and given the situation the ability for traditional burials is disrupted. These are not the "secret graves" that we learn about after genocide, but indications that the number of deaths exceeds the "official numbers" and the regional government was being proactive in their preparation.

 

[RobWDW1971]

This is such a depressing and infuriating sentiment to read.

Why? There are always societal trade offs. There is every day.

So if I told you we had a choice of one elderly person with pre-existing conditions would have to die (for example, let's say 85 year old man with terrible respiratory issues in a nursing home) OR the economy would shed trillions of dollars, thousands would lose their jobs, and the country would be plunged into a depresssion, would you save that man?

If so, then at least your position is one of purity, but certainly not pragmatism.

If you would chose to let him die, then it is simply a personal calculation of how many is your personal threshold. Are we willing to let 1,000 die, 20,000 die, similar to the flu 40,000 die? These are all real, even if unpleasant, real life decisions we as a society have to make.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not sure if this was already posted or really adds much:

Disney World Criticized for Staying Open Through the Weekend

Disney World in Florida has been hit with a backlash over its decision to keep the theme park open on Sunday night.

variety.com

 

[DCBaker]

"The Peace Corps is for the first time in its history halting its operations globally and evacuating all of its volunteers, a drastic step for the small U.S. agency that shows the knock-on effects of the global coronavirus pandemic even in developing countries still untouched by the outbreak."

In Historic First, Peace Corps to Evacuate Volunteers Worldwide Amid Pandemic

The U.S. agency announced it was suspending operations globally and recalling volunteers for their safety as the outbreak spread.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[LittleBuford]

There are not extensive details yet, but this isn't an "over 60" deal everywhere.

"More than half of the 300 people in intensive care units in France with the new virus are under 60.

The head of the national health agency, Jerome Salomon, announced the statistic Saturday night as France saw another jump in new virus cases."

The Latest: Most French ICU patients with virus under 60

The Latest on the world’s coronavirus pandemic, which has infected more than 150,000 people and killed over 5,700. The disease for most people causes only mild or moderate symptoms. For some, it ca…

www.kron4.com

Regardless of the age of those affected by the virus, I wish people would get it through their skulls that the real issue is the healthcare system as a whole.

 

[disneygeek90]

In what seems to now be hourly notifications of cancellations and closures, Regal theaters nationwide will be closing beginning tomorrow.

 

[LittleBuford]

Why? There are always societal trade offs. There is every day.

So if I told you we had a choice of one elderly person with pre-existing conditions would have to die (for example, let's say 85 year old man with terrible respiratory issues in a nursing home) OR the economy would shed trillions of dollars, thousands would lose their jobs, and the country would be plunged into a depresssion, would you save that man?

If so, then at least your position is one of purity, but certainly not pragmatism.

If you would chose to let him die, then it is simply a personal calculation of how many is your personal threshold. Are we willing to let 1,000 die, 20,000 die, similar to the flu 40,000 die? These are all real, even if unpleasant, real life decisions we as a society have to make.

The interesting rhetorical question is, would you have a functional economy left if you had a completely non-functional health care system?

You're posing a false dichotomy. Letting the virus run its course could be just as detrimental to the economy, quite apart from the cost to human lives.

 

[Isher]

I don't know how to read satellite images but... For more context, Iranian media has seen the graves, government officials in Qom said, in advance (February 29th) they were digging the graves. Apparently, Islam custom is for burial within 24 hours and given the situation the ability for traditional burials is disrupted. These are not the "secret graves" that we learn about after genocide, but indications that the number of deaths exceeds the "official numbers" and the regional government was being proactive in their preparation.

Okay, thanks for responding. I’ve also have read the same thing and understood it as you did. I’m just needing someone to point out on the images where these trenches are. I keep reading on this forum of “mass graves that can be seen from space”. I’m just wondering where they are on the images.

 

[hopemax]

54% of small business owners are over age 50. The average age of CEOs is 59. The average age of CFOs is 56. In this plan to "just let it run it's course," either these people will get sick or have to remove themselves from the day-to-day operations of their businesses (good luck on that), and many would die, how does that avoid "economic disruption?" Many of these people, due to the stress and lifestyle of running a business have "pre-existing conditions" that would leave themselves vulnerable.

Some of you gotta get this image out of your head that the old people, are all tottering, feeble, half senile or all senile octogenarians. And therefore expendable.

 

[Isher]

54% of small business owners are over age 50. The average age of CEOs is 59. The average age of CFOs is 56. In this plan to "just let it run it's course," either these people will get sick or have to remove themselves from the day-to-day operations of their businesses (good luck on that), and many would die, how does that avoid "economic disruption?" Many of these people, due to the stress and lifestyle of running a business have "pre-existing conditions" that would leave themselves vulnerable.

Some of you gotta this image out of your head that the old people, are all tottering, feeble, half senile or all senile octogenarians. And therefore expendable.

I had it in my head that old people run the world and that’s why it’s lockdown.

 

[hopemax]

Okay, thanks for responding. I’ve also have read the same thing and understood it as you did. I’m just needing someone to point out on the images where these trenches are. I keep reading on this forum of “mass graves that can be seen from space”. I’m just wondering where they are on the images.

This image has things marked.

 

[RobWDW1971]

You're posing a false dichotomy. Letting the virus run its course also risks wrecking the economy, quite apart from the cost in human lives.

So I'm putting you down as "refuse to answer" on that one. Thanks. Note for record, I pulled the plug and saved the economy.

Regarding the economy, one option is to knowingly and purposely destroy the economy (which we are intentionally doing right now and witnessing it before our eyes) and one is a theoretical "risk of potentially" wrecking the economy. Two very different cases. This could be the definition of "killing a fly with a sledgehammer".

Now, if you told me the plan was to quarantine those who are disproportionately impacted (elderly and those pre-existing conditions) and we spent all of our energy servicing those people in their quarantine - healthcare, meals on wheels, etc. then you are actually having the actions deal with the problem.