A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Pixieish]

Bobcat Goldthwait has come out on Instagram in a very eloquently worded post in support of Gunn. It's been posted in the other thread. (By the way - I had NO IDEA they were working on World of Color - Villanous!!)

 

[James J]

I should preface this by stating I had a pretty neutral opinion on Gunn prior to learning about his twitter past. I knew pretty much nothing about him or his behavior and twitter history. The first i'd ever heard of Gunn was when GOTG came out, and his position as director and writers for those two movies were still all I really knew about him before a few days ago. I'm also not a huge fanboy of GOTG, solid movies but i don't gush over them like many do. So I went into this controversy with a very neutral mindset.

In case it matters, i'm a liberal. I'm not trying to turn this political, I just wanted to make my intentions clear as not trying to smear him because of political bias. I'm also not hyper PC and really enjoy even extremely dark humor when done right (done right being key here). You need proper context, it has to be constructed in a clever and humorous way and with good intent. It's why I enjoy George Carlin so much, or South Park (who often use humor to attack pedos).

In my opinion (and this is subjective and JUST my opinion), Gunn's tweets lacked what I require to support "dark humor". It just came across as gross, unfunny, lacking in clever construction and seemed to have no intent other than trying to be edgy for the sake of edginess. It's the sort of behavior I more closely associate with the website 4chan- kids trolling people with offensive jabs to try to get attention and cause drama. Except this was apparently an older man doing it. The sheer quantity of tweets he made is also disturbing...

Similar to @raven24 (there's an ongoing discussion in another topic in politics), I am still not sure how I feel about the firing itself. It was quite an easy decision with Lasseter given that he actually sexually harassed women. But "distasteful humor" (if you can even call it humor, and hopefully that's the extent of what it was) is more complicated.

I am also well aware that Disney didn't make this decision out of moral integrity. While I wasn't aware of Gunn's past behavior (again I know very little about the man), the Disney executives who hired him certainly HAD to have been. So the issue broadens from "should they have fired him" instead to "should they have hired him to begin with". They fired him because they caved to public pressure, not because it was the "right thing to do". They had no problem with his behavior until this past week. The moral position should have been considered during the initial hiring process, not a few days ago.

Nailed exactly how I view the situation. Very well put.

 

[AEfx]

Nah because she has kept going off the deep end repeatedly since then....with excuses and hasn't moved on and accepted personal responsibility for her actions whereas Gunn has.

That is NOT what happened. Not that I can blame her for being upset after the entirety of social and traditional media screamed she was an evil racist for the past two months.

Roseanne sent the tweet at like 2:30AM, and it was deleted by her own accord and she apologized at like 7:30AM, *before* the media even got a hold of it.

Hours after that, she is fired from her own television show. And since, the media has continued to label her a definitive racist and has tried to completely erase her from the map.

Yes, she admitted was on Ambien and alcohol - which people LOVE to make jokes about, but apparently they have forgotten about the countless stories about people on Ambien driving and doing all sorts of things because it impairs judgement. Not to mention, as she has said from the beginning, she thought the woman was white. Judging by a lot of pictures, in many, I can see exactly why.

Yet, she didn't even say that stuff until it was clear people were not going to stop hounding her and making sure her reputation was ruined. You go back and read the original apologies - she took full responsibility, but people didn't accept her apology and demanded more. So she gave further explanation, and then people come after her all over again for making "excuses" - it would be comical if not so tyrannical, it is the equivalent of grabbing someones arm and repeatedly using it to hit them while saying "stop hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself?"

The videos she has released over the weekend are a product of the fact that the woman has well-known mental illnesses, and this has been two months of an unprecedented attack on her where 80%+ of it is completely politically fueled. People don't want to hear the facts, they just want to put her in some "evil racist!" box because she supported the President. Let's not pretend it is anything otherwise.

So I cannot blame her, after having her career destroyed, being tossed out like trash, and having her legacy basically erased over a drunken tweet sent in the middle of the night, for looking at the camera and screaming "I THOUGHT SHE WAS WHITE!" since no one apparently will listen or care. She has nothing to lose at this point. Have you seen the mountains and mountains of bile that has been spilled her way over this? No human, particularly one that already has mental health issues, is going to perform well when the mob is a) not satisfied with them no matter what they say, and b) has already issued the "death" sentence so quickly and definitively without even listening to what was being said.

Disney isn't hiring back Roseanne, nor is it hiring Gunn. And the folks that have a problem with that are just going to have to make peace with the fact that by cheering what happened to Roseanne (zero tolerance, complete erasure) or Milo Yiannopoulous or Billy Bush, they set the stage for this one - and the ones that are happening in the future (some of which are about to happen as we speak).

"Rick and Morty" fans, brace yourselves - Dan Harmon is next. The social media mobs have already moved on from Gunn, they have their next target already in motion. Dan Harmon Deletes Twitter Account After His 2009 Baby Rape Video Resurfaces.

 

[AEfx]

Very eloquently put. However, I would also argue that while Roseanne made excuses and tried to apologize after-the-fact, Gunn owned up to his previous behavior before he was even hired and apologized and immediately cleaned up his act. To me, that speaks volumes about the type of person he is.

See my post above. I realize that it happened so quickly people may have missed how it really went down, but Roseanne deleted the tweet and apologized before the media even picked it up. She "made excuses" after people screamed that her apology wasn't accepted, her career was torn away from her, and people were demanding "how can you say such things?" There is a stark difference between explaining your actions when the mob demands it, and making "excuses".

 

[AEfx]

Since my other post was rather long, I don't want TL;DR folks to miss this at the end:

"Rick and Morty" fans, brace yourselves - Dan Harmon is next. The social media mobs have already moved on from Gunn, they have their next target already in motion. Dan Harmon Deletes Twitter Account After His 2009 Baby Rape Video Resurfaces.

 

[Pixieish]

See my post above. I realize that it happened so quickly people may have missed how it really went down, but Roseanne deleted the tweet and apologized before the media even picked it up. She "made excuses" after people screamed that her apology wasn't accepted, her career was torn away from her, and people were demanding "how can you say such things?" There is a stark difference between explaining your actions when the mob demands it, and making "excuses".

Oh, I absolutely agree. The whole mess stinks to high heaven. I don't think it was right that they fired her, either. I was using the "excuses" thing because that's everyone's favorite thing to blast her for. I'm of the "let's be merciful and forgiving" crowd...everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Pixieish]

Since my other post was rather long, I don't want TL;DR folks to miss this at the end:

"Rick and Morty" fans, brace yourselves - Dan Harmon is next. The social media mobs have already moved on from Gunn, they have their next target already in motion. Dan Harmon Deletes Twitter Account After His 2009 Baby Rape Video Resurfaces.

I wish I could find it again, but I read an article in which Cernovich said he has many more targets he means to go after in Hollywood. It was phrased like a threat.

 

[LSLS]

See my post above. I realize that it happened so quickly people may have missed how it really went down, but Roseanne deleted the tweet and apologized before the media even picked it up. She "made excuses" after people screamed that her apology wasn't accepted, her career was torn away from her, and people were demanding "how can you say such things?" There is a stark difference between explaining your actions when the mob demands it, and making "excuses".

So, you are correct, not how I understand it at all. According to this, that is not how it happened. At 7AM, Chelsea Clinton responded, at the same time it was blowing up twitter. She was tweeting conspiracies at 9:30 Eastern. 10 Eastern, executives were discussing. 10:30, she apologized (not talking about times, time zone differences can make up for those things). Then later that night, in between apologies, she was retweeting that the liberal media was out to get her.

CNN Money Source

 

[Bairstow]

Since my other post was rather long, I don't want TL;DR folks to miss this at the end:

"Rick and Morty" fans, brace yourselves - Dan Harmon is next. The social media mobs have already moved on from Gunn, they have their next target already in motion. Dan Harmon Deletes Twitter Account After His 2009 Baby Rape Video Resurfaces.

Isn't that entire cartoon based on an earlier one Harmon made where the "Doc" character keeps trying to get Morty to perform acts him? I get that Harmon would want to delete all his old stuff as a precaution but he's still very much in the business of (suprisngly well written) shock humor.

 

[geekza]

Zero Tolerance doesn't work. It never has. Why? Because life is not a series of binary decisions. There are things I've said and done in the past that I would never say or do today. Why? Because I'm not the same person I was back then. If we can't begin to take into account that life experiences change us, then why should anyone ever be open minded or try to continue to learn about the world? Zero Tolerance is the product of a society that doesn't want to have to think and reason. There are some things that are inherently evil. There are other things that are negative, but not evil. The two are not the same. If someone does or says something that is negative, they need to be afforded the opportunity to grow and change. The people who went hunting for Gunn did so because of less-than-noble reasoning. Roseanne lost her show because of breaking a stipulation of her current contract. For her sake, I really do hope she is sorry for it and changes her behavior moving forward. I don't hate her and I don't think she's an evil person. She's talented and I wish her well in the future. She screwed up and is paying for her mistake. I hope she is allowed the chance to change and is given future opportunities to share her talents. Gunn posted some juvenile crap years and years ago, admitted they were stupid, and stopped doing it. He was called out for negative behavior and changed. Disney are being cowards.

 

[trainplane3]

Since my other post was rather long, I don't want TL;DR folks to miss this at the end:

"Rick and Morty" fans, brace yourselves - Dan Harmon is next. The social media mobs have already moved on from Gunn, they have their next target already in motion. Dan Harmon Deletes Twitter Account After His 2009 Baby Rape Video Resurfaces.

I wonder if anyone that knows anything about Dan Harmon/Rick and Morty ever saw Doc and Mharti by Justin Roiland? I'm surprised nothings ever come of that even though its a harmless, crude cartoon full of high school humor. But Marty is 14(?) in the actual show sooo.... kinda surprised none of these people tried to draw conclusions between them and attack Roiland.

Edit: That baby doll video is something I'd see on Adult Swim. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen more offensive things on there.

 

[Pixieish]

Isn't that entire cartoon based on an earlier one Harmon made where the "Doc" character keeps trying to get Morty to perform acts him? I get that Harmon would want to delete all his old stuff as a precaution but he's still very much in the business of (suprisngly well written) shock humor.

And that's exactly the business Gunn was trying to grow a name in. His only real fault is that his jokes fell flat and that he failed to delete everything upon his hiring by Marvel.

 

[AEfx]

I wish I could find it again, but I read an article in which Cernovich said he has many more targets he means to go after in Hollywood. It was phrased like a threat.

I've been following it, too, and they are talking something like 300 celebrity/entertainment folks Twitter feeds have been preserved and processed "so far" - so deleting the tweets won't help.

And being absolutely fair - the "far left" has had their own list, as well. If I had a nickel for each time I read some variation "We did it! Another one knocked off! Who's next?" after Roseanne was fired, I'd have enough to buy an annual pass to Disney this year. Hell, even celebrities like Debra Messing were openly admitting in tweets how "relieved" they were to be rid of her (and in Messing's case I couldn't help but also hear a "good because her rebooted show did 4x better than ours did, but that is another topic, LOL).

The only bright spot to any of this is that it does seem that people are finally waking up to how destructive social media has become - but I see so many trying to separate this like it is some anomaly because they just can't admit yet that is where the problem really is.

 

[geekza]

And being absolutely fair - the "far left" has had their own list, as well. If I had a nickel for each time I read some variation "We did it! Another one bites the dust! Who's next?" after Roseanne was fired, I'd have enough to buy an annual pass to Disney this year.

As an avowed "Lefty," you are correct. It is wrong for anyone to go on a witch hunt, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum. People with visibility and power who are guilty of actual crimes should be held accountable for their actions. The longer we, as a society, focus on things that are not criminal or evil, the less capable we become of recognizing and stomping out what is truly criminal or evil. We've become a snake eating its own tail.

 

[Pixieish]

As an avowed "Lefty," you are correct. It is wrong for anyone to go on a witch hunt, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum. People with visibility and power who are guilty of actual crimes should be held accountable for their actions. The longer we, as a society, focus on things that are not criminal or evil, the less capable we become of recognizing and stomping out what is truly criminal or evil. We've become a snake eating its own tail.

AMEN.

To further add to this, words are just that - words. People need to get over equating them to actions.

Jonathan Swift would be hung up by his toenails for "A Modest Proposal" today.

 

[AEfx]

As an avowed "Lefty," you are correct. It is wrong for anyone to go on a witch hunt, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum. People with visibility and power who are guilty of actual crimes should be held accountable for their actions. The longer we, as a society, focus on things that are not criminal or evil, the less capable we become of recognizing and stomping out what is truly criminal or evil. We've become a snake eating its own tail.

Exactly. That to me is the root of the destructive nature of social media. And the worst part is that people have not only been welcoming it with open arms, they aren't realizing that "1984" is indeed happening - but it isn't a government that is imposing it - we are doing it to ourselves.

 

[Nubs70]

I've been following it, too, and they are talking something like 300 celebrity/entertainment folks Twitter feeds have been preserved and processed "so far" - so deleting the tweets won't help.

And being absolutely fair - the "far left" has had their own list, as well. If I had a nickel for each time I read some variation "We did it! Another one knocked off! Who's next?" after Roseanne was fired, I'd have enough to buy an annual pass to Disney this year. Hell, even celebrities like Debra Messing were openly admitting in tweets how "relieved" they were to be rid of her (and in Messing's case I couldn't help but also hear a "good because her rebooted show did 4x better than ours did, but that is another topic, LOL).

The only bright spot to any of this is that it does seem that people are finally waking up to how destructive social media has become - but I see so many trying to separate this like it is some anomaly because they just can't admit yet that is where the problem really is.

People need to go to Jimmy John's and find the plaque that outlines what constitutes a sincere apology.

If the offended cannot accept a sincere apology, the offended can go pound sand.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Gamergate played such a massive role in this, yet it has gone unacknowledged.

 

[Pixieish]

People need to go to Jimmy John's and find the plaque that outlines what constitutes a sincere apology.

If the offended cannot accept a sincere apology, the offended can go pound sand.

Wouldn't it be nice if that's how it worked.

 

[Pixieish]

Gamergate played such a massive role in this, yet it has gone unacknowledged.

Absolutely it did.