A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Gamergate played such a massive role in this, yet it has gone unacknowledged.
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I disagree with that premise on even the most basic level ("GamerGate" has become a convenient boogeyman), but for the sake of argument, ignoring that - so what?

If the thing that upsets you is where the spark came from, then I think you may be missing the lesson this situation is trying to teach about the world we have created via social media.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
LSLS said:
So, you are correct, not how I understand it at all. According to this, that is not how it happened. At 7AM, Chelsea Clinton responded, at the same time it was blowing up twitter. She was tweeting conspiracies at 9:30 Eastern. 10 Eastern, executives were discussing. 10:30, she apologized (not talking about times, time zone differences can make up for those things). Then later that night, in between apologies, she was retweeting that the liberal media was out to get her.

CNN Money Source
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The thing that needs to be separated are the retweets versus the tweets. Her actual tweets were entirely apologetic, and took full responsibility. That said, she did re-tweet a lot of things people sent her in support (though even then she issued one of her actual tweets saying for people to not defend her), which was clearly a mistake, because all it did was muddy the waters and the media reporting on it has failed to make these distinctions.
 
asianway

asianway

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
I've been following it, too, and they are talking something like 300 celebrity/entertainment folks Twitter feeds have been preserved and processed "so far" - so deleting the tweets won't help.

And being absolutely fair - the "far left" has had their own list, as well. If I had a nickel for each time I read some variation "We did it! Another one knocked off! Who's next?" after Roseanne was fired, I'd have enough to buy an annual pass to Disney this year. Hell, even celebrities like Debra Messing were openly admitting in tweets how "relieved" they were to be rid of her (and in Messing's case I couldn't help but also hear a "good because her rebooted show did 4x better than ours did, but that is another topic, LOL).

The only bright spot to any of this is that it does seem that people are finally waking up to how destructive social media has become - but I see so many trying to separate this like it is some anomaly because they just can't admit yet that is where the problem really is.
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See also Tim Allen.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Exactly. That to me is the root of the destructive nature of social media. And the worst part is that people have not only been welcoming it with open arms, they aren't realizing that "1984" is indeed happening - but it isn't a government that is imposing it - we are doing it to ourselves.
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It astounds me how clairvoyant some writers of the past were.
 
Pixieish

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
I disagree with that premise on even the most basic level ("GamerGate" has become a convenient boogeyman), but for the sake of argument, ignoring that - so what?

If the thing that upsets you is where the spark came from, then I think you may be missing the lesson this situation is trying to teach about the world we have created via social media.
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The entire thing upsets me. The targeting of people for any purpose other than to report facts in the instance of actual wrongdoing is awful, and that so many blindly buy into the fallacies people create angers me to no end. Zero tolerance blew up in our faces 300 years ago, and it's blowing up in our faces now.

That said, the fact that those behind all these witchhunts haven't yet been stopped is also terrifying.
 
geekza

geekza

Well-Known Member
asianway said:
See also Tim Allen.
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There were several reasons why his show may have been canceled by ABC. Considering they were the ones who were fine with the Roseanne reboot having a decidedly right-wing slant, it doesn't really hold water that his show was canceled for political reasons. It was, more likely, a financial decision based upon the fact that it was six seasons in, ABC didn't own the show, and it wasn't such a ratings powerhouse that it would have been foolish to cancel it. Disney certainly doesn't have a problem with Tim Allen, as they still have a working relationship with him via Toy Story. He was even at the opening of Toy Story Land.
 
Pixieish

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
geekza said:
There were several reasons why his show may have been canceled by ABC. Considering they were the ones who were fine with the Roseanne reboot having a decidedly right-wing slant, it doesn't really hold water that his show was canceled for political reasons. It was, more likely, a financial decision based upon the fact that it was six seasons in, ABC didn't own the show, and it wasn't such a ratings powerhouse that it would have been foolish to cancel it. Disney certainly doesn't have a problem with Tim Allen, as they still have a working relationship with him via Toy Story. He was even at the opening of Toy Story Land.
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Side note: I was totally sad that Tom Hanks wasn't there, even though I was only watching online.
 
geekza

geekza

Well-Known Member
brb1006 said:
Per a news report about James Gunn, a voice actor from the show let it slip that the show "World of Color Villanous" is in the works

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/...red-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3-1202881161/
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OH, SNAP! Man, I so love Bobcat Goldthwait. He's been doing the interview rounds for the new TV series he's producing, writing, directing, etc. and he's one of the most humble, intelligent, thoughtful people I've heard interviewed. He's so much more than the crazy voice you may remember from the 1980's.
 
Pixieish

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
geekza said:
OH, SNAP! Man, I so love Bobcat Goldthwait. He's been doing the interview rounds for the new TV series he's producing, writing, directing, etc. and he's one of the most humble, intelligent, thoughtful people I've heard interviewed. He's so much more than the crazy voice you may remember from the 1980's.
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He rocks. I like this article better though - it analyzes exactly how much shade is in Bobcat's comments.
http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/07/23/bobcat-goldthwait-disney-james-gunn-firing/
 
geekza

geekza

Well-Known Member
Pixieish said:
He rocks. I like this article better though - it analyzes exactly how much shade is in Bobcat's comments.
http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/07/23/bobcat-goldthwait-disney-james-gunn-firing/
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Victor Salva is still making movies for a major Hollywood studio, but Gunn loses his job because of years-old tweets. I'd say ask the former child lead in Clownhouse how he feels about that, but the poor guy went through enough. If you don't know who Victor Salva is, it's worth investigating, though you'll feel awful afterwards.

(Edit: Meaning the collective "you," not Pixiesh, specifically.)
 
DDLand

DDLand

Well-Known Member
I’m going to have to strongly disagree with most of the posters here...

My Great Grandma who is in her 90s can sometimes say things that are culturally insensitive. I understand why. She grew up in another time and even if I spent weeks with her, she just wouldn’t GET IT. She isn’t a bad person, just not totally aware. Her standards of acceptable are different than mine. If she says something wrong- it’s a mistake.

If a person grows up in an insular place where everyone looks the same and thinks the same, and then visits another place where his views clash with typical values- I’d give that person the benefit of the doubt. They just don’t GET IT. It’s a mistake.

If someone is speaking for several hours and they say something stupid, that’s a mistake.

Did James Gunn make a “mistake?” Did he accidentaly make a slip of the tounge where he was misunderstood? Does he not understand taboos? Does he come from a different place where his values are the norm or harmless?

No.

James Gunn was, in his own words, a “provocateur.” His tweets are the exact opposite of a mistake, instead, they are explicitly designed to elicit the responses we are having now. Anything from disgust to laughter. His tweets were designed to create dissension and even hatred among groups of people.

They are inherently polarizing.

Is it a mistake to regularly joke about crimes against children, make fun of those with AIDs, mock LGBT individuals, etc? No.

He KNEW exactly what he was doing.

Now, a decade later, he has worked very hard to escape the past. Like a time bomb, it was bound to go off at some point.

Can people change? Yes. But he cannot escape this unscathed. Directors are influencers and can change culture and public opinion. They are powerful and can sway groups of people to different opinions. Do we want our influencers to be able to make those horrendous statements and then help lead culture? I don’t. Frankly, his comments are messed up. I really struggle to see myself supporting any of his work for a while. Maybe in the future, but not now. He has to pay for the behavior he exhibited back then. “But he apologized!” This level of consistent behavior needs more. He does need to suffer a bit. Call it “the mob mentality,” but what he said and did are beyond the the line of defense.

At the end of the day either The Walt Disney Company has values, or it doesn’t. Period.

I hope he returns, but not for a while. Horn did the hard, but right thing.
 
Pixieish

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
geekza said:
Victor Salva is still making movies for a major Hollywood studio, but Gunn loses his job because of years-old tweets. I'd say ask the former child lead in Clownhouse how he feels about that, but the poor guy went through enough. If you don't know who Victor Salva is, it's worth investigating, though you'll feel awful afterwards.

(Edit: Meaning the collective "you," not Pixiesh, specifically.)
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HAHAHA...I gotcha. ;)
 
DDLand

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
It astounds me how clairvoyant some writers of the past were.
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There’s nothing dystopian about a company making a conscious decision that a man who regularly made jokes about abuse should not have a place in their creative team. In fact, that’s like societal basics...
 
asianway

asianway

Well-Known Member
geekza said:
OH, SNAP! Man, I so love Bobcat Goldthwait. He's been doing the interview rounds for the new TV series he's producing, writing, directing, etc. and he's one of the most humble, intelligent, thoughtful people I've heard interviewed. He's so much more than the crazy voice you may remember from the 1980's.
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wonder what the penalty for breaking his NDA is
 

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