WDW Taking a Hit Over Gator and Massacre ...

[WDW1974]

Erasing the existence of alligators and crocodiles is beyond over the top. What next? Close Test Track the next time there is a traffic accident on property resulting in fatalities? On second thought . . .

Good point. I get not trying to be insensitive. And that is the correct move both morally and from a business standpoint. BUT ... Disney and Disney Legal and Disney PR takes things to absurd and obscene levels.

I wonder if Universal is also seeing reduced bookings. It would explain why I was able to get an AP discount at Cabana Bay for 4th of July weekend when none existed just a few days ago, and why even HRH, PBR and RPR have better AP discounts available.

I would be shocked if they weren't. This is an Orlando issue, not a Disney-specific one. And people might fear gators, but they also fear mass shootings, especially when said shooter cloaks an insane hate crime in an ISIS wrapper.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not aware of the other ones, but surely you don't have an issue with them removing the Jungle Cruise joke that was about children getting eaten by alligators, on a ride just a few hundred yards away from where a child just died of an alligator attack?

Don't call me Shirley, and no, that is an OK thing to do (temporarily). If they decide to put tarps over the crocs and then in six months remove them, then you better believe I'd have an issue.

 

[WDW1974]

If this is true, I'm wondering if WDW is discounting rooms at the GF for the next few months due to these cancellations. A September trip might be nice.

Hah. That is funny. Disney will let rooms sit empty before they 'give them away' for 'only' $200 a night. ... See: every reason why DVC is expanding (and someone, please tell Tommy Boi that he isn't breaking any news ... as usual. He is taking leftovers. Mine.)

 

[Bolt]

Has this hurt Universal too?

 

[fosse76]

Hah. That is funny. Disney will let rooms sit empty before they 'give them away' for 'only' $200 a night.

I call that the "NYC Apartment Rental Strategy".

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think it is specific to the Graves family. Disney doesn't like ANY negative feedback, and if they think a casual guest with no relation to the Graves family might say something about the use of alligators/crocodiles being inappropriate or insensitive on merchandise or as characters in rides or as mascots, then purged they must be! It's one of the reasons I think that Disney's customer service is anything but: they grease the squeaky wheel to prevent any negative feedback (oh, you waited three hours for Frozen Ever After? Here's a free ice cream). I think the removal of the joke on the Jungle Cruise was sufficient.

^^This.

 

[Rodan75]

As the spirit and others have stated, this is primarily just theater. However, sometimes that theater is needed and in our social media age if the theater didn't occur, WDW would be classified and pounded on as heartless. At least reacting is seen as 'handling' the problem. (not to try and open another can of words about proactive actions)

I can't imagine some of the theater will last long, at least regarding depictions of gators and crocs in the parks. I think we are probably in for a long period of beach limitations. And I would be interested to see if they have warnings/signs up in the bungalows about feeding alligators now.

 

[Section106]

What is Disney supposed to do in this situation? A situation that they haven't faced in 44 years? These people are human and I'm sure they have feelings about what happened. I'm sure they are trying to do their best. But let's not let any reason to bash Disney's decision making go by the wayside.

I think that removing the mascot/cartoon gators is an okay response. Do you think that Disney wants people to be reminded of the tragedy while on vacation? I'm sure that when we go a few years without a gator attack that those removed references will return.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Thought about putting this in my Spirited thread, but I feel it is important enough to not be buried in 200-plus pages. And it isn't specifically about the gators and bad parenting and whether George Kalogridis should be fired (he should), so I'd respectfully ask the mods to not bury this when the inevitable complaints due to who is writing it here come in.

From a trusted and well-placed source:

First, in what has been a very lousy summer (no, I don't care that there were 300 minute waits for Frozenstrom as we all know why that is and what it means) for WDW and O-Town in general, things are about to get worse in the $$$ department:

"The Grand Floridan has seen a huge surge of cancellations and requests to be moved to other resorts. There have also been a larger than normal request of refunds for Guest choosing not to visit at all due to the events on property and off."

Second, the ridiculous (and @WDWFigment wrote a nice blog post on his own site about this) and knee-jerk reaction of WDW in making it seem like gators don't exist in any realm, even fantasy ones are the rule of the day. In other words, who knows whether parade floats or foamheads will ever be allowed to return because one child died in 44 years.

I also forgot somehow that Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach both have alligators as mascots. One wonders if they'll rip out the fiberglass versions and change the maps because THAT will address the problems, not properly warning Guests these animals are present and properly warning them that they will be subject to fining, trespass and banning if they or their children feed gators.

Playing pretend is always so much better. From the source again:

"Marketing has been reviewing every single piece of collateral and pulling anything that shows or depicts an alligator or crocodile in addition to showing beaches in resort photos and listings as amenities.

Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon had a whole summer campaign featuring their respected gator mascots that was pulled at the last minute."

If anyone wondered how WDW would handle a crisis, you are now seeing it in full view and it isn't pretty at all.

My people Suggest similar cancellations in the wake of the Pulse shootings.

It's a moocher reaction, but if it wasn't… Then they would've been proactive in the first place.

 

[WDW1974]

I definitely see how the events in Orlando as of late could be affecting current and/or in the near future bookings, but if the long-time visitors that I know are a representation of a the larger population of Disney-goers, it would seem that people are slowly starting to take notice of the budget cuts, the lack of new attractions/shows/ride/etc. and simply not booking trips to WDW.

Not denying that at all. I agree. O-Town was in for a bad 2016 regardless and summer was weak and showing that. BUT ... a massacre at a local nightclub and then a child being plucked off a beach at the Grand Flo just took things to another level. People cancelled and many thinking about making plans to come decided against it. The question really is how soft is business going to get and how long it will last. I have no idea.

The staleness of the product (an overall vibe and one that Summer Awakens can't mask) as well as a decade of price gouging under Bob Iger may have hit that MAGIC tipping point. The horrors of June are just convincing people that they made a good choice in heading elsewhere.

Personally, I've gone every year of my life since I was 8 years old, up until two years ago. I haven't been back since 2014 and have no plans to go back until AT LEAST Pandora opens. I am going to Uni this year for the first time since '08...Disney doesn't care about that though, right @WDW1974 ?

You know Disney doesn't care. They'd much rather have new rubes, even if they are one and dones. What Disney and The Weatherman and Chappie and Co fail to get is that there isn't an endless supply of those people.

 

[No Name]

I almost fully disagree on your opinion of their response to the gator attack. It was 100% neccessary to remove the joke from the Jungle Cruise. It would've sounded idiotic and foolish to joke about a gator attack days after one happened. That "joke" will likely never return and never needs to.

The chomping gator in the Grand Floridian water show also needed to be removed. It's in a show at the Grand Floridian! And on water, where the attack occured! They would've been almost just as stupid to ignore that.

It would've also looked bad to open a new show with a dancing alligator only days after the attack happened. Can you imagine the negative media attention they would've gotten for that? The parade float thing, I think, was a good idea to temporarily remove. But I can see why you or other people would disagree with that. As long as it doesn't go away permanently, I think it's fine.

But the JC joke and the light show gator needed to go. Unquestionably. I'm glad they don't hire you or some others to run their marketing and PR.

EDIT: originally said that you should've posted this in another thread. However, I now realize that the mods do not want opinions in that thread. So nevermind on that.

 

[gmajew]

I am not buying the mass cancellations. I believe you have had some uptight moms that are complaining and worried and these are the same parents that cry and get mad that there kid is not good enough to play first base because he cannot catch. But they think he is a star.

It is normal to see a dip after bad press look at chipotle. Sales dropped 40 percent but 1000's of people were getting sick.

This is a horrible accident. The nut jobs will use it to bash Disney and cancel vacations. But again these are the people that don't let there kids play outside and think they are all special Hero.

And as of last night you were not sure you fire Him now you say yes. What changed?

 

[gmajew]

And FYI the jokes were on the jungle cruise today. Both times I rode.

I think everyone is now over reacting. Should they remove it from the state university mascot as well because a accident happened.

 

[Bocabear]

if it is a dip in atttendance it will be a small one and will be back up in no time...Likely Disney's reaction will not be big...nor really should it. The parks are currently busy year round...the quiet times of the year are not even very quiet anymore...all in all Disney is fine, and cancelling your vacation because of a tragic freak accident is just a knee jerk reaction... People drive cars at Disney World, and there have been fatal accidents...did anyone cancel their vacation over that? and should Disney then remove all references to automobiles on Disney property? of course not.
this was a tragedy, everyone will do what they can to prevent it from happening again, and people will get back to their lives...

 

[WDW1974]

As the spirit and others have stated, this is primarily just theater. However, sometimes that theater is needed and in our social media age if the theater didn't occur, WDW would be classified and pounded on as heartless. At least reacting is seen as 'handling' the problem. (not to try and open another can of words about proactive actions)

Theater bothers me because I have a functioning brain. I know that no one thing 'caused' Lane's death. A whole lot of things converged in just horrific fashion. That said, I KNOW that Disney has had a problem with Guests feeding gators because I have reported the behavior when I have seen it and I know friends (some cast) who have done likewise. I also KNOW (it's also been reported in various media) that Disney has in fact had Guests feeding them since the Poly DVC bungalows opened last year, which is certainly part of the reason there were so many in the area of such size. And I know that Disney did absolutely nothing to stop this illegal behavior on its property.

So, they haven't been proactive. BTW, the above is a large part of why I believe George Kalogridis should be fired as WDW Prez. Theater is fine for the rubes when you actually are addressing the core issues. WDW did nothing of the sort. It ignored them. And that is partly the reason a child is dead.

I can't imagine some of the theater will last long, at least regarding depictions of gators and crocs in the parks. I think we are probably in for a long period of beach limitations. And I would be interested to see if they have warnings/signs up in the bungalows about feeding alligators now.

I would hope you are right, but you never know. When Disney removes things (almost anything you can think of) there never is a plan to return them, just a nebulous 'this is temporary' thought line. It would be insane to have resorts on beaches and pretend the beaches don't exist and prevent Guests (many who come from colder climates) from sun and fun on those beaches. And those bungalows need not simply signage outside, but signed docs from Guests saying they won't feed them and likely a warning in the units as well.

 

[TalkingHead]

Can you imagine the negative media attention they would've gotten for that?

In case you haven't noticed, the news cycle has moved on, and the only hand-wringing is from Disney execs and fans who follow every move on property.

The stuff Spirit listed in the original post is overboard. I can't believe people would cancel vacations over the gator attack, but then I guess fan addiction isn't a rational thought process.

 

[hopemax]

When they removed the Starbucks mug with the purple monorail, they set the standard.

I also wonder if Zika is playing a role. No one thing is causing second thoughts, but the culmination of events, well there are other places to travel without having to think about tragic events.

 

[WDW1974]

What is Disney supposed to do in this situation? A situation that they haven't faced in 44 years?

Very simple: face the real issues that contributed to this tragedy and work to eliminate risks wherever humanly possible and mitigate others.

Taking Tic Toc out of a parade isn't doing a damn thing. It's lowest common denominator dealing ...

 

[FrankLapidus]

I'm sure the alligator-related things will return in time.

Whether full access to beaches at the resorts will remains to be seen. But it wouldn't surprise me if the fences they've since put up do remain permanently.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Not denying that at all. I agree. O-Town was in for a bad 2016 regardless and summer was weak and showing that. BUT ... a massacre at a local nightclub and then a child being plucked off a beach at the Grand Flo just took things to another level. People cancelled and many thinking about making plans to come decided against it. The question really is how soft is business going to get and how long it will last. I have no idea.

The staleness of the product (an overall vibe and one that Summer Awakens can't mask) as well as a decade of price gouging under Bob Iger may have hit that MAGIC tipping point. The horrors of June are just convincing people that they made a good choice in heading elsewhere.



You know Disney doesn't care. They'd much rather have new rubes, even if they are one and dones. What Disney and The Weatherman and Chappie and Co fail to get is that there isn't an endless supply of those people.

So, you're saying a decade of nothingness and skyrocketing gouging capped off by Disney's immersive new "Jurassic World" attraction has been....off putting?