Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[RobWDW1971]

The majority of cases are in Italy's rich north. Why are you bringing Sicily and Naples into it?

Uh....Because I was responding to a post about a Wiki article about Italy's healthcare system which last time I checked includes Sicily and Naples.

 

[invader]

I’ve seen pictures of MK crowds on my twitter feed. I’ve seen multiple people I know enjoying their day at Disney on Snapchat.

I can’t believe how low of a social conscience people have. GO HOME & SIT IN YOUR HOUSE.

 

[LittleBuford]

Uh....Because I was responding to a post about a Wiki article about Italy's healthcare system which last time I checked includes Sicily and Naples.

The point is that you're dismissing Italy's crisis as a result of its supposedly shoddy healthcare system. Not only does this fly in the face of expert opinion, but it also ignores the fact that hospitals in the country's rich north are also over-expended.

 

[GoofGoof]

ok so meaning it was their first draft not taking in to consideration what is going on presently?

The bill addressed the basic needs upfront. Getting 2 weeks paid sick time for workers who test positive and getting money to state Medicaid systems to cover the cost of ramping up free testing and care for the infected. This wasn’t an economic stimulus so didn’t address more long term economic impacts. There was something in there about exempting companies with over 500 employee so not sure how much applies to Disney but they are paying CMs anyway so maybe not relevant anyway.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I’ve seen pictures of MK crowds on my twitter feed. I’ve seen multiple people I know enjoying their day at Disney on Snapchat.

I can’t believe how low of a social conscience people have. GO HOME & SIT IN YOUR HOUSE.

Hey, at least they aren’t “hysterical” with coronavirus fear!

 

[DisneyCane]

My agenda is to force the people making these decisions to justify them with data that they present in the open. They need to justify shutting down the economy and doing damage to the quality of life for billions of people by doing so. The economic ramifications are going to be severe and long lasting. Taking actions that lead to that outcome need to be accompanied by fact based projections, not worst case scenario theoretical studies.

We shouldn't be told to just shut up and listen because "they" know best.

That is my "agenda." Show me real data that can actually project hospital bed needs and ventilator needs. If it justifies the concerns then I can accept the actions taken.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Um, no. My agenda is to force the people making these decisions to justify them with data that they present in the open. They need to justify shutting down the economy and doing damage to the quality of life for billions of people by doing so. The economic ramifications are going to be severe and long lasting. Taking actions that lead to that outcome need to be accompanied by fact based projections, not worst case scenario theoretical studies.

We shouldn't be told to just shut up and listen because "they" know best.

That is my "agenda." Show me real data that can actually project hospital bed needs and ventilator needs. If it justifies the concerns then I can accept the actions taken.

Ask the VP because none of us are giving you these answers. Ask him to get the tests. Ask our elected officials. Don’t keep telling us to give you the facts. And it’s getting truly annoying to read these requests ad nauseum. You’re speaking to an audience of 5 and aren’t getting anywhere.

 

[DisneyCane]

ok so meaning it was their first draft not taking in to consideration what is going on presently?

Not really first draft. More like first book in a series. Believe me, especially being an election year, more money will be thrown at this than you can imagine.

 

[21stamps]

Even if that exact info isn’t made public how can you guys be so sure nobody has it. People whose job it is to handle these situations have a lot more info than we do. You are assuming the numbers are much better than discussed publicly and this is all an overreaction, but what If you are wrong and the numbers are actually way worse. It might then be irresponsible for the government to share that info with the public and create an even bigger panic, but would explain all of the moves being made.

This is the United States of America. We do not hide this kind of info from the public. We are not China.

They are publishing some data.. but it’s not enough for the public to go off of.. they owe us a legitimate explanation, backed by facts, when imposing the measures that have been imposed on us the past several days.

As DisneyCane said, why isn’t the media questioning it? Demanding the data??
That’s their role, to inform the public.

 

[DisneyCane]

Ask the VP because none of us are giving you these answers. Ask him to get the tests. Ask our elected officials. Don’t keep telling us to give you the facts. And it’s getting truly annoying to read these requests ad nauseum. You’re speaking to an audience of 5 and aren’t getting anywhere.

My audience is more than 5. Maybe somebody on here knows a media member that can actually ask Pence. I'll tweet him but highly doubt I'll get a response.

 

[Parker in NYC]

My audience is more than 5. Maybe somebody on here knows a media member that can actually ask Pence. I'll tweet him but highly doubt I'll get a response.

I don’t know, all of the sudden we have engineers, medical professionals, analysts, political something-or-others here. If someone here can’t throw you a bone, I’d be stunned.

 

[The_Jobu]

Uh....Because I was responding to a post about a Wiki article about Italy's healthcare system which last time I checked includes Sicily and Naples.

I think you’re being a bit unfair. Do you judge American health care by the breakthroughs coming out of Mississippi? Some areas are rural, yes, just like every other country. The medical infrastructure is extremely well developed.

 

[GoofGoof]

Um, no. My agenda is to force the people making these decisions to justify them with data that they present in the open. They need to justify shutting down the economy and doing damage to the quality of life for billions of people by doing so. The economic ramifications are going to be severe and long lasting. Taking actions that lead to that outcome need to be accompanied by fact based projections, not worst case scenario theoretical studies.

We shouldn't be told to just shut up and listen because "they" know best.

That is my "agenda." Show me real data that can actually project hospital bed needs and ventilator needs. If it justifies the concerns then I can accept the actions taken.

That’s fair enough but it’s just not how things work. There are plenty of examples when the government needs to take action without presenting all of the facts or evidence publicly. It’s not just government officials though for this. It’s health experts, epidemiologist, lifetime CDC and department of health officials who aren’t political. It’s also governors from both parties in over half the states now too. There could be some monkey see monkey do with decisions but it’s hard for me to believe all of these people are either misinformed or colluding together. I also have not seen any reports from any reputable sources disputing the talking point on lack of icu capacity and ventilators. If the info was wrong wouldn’t somebody (outside of this forum or facebook) be jumping up and down talking about it. I admit I haven’t tuned in to “mother ship” lately to see what the dialog is like there, but last time I checked they weren’t even talking that way.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is the United States of America. We do not hide this kind of info from the public. We are not China.

They are publishing some data.. but it’s not enough for the public to go off of.. they owe us a legitimate explanation, backed by facts, when imposing the measures that have been imposed on us the past several days.

As DisneyCane said, why isn’t the media questioning it? Demanding the data??
That’s their role, to inform the public.

See my answer above. I’m not even saying you guys are wrong or not entitled to an alternate opinion, just that I’m not seeing any reason to believe everyone else is wrong.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Considering how this thread is now a sort of portal to other parts of the site, I thought I’d perform a requisite posting ritual.

 

[DisneyCane]

That’s fair enough but it’s just not how things work. There are plenty of examples when the government needs to take action without presenting all of the facts or evidence publicly. It’s not just government officials though for this. It’s health experts, epidemiologist, lifetime CDC and department of health officials who aren’t political. It’s also governors from both parties in over half the states now too. There could be some monkey see monkey do with decisions but it’s hard for me to believe all of these people are either misinformed or colluding together. I also have not seen any reports from any reputable sources disputing the talking point on lack of icu capacity and ventilators. If the info was wrong wouldn’t somebody (outside of this forum or facebook) be jumping up and down talking about it. I admit I haven’t tuned in to “mother ship” lately to see what the dialog is like there, but last time I checked they weren’t even talking that way.

Normally when governments take action it doesn't involve shutting down the economy and negatively effecting hundreds of millions of people. Therefore, the standard should be higher.

The Governors are all reacting the same because they are politicians and don't want to be criticized as not caring about "saving lives."

I also think people put too much faith into the "experts." Since the task force started, even the great guru Dr. Fauci has contradicted himself more than once.

People like him are having their moment in the sun. If you don't think that part of them is enjoying the power trip I've got land in the Everglades to sell you.

 

[hopemax]

Genuine question why would we want health information from the CDC to be routed to politicians rather than directly from experts, who have no stake?

Didn't you get last month's memo that this is all a media driven, political conspiracy? Preaching to the choir, here. Today's memo seems to be we don't have the info driven down 20 different levels, when we are 10% through how this is going to play out.

I have been following Seattle, because that's "home." I grew up in Washington, went to UW, lived in Seattle for the first couple of years after college etc. Many news articles and State Health Department statements reference modeling done by Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Institute of Disease Modeling, which is located in Bellevue (I know, a bunch of agenda driven liberal hacks). I believe that the local hospitals are coordinating with local and federal governments and the people who NEED to know how many ICU beds are full and ventilators are used, do have this information. I believe the farther we get down the road, there will be more pivoting in the media to this type of information. But since it's not sexy enough yet (a horrible way to describe it), we wait while they focus on today's closures. I have seen some hospital personnel share this info for their location (I believe they are freely sharing because, they are at this moment under the breaking point.). Every medical research institute in the world will be studying this over the next decade. And the next 25 years of masters theses and phD dissertations in epidemology, genetics, infectious diseases, public policy, and a dozen other disciplines will be dissecting this information. Everyone will have all the info they want, when the final numbers are in. But by then, I doubt they will care. I swear it's like some people want instant updates like all the lifestyle bloggers, people love to hate, provide for WDW.

As for Florida, from a SF Sun Sentinel article:

"Florida recently began tracking its intensive care unit beds through a statewide Emergency Status System. Of the state’s 210 hospitals and 21 long-term care facilities that have reported so far, and factoring in the 12 hospitals that have not reported, there are roughly 6,000 to 7,000 ICU beds for adult patients. That works out to one ICU bed for every 3,000 people in Florida. "

Yes, I know it doesn't say how many are filled. But again, we're early in this process. The people who need to know, know. There is a website with a login page, but not for regular folks to use. And if regular people need to see the ICU's filled before they start taking this seriously, it's too late. As people keep pointing out, today's numbers tell the story of what happened 10 days ago.

 

[celluloid]

people in their 20s today don't even remember how bad the economy after 9/11 got. Consider that and be patient and kind, but realistic.

 

[larryz]

It's clear to me that many people here need to step away from their computers and watch a comedy on TV.

 

[DisneyCane]

Didn't you get last month's memo that this is all a media driven, political conspiracy? Preaching to the choir, here. Today's memo seems to be we don't have the info driven down 20 different levels, when we are 10% through how this is going to play out.

I have been following Seattle, because that's "home." I grew up in Washington, went to UW, lived in Seattle for the first couple of years after college etc. Many news articles and State Health Department statements reference modeling done by Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Institute of Disease Modeling, which is located in Bellevue (I know, a bunch of agenda driven liberal hacks). I believe that the local hospitals are coordinating with local and federal governments and the people who NEED to know how many ICU beds are full and ventilators are used, do have this information. I believe the farther we get down the road, there will be more pivoting in the media to this type of information. But since it's not sexy enough yet (a horrible way to describe it), we wait while they focus on today's closures. I have seen some hospital personnel share this info for their location (I believe they are freely sharing because, they are at this moment under the breaking point.). Every medical research institute in the world will be studying this over the next decade. And the next 25 years of masters theses and phD dissertations in epidemology, genetics, infectious diseases, public policy, and a dozen other disciplines will be dissecting this information. Everyone will have all the info they want, when the final numbers are in. But by then, I doubt they will care. I swear it's like some people want instant updates like all the lifestyle bloggers, people love to hate, provide for WDW.

As for Florida, from a SF Sun Sentinel article:

"Florida recently began tracking its intensive care unit beds through a statewide Emergency Status System. Of the state’s 210 hospitals and 21 long-term care facilities that have reported so far, and factoring in the 12 hospitals that have not reported, there are roughly 6,000 to 7,000 ICU beds for adult patients. That works out to one ICU bed for every 3,000 people in Florida. "

Yes, I know it doesn't say how many are filled. But again, we're early in this process. The people who need to know, know. There is a website with a login page, but not for regular folks to use. And if regular people need to see the ICU's filled before they start taking this seriously, it's too late. As people keep pointing out, today's numbers tell the story of what happened 10 days ago.

What we need to know is how many of the 136 positive patients in Florida found so far have needed hospitalization and/or ventilation. That number will allow for some kind of educated projection of how many beds are needed as the number of infections grow.