Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Chapek?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Who should be excluded to help with the overcrowding problem.
- Thread starter hsisthebest
- Start date
larryz
I'm Just A Tourist!
Worse. We already have one of those, and people keep coming.
Parker in NYC
Well-Known Member
I think that in today's world, a wall-to-wall crowd at Disney is like a standing ovation on Broadway. They happen every time. And if they don't happen, something is wrong. But this is the new normal because everything can't/shouldn't always be crowded. Every performance doesn't deserve a standing ovation. I chalk it up to Instagram/social media and the prices you're paying. If you don't document your day, does it make a sound? If you aren't surrounded by the masses sharing a once-in-a-lifetime experience (that happens 365 days a year), how are you even alive if you are indeed paying so much money? Disney knows this and they love it. They love it more because high-demand experiences shared on social media 24/7 mean they can raise prices which means people need to get on every ride, eat the latest Instagram treats, and tell their friends how crowded it is and what tips they can use to make their trips worth it. It's not a vacation anymore, it's an obstacle course! And don't believe anyone who says that it was just as difficult to plan a trip ten years ago as it is now. Park commando tactics in days of yore are as adorable now as your kid's first handmade valentine. Add in Passholder and DVC and you have a lot of people who have invested a lot of money and expect more. And why not? But they're still going and they're still waiting in those lines.
There's also that vacation mentality that I'm sure many have but won't admit to - even those of us who return ad nauseum. What's another $50 on this or that? I just spent $2000 to get here. Another $120? No big whoop. $199, that's pushing it but who knows if this will be around next time. It's akin to being offered a paid "discount" upgrade at a resort, for just $140 more a night. Yeah, of course! Sign me up.
Nothing will change. When there's a shift in the economy, things will dip but when they come back up, it'll be higher than before. But it doesn't mean that it isn't RIDICULOUS.
There's also that vacation mentality that I'm sure many have but won't admit to - even those of us who return ad nauseum. What's another $50 on this or that? I just spent $2000 to get here. Another $120? No big whoop. $199, that's pushing it but who knows if this will be around next time. It's akin to being offered a paid "discount" upgrade at a resort, for just $140 more a night. Yeah, of course! Sign me up.
Nothing will change. When there's a shift in the economy, things will dip but when they come back up, it'll be higher than before. But it doesn't mean that it isn't RIDICULOUS.
jaklgreen
Well-Known Member
I don't think all of it is an issue with the amount of staff but the allocation of them. I just got back, and saw several times where cast members where milling about. 1 example is at AK, Kali River Rapids is down for the season, but they had 4 cast members standing guard at the closed entrance, all just chit chatting. I can see 1 or 2 to answer questions and to keep people from hopping the line, but 4 was unnecessary. Also, the amount of cast members that were behind the front desk at ASMo that were standing about talking, and not helping the long line, was unacceptable. I had to go up to the front desk several times do to issues, and saw this every time. I have noticed this trend over the last few years that many of the cast members stand around and talk or are on their phones where you would not have seen that before.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I would argue that Chapek could be classified as a “dangerous incendiary device”
...what?
Too soon?
...what?
Too soon?
And the Irish.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
jloucks
Well-Known Member
The thing is it would increase attendance because thousands of people (like me) that have been avoiding the overcrowded parks would return to use the fresh supply of park and clog up the parks again. Crowd levels (supply) are a (huge?) controller of demand. Lower crowds, and demand increases. ...until it gets crowded again. It is a vicious cycle.
The best example of this is how freeways work. You wind up with congestion, so you add 2 more lanes. Then what happens? You get less congestion for a while, until people discover the new road, and fill it up again. This can be simple rerouting, or building new homes next to the nice open freeway. Doesn't stay open for long.
An unpopular option of mine is that WDW should have flexible pricing. That is, holiday weekends prices are 3x higher than normal. It is not an unheard of concept, the airlines and cruise-lines, and tons of other operations do this. That would even out crowds and maybe help.
Maybe.
But even then I suspect induced demand would kick in.
The only way to lower demand/crowds is increase price. No amount of expanding park capacity or building new parks is going to help with a global destination.
Ok. ok. fine, yea, there is probably some level, maybe 20-50 gates would do it. There are 7.5 billion people that would like to go to WDW given a chance. At some point, supply would meet that demand.
Fun with math,,, probably just ignore this fairly ridiculous part unless fun & math are a phrase you are comfortable with...
...and possible calculation errors... no quoting me....
So with MK, AK, EP, HS and an annual attendance of 52,000,000 we have 142,465 people a day, on average at WDW.
The world has a pop of 7.5 billion, if they all went one day per year, would mean 20m people a day at the parks.
If 4 gates handle 142,465 people, that means one gate handles 35,616 people.
So to handle 20 million people a day, you would need 577 gates. Sheesh, thats a lotta gates.
That assumes free park admission, transportation, and that 100% of everybody on the planet wants to go.
Add in prices/costs and demand plummets.
Which, is the exact situation in reality.
Price is the main thing controlling the global demand. All demand. Sure there are other controllers, like global health levels and preferences, but overall, we are talking price.
...unless you build 577 parks.
OneofThree
Well-Known Member
Your post is an indictment on WDW's customer base. I agree. I tolerated it for some time, but cancelled our 7 AP's last year. Enough is enough. They're certainly not giving me price, and the value proposition has lost a lot of luster given the "new normal" you describe. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy some Disney stock, because the supply of those willing to pay more for less seems endless.
Last edited:
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Continuing to increase costs to the guest (should in theory) reduce crowds over time I think. As the costs go up, more and more folks are priced out and either can’t visit or must space out their visits in order to save up.
It costs Disney nothing to do this and makes them (maybe more money) serving LESS guests.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Just in DHS alone they added 4 new attraction in the back corner where only the car show, city street facade and the long dead Backlot once stood. Epcot is adding the Rat, MK is adding Tron, and DAK just added two attractions along with the highly detailed spectacular Pandora. We seem to lose sight of that because we only concentrate on the replacements. However, even then, if it replaces a relatively unpopular attraction with something new it is still a net gain in capacity. Even Soarin was a massive addition when compared to what it displaced. They still have a lot of room to expand in all the parks and if all the current changes pay off there will be more.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Well, that would be a win win for Disney. What does the general public, that also enjoys Disney, gain? A ticket to stay home. That seems to have left a large portion of the Disney fans all dressed up with no place to go. It may be a solution of sorts, but it is not a good solution for those left out.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The whole reason small dark rides have become a niche product is because their traditional small scale is not marketable to drive increases in visitation. They don’t induce demand. There are also all of the other aspects of capacity that has been strained. Another burger venue isn’t going to create demand. The parks aren’t lacking in capacity because keeping up became a fool’s errand but because for over 20 years now leadership of the parks has been based on the Pressler model where all focus is on revenue generating capability of every square foot. Attractions don’t directly generate revenue and have significant costs, so Disney has instead expended considerable effort to try and not build attractions.The thing is it would increase attendance because thousands of people (like me) that have been avoiding the overcrowded parks would return to use the fresh supply of park and clog up the parks again. Crowd levels (supply) are a (huge?) controller of demand. Lower crowds, and demand increases. ...until it gets crowded again. It is a vicious cycle.
The best example of this is how freeways work. You wind up with congestion, so you add 2 more lanes. Then what happens? You get less congestion for a while, until people discover the new road, and fill it up again. This can be simple rerouting, or building new homes next to the nice open freeway. Doesn't stay open for long.
An unpopular option of mine is that WDW should have flexible pricing. That is, holiday weekends prices are 3x higher than normal. It is not an unheard of concept, the airlines and cruise-lines, and tons of other operations do this. That would even out crowds and maybe help.
Maybe.
But even then I suspect induced demand would kick in.
The only way to lower demand/crowds is increase price. No amount of expanding park capacity or building new parks is going to help with a global destination.
Ok. ok. fine, yea, there is probably some level, maybe 20-50 gates would do it. There are 7.5 billion people that would like to go to WDW given a chance. At some point, supply would meet that demand.
Fun with math,,, probably just ignore this fairly ridiculous part unless fun & math are a phrase you are comfortable with...
...and possible calculation errors... no quoting me....
So with MK, AK, EP, HS and an annual attendance of 52,000,000 we have 142,465 people a day, on average at WDW.
The world has a pop of 7.5 billion, if they all went one day per year, would mean 20m people a day at the parks.
If 4 gates handle 142,465 people, that means one gate handles 35,616 people.
So to handle 20 million people a day, you would need 577 gates. Sheesh, thats a lotta gates.
That assumes free park admission, transportation, and that 100% of everybody on the planet wants to go.
Add in prices/costs and demand plummets.
Which, is the exact situation in reality.
Price is the main thing controlling the global demand. All demand. Sure there are other controllers, like global health levels and preferences, but overall, we are talking price.
...unless you build 577 parks.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
Especially since they don't have any problem with demand for existing old attractions. In fact, you could argue that adding any new attractions would be bad as that would just create more demand for limited supply.
jaklgreen
Well-Known Member
Don't forget about the new Mary Poppins attraction in the UK and some kind of Moana experience.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Old attractions don’t have a problem because the parks are severely lacking in capacity. You build small attractions and experiences that do not create significant additional demand so that people have a variety of things available.
Since it's obvious Disney is in the resort/time share business primarily in Florida and not theme park, Disney could eliminate theme park tickets and access to the parks is granted during length of stay at their property only. Under this model, the only way to an AP is with Florida residency. Everybody else needs a room reservation.
Trackmaster
Well-Known Member
Ironically, I think Disney works better when you're a local than when you're a tourist. I'm only stopping in for 4-5 hours or less, and then I go home or stay with a friend who lives nearby. I may buy a meal every now and then, but I don't really spend that much money at the parks. I don't dispute that Disney gets huge crowds, but it seems like when I go they're reasonable or the park isn't crowded at all (I do about 20 visits a year between the four parks). I consider what's going on at the park, I look at crowd calender's, and I peer into how competitive the FP+'s are looking. I only go if I have a FP+ line-up I like, and almost everything is on FP+. I just have a different experience than most. I'm mostly about the major rides, and not as into the slower touristy stuff. I also think that going in the evenings and staying late helps avoid the crowds. Its not like a normal park where you want to rope drop it. Disney starts out very fast and very crowded, and tapers off by the end of the day.
here ya go
