A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[WDW1974]

To add to the discussion of which "foreign" Disney park to visit first; that decision should be based on which country you would rather visit. The parks can easily be experienced well in a couple of days, and with the cost/commitment that comes with overseas travel, it makes sense to couple the Disney park with a larger trip.

A very good point.

My comments were on the typical American snowflake (love how that term has become so in vogue these days) who has never traveled abroad and wants to largely to visit Disney parks. But even taking that away, I would still advise France as the first place to visit (or second if you include a UK component!)

 

[WDW1974]

Japan is awesome. I've visited 5 times and still try to go back as often as I possibly can...even considered moving there but it's difficult.

Talk to @WDWFigment. I think Disney Blogger to the Stars, Tom Bricker, would live there today if he could (making no judgment, just a statement!)

 

[WDW1974]

@WDW1974 , you're leaving us hanging on the updates, man.

Been busy. And not my job ... am spending my Saturday night just trying to catch up and wade through posts on pizza.

 

[WDW1974]

I think Mrs. Spirit might want the Spirit to be able to have a weekend with her!! Hopefully the thread wont get too crazy before he returns!! Marie

The old ball and chain is doing her own thing this weekend, but thanks for thinking of her!

 

[WDW1974]

Aww man

It's a good thing. Trust me!

 

[brb1006]

It's a good thing. Trust me!

Well at least we have Martin. No offense or anything, but I like you and Martin equally. Hope you might get to TDR eventually.

 

[WDW1974]

Sorry for the part I played...

No apologies needed. My decision wasn't about what has gone on in this thread at all (this is mild, compared to some). ... It's about me being able to be heard (and maybe even compensated) uncensored without dealing with trolls and still be part of a community here that I value. It has been brewing for a few years as I spent more time away ... and as I watched friends leave. I am not leaving MAGIC, but the news breaking and analysis will largely happen elsewhere.

 

[WDW1974]

If you had to guess, how long do you think it will be before paid Fastpass is the only Fastpass?

Don't want to guess. But sooner than you think ...and without wanting to tell too much of a developing story (as they say on fake news like CNN and BBC etc), look for FP to be bundled with other 'options' at first, so to allow the PR spinners to claim that FP is still a free service.

It's all very simple: the more you pay, the more fun and chances to play you'll have.

When will Tom Aimless steal this one?

 

[WDW1974]

Same thing with Tokyo Disney Resort I would assume?

I have never seen TDR as empty as HKDL at times. But I have seen DL and DCA that empty on rainy days (sprinkling to a FL) within the last decade.

 

[WDW1974]

Now that I think about it has Shanghai even started any Holiday related events so far? Because I think Shanghai Disney might be the only Disney Theme Park that doesn't have a Christmas Event unlike the other parks.

The other parks have Christmas entertainment. The MK is the only park that has an upcharge party with the same offerings that once were included with regular admission for all Guests starting Thanksgiving weekend.

SDL is supposed to be getting more stuff for both Halloween and Christmas this year. Last year, they were just trying to get the park up and running and the holidays were largely an afterthought.

 

[WDW1974]

They've been doing this since the 80s/90s IIRC...

Not really. The Christmas Parties started in the early 90s, I think. They were originally just two weekend nights in December and then spread out. But even when they started, WDW still offered the entertainment to day Guests. The Party had all kind of 'extras' ... slowly, they phased many out and then pushed the start of Christmas offerings back to the point that now you either pay for the party (even as an APer ... yeah, they might give you $4 off ... how generous!) or come to WDW during the busiest and priciest two weeks of the year.

Not how things used to be done at all. You'd think that they could at least toss APers a pair of free tickets to the party every year, but nope ...

 

[WDW1974]

I absolutely can't disagree that Disney has drastically reduced its offerings over the years. It truly is a far cry from the holiday enhancements they offered in the past.

But Fords implication that Disney no longer has any holiday offerings for day guests and that Universal never resorts to up charges and special ticketed events needed to be called out.

Agree on both points.

 

[No Name]

Throughout its history, Fastpass has been more of an illusion than an actual benefit. The average guest feels like they're getting something for free. The average guest feels like they're spending much less time in line. The average guest appreciates Disney allowing them to skip lines at no extra cost. And so if they take away free Fastpass, a lot of return guests will be upset and new guests won't feel that appreciation.

Basically, I think the illusion is better for the bottom line than the extra revenue would be.

 

[brb1006]

Not really. The Christmas Parties started in the early 90s, I think. They were originally just two weekend nights in December and then spread out. But even when they started, WDW still offered the entertainment to day Guests. The Party had all kind of 'extras' ... slowly, they phased many out and then pushed the start of Christmas offerings back to the point that now you either pay for the party (even as an APer ... yeah, they might give you $4 off ... how generous!) or come to WDW during the busiest and priciest two weeks of the year.

Not how things used to be done at all. You'd think that they could at least toss APers a pair of free tickets to the party every year, but nope ...

Now that I think about it, Christmas Parades at WDW and Disneyland have come a long way since after seeing older parade footage back in the 60's and 70's (Before they became a tradition at the parks) it mostly featured Disney films and the ending having a Christmas section (Mainly the "Fantasy On Parade" that ran at Disneyland before being replaced with "A Christmas Fantasy")

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the reply! You are right, most of my angst stems from a park offering a certain bounty of new offerings for me to justify the trip. I'm eager to return to Tokyo, but I also know they really haven't added anything and I don't want to burn myself out by redoing a great product too frequently. I acknowledge I'm the weirdo exception on these boards. I'm not even Bricker who at least has a home park!

He gets a lot of credit from me because he does loads of non-Disney travel, especially the National Parks. I do see his endgame with his Disney site, even if he doesn't admit it. He wants the definitive online resource guide for visiting all the Disney parks and destinations worldwide. I think he's biting off too much by shoving out a huge amount of content and falling into blogger traps (no, everyone doesn't need a review of the latest DVD release or the latest limited time offering etc.) But I admire his chutzpah. And he is an amazing talent with a camera. Oh wait, I was talking about weirdo Bricker, not weirdo Brian. Sorry!

Tokyo is to be commended for having the best product out there and very successfully keeping it fresh. But in no way have they moved the meter in any significant way for an entire decade. They've just kept the meter rock steady.

They have added new product. It may be tired new product (like TSMM or Stitch Encounter) or repurposed (Nemo). But they have put it out, again, along with new entertainment offerings.

I was there to see them update Dreamlights for like the fourth or fifth time. When is the next night parade at MK? Oh, 2021.

It is the microcosm of time that has WDW looking currently favourable only. Just so I don't come off a total hypocrite - I should note that I've now been to WDW a grand total of 3 times this millennium (2005, 2012, 2017). It's not exactly like I'm running back to WDW over and over to reward them for the stagnation.

I didn't even know you were there this year! But, yes, knew you were not the three times a year type. I am. But I live in FL ... and have had an AP for 35 years.

I don't want to make it a comparison between WDW, because that is like the age-old Universal versus Disney trick. Just because one sets an obscenely low bar in a certain metric doesn't mean the other is exceeding expectations. The only two real standouts for new investment this decade are Hong Kong and Disneyland resort (depending on the level of disdain over what they are choosing to do in 2019).


There is no denying that the trajectory of investments at Tokyo is currently glacial. Glacial compared to their friends down in Osaka even. The third biggest thing they did ride-wise this entire decade was Nemo... (TSMM and forthcoming Soaring being the highlights). I hope Olympics are the big blame and we see them start to pick up the pace next decade again.

I saw a rumour circulating that the Scandinavia expansion was penciled for 2026, I really hope that was a joke. Or a cherry on top of a bunch of things we don't know about.

I have heard a bit sooner, but not a lot. That port will be the last thing built out of current plans unless something changes. And the Olympics have been a factor. Not sure how much as it changes depending on who you are talking to.

 

[WDW1974]

Isn't it amazing how much better fast food is in anyplace but the US?

That is so true. Sad. But reminds me of the OLC and TDR. These fast food chains are held to standards that the US operators haven't followed in decades either.

 

[WDW1974]

And DLP had Paid FP previously but was discontinued since 2009.

A very brief experiment.

I could point out that my DLP AP cost about $115. My WDW AP cost almost $600.

 

[WDW1974]

Need to run again. Will attempt to place some more content out here on TDR and D23 and WDW in the next few days. It might mean ignoring some posts for a while. But can't keep up and can't devote hours to this. Sorry.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I loved the GMR and UoE (not Ellen's version). Maybe I should go buy tees to thank Disney for taking them away. THAT is what today's fans are all about!

Speaking as a developmental psychologist with familiarity in operant conditioning, I do not believe in positively reinforcing behaviors that should be negatively punished (e.g., when Disney closes an attraction, I do not buy a t-shirt, so a negative behavior results in a negative consequence, which should subsequently decrease the likelihood of the behavior in the future). However, I am a fan of EPCOT Center, have had the opportunity to visit the parks since 1984, and do not recall ever seeing any Universe of Energy merchandise other than the occasional pin. I remembered being wowed by the diorama of the dinosaurs, especially the feeling of the cool early morning to the warmth of the day as the sun began to rise.

I wonder if anyone at TWDC really cares that EPCOT Center inspired me to pursue a career in social policy and that I regularly look for positions in energy and nutritional policy because of the Universe of Energy and Land Pavilion, respectively.

 

[bclane]

People who have only been visited WDW for the last 15 years or even 20 have no idea that WDW once was like that too!

They have been conditioned to pay more for less and lower quality all the time.

I loved the GMR and UoE (not Ellen's version). Maybe I should go buy tees to thank Disney for taking them away. THAT is what today's fans are all about!

So true! I was at the Magic Kingdom opening weekend and then multiple times a year ever since (even before moving to Orlando). I have memories of the level of quality and service at WDW that just didn't seem realistic and I've wondered if I had just snorted too much pixie dust over the years. Then I went to Japan and realized that I wasn't just dreaming it up. It really is possible to have it like I remember!

On a side note, I'm hoping they include free fast passes for platinum plus APs whenever they switch to the new system you've hinted at. If they charge me for it it may cut into my Boma budget and that is just not acceptable!