Hakunamatata
Le Meh
Nope. I think we need to address the. Individuals with the propensity to use them illegally.
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News New security measures
- Thread starter RSD Part Deux
- Start date
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I'm denying gun control led to the conditions that made the Holocaust possible. I'm not sure if you're suggesting an armed Jewish populace that didn't exist prior to the Nazis coming to power could have overpowered the Nazis once they did, but we're going so far off topic that I won't ask!
photomatt
Well-Known Member
I'm an American. I'm a human. I'm someone who is a potential victim of of some nutjob using one of these assault rifles. That more than qualifies me to judge what firearms someone can privately own.
I would prefer to live in a world where coyotes and feral hogs roamed freely than one in which 50 people are murdered at a nightclub.
photomatt
Well-Known Member
How?
The nightclub shooter was a security guard who passed a background check. How would we identify his propensity?
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
What a coincidence. So am I and I have the same right to own one for protection or whatever legal purpose if I wanted to.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Even if that's the case, I struggle with justifying that all the deaths caused by assault weapons are worth that.
A bit of clever thinking could come up with solutions I'm sure. How about only shooting ranges can own them, or rental shops, and you have to have extensive background checks to rent one, and be escorted by a policeman while you manage your invasive species... there are solutions that don't involve open access to everyone, that anyone who genuinely needs a gun should have no problem with.
I'd love gun owners to put their money where their mouth is. Let the USA ban or introduce heavy restrictions on them for a limited, experimental time - say one year - and see what happens. If the cities descend into chaos with un-hunted wildlife running amock and deaths rise as people can't defend themselves, then bring back open access to guns, and shut the gun control lobby up for good.
But if death rates fall to similar levels as Western countries, then perhaps it is time to look at more restrictive rules after all.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I'm only saying that this was one piece of the puzzle for his overall goal of absolute power. Similar cases can be traced throughout history so forgive me if I'm not on board with limiting the second amendment of our country in any way.
Chester&Hester Enthusiast
Well-Known Member
What is wrong with you people?
50 (maybe more) of my brothers and sisters are dead in a senseless act of violence this morning.
A place that I consider a second home, where you were always safe and could always be yourself, leave your troubles at the door and be surrounded by love - has now been transformed in an instant into a place of unbearable pain and heartbreak.
We've lost friends, co-workers, lovers, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers. All in a single night. A night that was supposed to be fun. A night that was supposed to be filled with celebration.
Yet, here you sit having a ing match behind your keyboards over gun rights. It's fine if this tragedy does not affect you personally, but please understand that for many of us in Orlando and for those of us deeply ingrained in the LGBT community, and with the Pulse family, this is very personal.
This is not the time. This is not the place.
My heart is so heavy today.
50 (maybe more) of my brothers and sisters are dead in a senseless act of violence this morning.
A place that I consider a second home, where you were always safe and could always be yourself, leave your troubles at the door and be surrounded by love - has now been transformed in an instant into a place of unbearable pain and heartbreak.
We've lost friends, co-workers, lovers, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers. All in a single night. A night that was supposed to be fun. A night that was supposed to be filled with celebration.
Yet, here you sit having a ing match behind your keyboards over gun rights. It's fine if this tragedy does not affect you personally, but please understand that for many of us in Orlando and for those of us deeply ingrained in the LGBT community, and with the Pulse family, this is very personal.
This is not the time. This is not the place.
My heart is so heavy today.
photomatt
Well-Known Member
No.
You do not have the right to own an assault rifle. You are allowed to own one because the companies that manufacture those rifles spend millions of dollars buying congressmen to make sure no laws are passed to prevent this. You don't have the right to own a surface-to-air missile. You don't have the right to own a nuclear weapon. Muskets, rifles, handguns, missles, nuclear weapons are all considered "arms". Congress determines which ones you can own, and they do so based on what the manufacturers tell them.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
Ok. Again, I'm just giving the outsider's perspective that it seems strange Americans feel safer having an armed populace when the facts suggest it actually makes them more likely to get shot than those of us who live in countries that don't have one. Particularly when yet another mass shooting happens and someone starts evoking Hitler to justify not doing anything much about stopping these things from continuing to happen. It is a cultural difference more than anything, though, and I'll leave it up to all of you to fight this one out.
photomatt
Well-Known Member
When is the time? Where is the place?
Don't think that we don't understand your pain, or that we don't feel it. Everyone grieves differently, and everyone reacts differently.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
For many of us, it seems strange that other countries are okay with being unarmed.
photomatt
Well-Known Member
Maybe they are OK with it because people are not dying every day from gun violence.
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
I'm no constitutional scholar but the founding fathers allowed for the second amendment not so much out of a self defense against crime but as a self defense against a tyrannical government, which I would argue is as just as important today as it was when the country was formed.
Chester&Hester Enthusiast
Well-Known Member
Let's at least find out who has lived and who has died. I still don't even know if all of my friends made it out or who is in the hospital or anything that is going on.
Then we can have the annual argument that we have every time this happens. It solves nothing, and the people that can solve the issues don't seem too keen on doing so, but what the hell. Have at it.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
That's fine. You have your reasons. We have ours.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
When it was written, there was no standing army or law enforcement. Also, very real risk of getting eaten by bears.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Nothing good has ever happened in countries where the populace has been disarmed by the government, From the Pogroms of the Bolshevik revolution to WW II Germany and the mass murder of tens and hundreds of millions under Stalin and Mao to the killing fields of Cambodia.
Mao stated it best, 'Power grows from the barrel of a gun' in the US the governments worst urges have been restrained by the fact the armed population far exceeds that of the federal resources and to those who say with the modern military etc etc etc, Well a ragtag band of guerillas drove us from Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq with nothing more than small arms.
Anyone here want to bet that 'The Shrub' would have liked to round up all the Islamics and other troublemakers and put them in camps, But the mere fact that the population would have risen in an armed insurrection against such an evil act by the government prevented that preferred course of action.
As to the wildly overstated 'gun violence' stats 2/3 are suicides (they would have used another method) and 70% of the rest is gang on gang violence and all of a sudden you are left with in a country with 300 million people you are several times more likely to be shot by police than in an act of violence.
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
Both entities are government controlled.