News Passholder Benefits Shifting

[Kenny Hensley]

You know what would be a great perk for not only Annual Passholders but any frequent visitor or first time to EPCOT?

Having the end of Club Cool all the way through the big hallway of nothing leading to The Land and Living Seas not smell like a sewage line break.

Yes, I know the reasons, but it does not need to be like that and no one is willing to fix it. The fact that any theme park managment is okay with it smelling like that for literally years is all kinds of wrong.

Oh hey,
and guess where you traditionally go to pick up magnets? Same said hall.

I wish I could like your comment more than once.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, I do not work for the chamber, but I work with them on a near daily basis. Along with Disney, Universal, Sea World, GOAA, Visit Orlando and CFHLA. I am currently an Orlando (WP) resident (and lifelong, multi-generational; an actual Florida native).

Many of Orlando's largest domestic feeder markets aren't even out of school yet. That's not even getting into the huge boom of international traffic into Orlando. There isn't really anything to oversimplify. The data is what it is.

The only feeder markets currently not out of school are those on trimesters...or the northeast megalopolis...

WDW should not be moderate/light in June or August...but those are the reports we see the last few years - at least in comparison. I’ve never seen anyone on these boards exaggerate crowds in the LIGHT side...full guns blazing the other way.

I live in the center of that megalopolis with likely the highest number of DVC and AP per capita outside of Florida...

...and you know when we dont flood Orlando? July. It’s slightly less hot and we have coastal economies here.

You have valid points and data...I concede that. But it’s tough to make the case that the travel patterns specifically to WDW haven’t shifted a lot.

Is it possible that much of the tourism outside disney property can’t afford Disney anymore? Because that’s their goal and the OC COC would lie/hide that info like the plague.

 

[Kenny Hensley]

Yes, you make a valid point on Epcot, however, I disagree about Hollywood. Epcot is a restaurant place with some interesting stuff. The food and garden show was a let down with few tasty food booths. There was never a line for most food and that was a plus. We usually took a taste and did not finish the food. I was at both places in May and stayed at Bay Lake. Hollywood Studios Star Wars was a big let down for me. Too many storm troopers, not enough eworks if you get me....too dark and not enough disney light. It may be an interesting theme and the 9:30 pm show is OK (really pretty bad), but Star Wars as presented is not a reason for me to go. There is nothing interesting for Star Wars when there could be sooooo much. Now if they had a ride like "Flight of Passage " for Star wars that would be an improvement to the already great rides at Hollywood. Hollywood is RRRC, TT and a great meal at Prime Time Cafe and can easily be done in no more that half a day. I wish they had better banter at the cafe....the waiters are down right polite.... not what I an used to!!! They have no shtick. An Fantasia is as good as ever, but I've seen it for years.

Are you going back for Flower and Wine?

 

[MattM]

You have valid points and data...I concede that. But it’s tough to make the case that the travel patterns specifically to WDW haven’t shifted a lot.

Yes, patterns have shifted in that what was traditionally the "slow" periods have become not slow.

Is it possible that much of the tourism outside disney property can’t afford Disney anymore? Because that’s their goal and the OC COC would lie/hide that info like the plague.

The short answer to your question is "no." Like I said earlier, there is data that provides (almost in lock step with Disney's numbers) exactly what percentage of visitors into Orlando visit Disney World. It is strikingly close.

The chamber doesn't hide/lie about data. That's kinda out there, even for this site. Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, patterns have shifted in that what was traditionally the "slow" periods have become not slow.


The short answer to your question is "no." Like I said earlier, there is data that provides (almost in lock step with Disney's numbers) exactly what percentage of visitors into Orlando visit Disney World. It is strikingly close.

The chamber doesn't hide/lie about data. That's kinda out there, even for this site. Not everything is a conspiracy.

It honestly means more to you than me. I love light crowds and hope they increase.

But consider: what type of visits are outside visitors making? Length of stay is what TWDC covets...and that is measured primarily in their hotels.

I now yield my time, Madam Speaker, to the honorable gentlemen from Florida. Nice conversation

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Are you going back for Flower and Wine?

Does it really matter what they call them? International Wine Festival of the Garden Arts is prettier...just my opinion

 

[Kenny Hensley]

Does it really matter what they call them? International Wine Festival of the Garden Arts is prettier...just my opinion

Of course not...my wife does that all the time...John just ended up as a convenient substitute for her

At least the festivals aren't billed as "Mickey's" or "Disney's"

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course not...my wife does that all the time...John just ended up as a convenient substitute for her

At least the festivals aren't billed as "Mickey's" or "Disney's"

...give it time. Once there are magic kingdom rides in all the pavilions and they start selling $6 Apple juice..they will.

 

[disneyflush]

To me parking fees(which don't effect me) inposed is a big slap in the face of guest as is almost everything Disney does now. Money$$$$$$seems to rule for them now, not the guest

Disney has come to the point where its pricing is built on the once-in-a-lifetime trip takers being somewhat immune to yearly jumps in price for most things across the board at the resort. They have nothing to compare the costs too since they have never done it and no reason to hold off on paying it because they'll never do it again. Star Wars is looming large for 2020 (lets be honest about the full opening date) and 2018/2019 isn't nearly as appealing to the percentage of 1st timers and 1-in-a-lifetime visitors. That leaves Disney with frequent visitors and passholders who will always hold them to much higher standards. A problem there is that these people are super sensitive to petty stuff like resort parking charges where Disney just went for a quick cash grab. Now the people that assumed they would always go and have unchallenged love for WDW are blinking real hard at handing over whatever amount of cash Disney decides they want this year to let them have access to their memories and happy places.

There is also the issue of Universal building up a similar vacation package option down the road. This (theoretically) cuts Disney's ability to raise prices at-will moving forward as there is now a 'substitute' good of comparable value (this is obviously highly subjective in our Disney messageboard world) for a price which is, historically, not as high. I realize they are building most of this new pricing into the Star Wars land development but the accompanying effects to the rest of the resort will be felt in many ways yet to be seen.

I guess this has always been a 'shut up and take my money' scenario for a lot of people that want to visit. I do think we have reached a point where pricing effects will put more stress on attendance than variable-rate pricing will be able to smooth into 'nothing to see here' territory. The true test will be July when crowd levels reach their historic high-points.

 

[MattM]

It honestly means more to you than me. I love light crowds and hope they increase.

But consider: what type of visits are outside visitors making? Length of stay is what TWDC covets...and that is measured primarily in their hotels.

I now yield my time, Madam Speaker, to the honorable gentlemen from Florida. Nice conversation

I get paid either way. I thought you were interested because you'd responded to every one of my posts. Sorry.

Quick Add: Length of stay is largely unchanged in terms of LTAs.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I get paid either way. I thought you were interested because you'd responded to every one of my posts. Sorry.

Quick Add: Length of stay is largely unchanged in terms of LTAs.

Oh I am interested...no doubt.

 

[LSLS]

I get paid either way. I thought you were interested because you'd responded to every one of my posts. Sorry.

Quick Add: Length of stay is largely unchanged in terms of LTAs.

So you have a lot of great info. Any idea why if stays are not down, why the parks are noticeably less crowded?

 

[aladdin2007]

I have to say I was at Epcot today and thought it was busy as can be, I dont get it. Sure the line for frozen was not out into the courtyard, but stores were packed, Mexico had a huge line (maybe the ride had been down or something there) you could barely shop anywhere being shoulder to shoulder in the stores, couldn't get near the bakery in France, Figment had a line extended outside as did Nemo...,so I am not seeing what Disney is complaining about, they were making money.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'm happy I could time my EPCOT visits to before the Guardians summer lunacy. Happy to learn the park is dead right now.

Maybe the park is empty this summer because fans who enjoy SSE, Illuminations and the AA by default dislike yelling superheros? Don't try to please too many crowds.

 

[bstiles]

I see they are offering half off single day tickets if you are brought by annual pass holders with gold level or higher. They even included park hopping on the 1 day ticket. Deal ends the 29th of June. Must really be hurting to start cutting deals on 1 day tickets.

 

[Sonconato]

The big issue, though, is that the ones saying they are done are Florida residents, passholders, people who go several times a year, or people who do a big trip every year. When many of these ones reduce visits or completely stop going to WDW they cannot be replaced by the families who are "saving every penny to visit". Those families tend to spend less, stay in cheaper hotels, eat at less expensive restaurants, and so forth. There will be a noticeable difference when the people who used to come regularly and stay on-site at Disney hotels and eat at Disney restaurants don't come back as often or at all. Disney didn't listen carefully enough when the people who make up the "WDW Middle Class", the ones who drive the economy of their business, said they were getting fed up with all the nickle and diming with no real added value that Disney was plaguing us with.

I still attend because my annual pass hasn't run out yet. But I definitely don't spend money at Disney like I used to. I stay at other hotels in the area that don't charge extra for parking, (Yes! They do exist, Disney!) and I eat at more counter service restaurants now instead of sit-down. My budget is my budget. So, when Disney raises prices I find cheaper options. Now I find I actually spend less than I used to because their prices put some things juuuuuust out of reach. The cheaper alternatives are much cheaper. For instance. A sit-down meal for my wife and I used to average around $80 not too long ago. Now that it averages closer to $100 I choose a counter service instead. It's closer to $50. In the end, Disney and I are both losers. I don't get to enjoy as nice of a meal and Disney gets less of my money. Nice job, Disney.

What is more, now I have to wrestle with the decision of what to do next month when my pass expires Perhaps take a break for a while? Downgrade a tier or two on my pass? Find a new vacation destination? I know one thing for sure, there is no reason for me to stay a Platinum Passholder. The slight possibility to perhaps ride two rides in Toy Story Land sometime in September....MAYBE....after the land has been open for several months....uh uh....NOPE....that is not added value. No waterparks for platinum? Hmmm...this is a hard decision.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Walt d]

Any thoughts to why attendance isn't up to projections? Is this Epcot specific or resort wide?

Could it be price increases/parking charges/etc finally having some impact?

Bring back off kilter epcot”

 

[MAGICFLOP]

Where did the Original poster get the attendance to know its down..

I am not doubting his assertion, my family had an annual passes for 15 years and dumped it 3 years ago and have not been back since. I can only imagine there is a percentage that feels as I do. I feel a huge shift in Disney since Iger. I don't like the TV shows, Movies and especially ABC and ESPN. I cut my cable 3 years ago when I found out $8 of my bill went to ESPN.

I will always love Disney, but also feel that when the bottom line gets hurt they may get the message.. from what I understand ABC is losing money and they may dump the news bureau and ESPN is struggling financially as well..

I will always have a spot for WDW in my heart,, but as for now, I don't want it in my face..

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you have a lot of great info. Any idea why if stays are not down, why the parks are noticeably less crowded?

Apparently that’s an illusion according to our friend...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I see they are offering half off single day tickets if you are brought by annual pass holders with gold level or higher. They even included park hopping on the 1 day ticket. Deal ends the 29th of June. Must really be hurting to start cutting deals on 1 day tickets.

...yeah...they are or they would’nt bother.

So apparently business is booming in Orlando...but they can’t seem to cross I-4 to get into LBV...

Are the workers finally Picketing?