Monorail Expansion

[backwoodsfarm]

We were at the parks a few weeks back and were talking with one of the older monorail drivers. During our conversation he said in the mid 2000s expansion had been discussed and construction had even started on concrete bases in the area of AK. But with the down turn in attendance in the mid 2000s the project was put on hold. This project was to include another TTC and Maintance area at Epcot. In our conversations he told me it has been brought up recently with the record breaking attendance. Just out of curiosity can anyone confirm this or just a monorail drive telling tall tales??

 

[DisneyDaver]

I have no inside information, but I can't see that happening. Way too expensive to extend the existing monorail lines to AK.

 

[Tom]

No

 

[montyz81]

If there were concrete bases poured, wouldn't we be able to see them from Google Maps?

 

[s8film40]

The sad thing to think about is the budget of the whole NGE project would have easily funded a massive monorail expansion.

So while we can say it's way too expensive, it is definitely within Disney's ability to do it they just don't want to.

 

[G00fyDad]

The sad thing to think about is the budget of the whole NGE project would have easily funded a massive monorail expansion.

So while we can say it's way too expensive, it is definitely within Disney's ability to do it they just don't want to.

I'd like to see some figures on that. (Not doubting you) I wonder how much more they spent on NGE than a monorail to AK and DHS.

 

[s8film40]

I'd like to see some figures on that. (Not doubting you) I wonder how much more they spent on NGE than a monorail to AK and DHS.

Well I have heard all sorts of number for the NGE project but I think it's generally assumed that $1 Billion+ was used.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/

For a comparison of what that money will buy in terms of monorail systems. The system Bombardier recently built in Brazil is pretty close in terms of budget, especially considering that cost included land purchases. That's a 24 km line with 17 stations and 54 seven-car trains

http://www.reuters.com/article/bombardier-brazil-idUSL2E8FDA4Z20120413

 

[sshindel]

The sad thing to think about is the budget of the whole NGE project would have easily funded a massive monorail expansion.

So while we can say it's way too expensive, it is definitely within Disney's ability to do it they just don't want to.

The information collected alone by the "next gen project" will add more value to Disney and to the average guest than a monorail would by leaps and bounds. Having a monorail between parks that are already effectively serviced by busses would add nothing, except maintenance expenses, that isn't already currently happening at the parks.

It's like investing in a brand new, 100" curved screen Ultra 4k TV in order to watch nothing but reruns of Mr. Ed. Sure, it'd be nice to look at, but would add no extra value to you that a vastly cheaper TV would.

 

[s8film40]

The information collected alone by the "next gen project" will add more value to Disney and to the average guest than a monorail would by leaps and bounds. Having a monorail between parks that are already effectively serviced by busses would add nothing, except maintenance expenses, that isn't already currently happening at the parks.

It's like investing in a brand new, 100" curved screen Ultra 4k TV in order to watch nothing but reruns of Mr. Ed. Sure, it'd be nice to look at, but would add no extra value to you that a vastly cheaper TV would.

I really don't think Disney is gaining as much as anticipated from the MB thing, the executive in charge losing his job is a pretty good sign of that.

Meanwhile people spend many hours of their vacation time sitting on buses. That's time that could be spent in shops and restaurants. I can't tell you how many people I've seen exit the MK at closing, realize they have a few hours and ask how to get to DTD. After getting directions they of course just say "never mind we'll just go back to the hotel". Moving people around your resort efficiently does indeed help revenue.

 

[sshindel]

I really don't think Disney is gaining as much as anticipated from the MB thing, the executive in charge losing his job is a pretty good sign of that.

Yet.
I've written about this before somewhere or another, but in order to really drive decisions based on the data that is/could be collected you need to have enough historical data to ensure that any modeling work that you do can be trained/validated. If you are trying to use locational guest data to predict something like very accurate daily transportation flows (predict by minute/hour each day's ebb and flow of guests through your transportation system), you need historical data to train your models so that they can accurately predict this. Now that we're solidly 2 years into data collection, they could build a model using one year's data, test it's predictive power against the 2nd, and see how well their models behave.

And a lot of the types of things that they could/should be looking at will not be visible to the average guest, or potentially even the well informed guest. It should be seamless, only manifesting in either a smoother visit for the guest, or a similarly smooth visit done much more efficiently for the company.

And the person in charge losing his job would have nothing at all to do with what Disney could/should do going forward. The project obviously went over time/budget, which could be seen as unjustifiable. That does not mean that they are not currently gaining insight from the data that is being provided.

Meanwhile people spend many hours of their vacation time sitting on buses. That's time that could be spent in shops and restaurants. I can't tell you how many people I've seen exit the MK at closing, realize they have a few hours and ask how to get to DTD. After getting directions they of course just say "never mind we'll just go back to the hotel". Moving people around your resort efficiently does indeed help revenue.

Agreed, but investment in the more efficient bus system would make loads more sense than investing in a monorail system expansion. It's "neat" technology and fun for the guest, but if you're looking for improving guests movement around the resort, the agility afforded by a massive bus system far outweighs a fairly static (by nature) monorail system.
Disney busses suck currently, I'll agree wholeheartedly. Improving this bus system would be FAR cheaper, and have FAR larger impact than investing in expanding the monorails.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I really don't think Disney is gaining as much as anticipated from the MB thing, the executive in charge losing his job is a pretty good sign of that.

A few things.

1. The MagicBand is a minuscule component of the NextGen project. It's the most visible to the guests, but Disney had decades of obsolete technical infrastructure that was overhauled as part of the project.

2. Relative to initial assumptions, NextGen is probably generating the output anticipated, or at least on track to do so. The problem is that it required far more input than budgeted. In other words, Disney approved the project on the premise that they would get XYZ benefits by spending ABC budget. The problem is not that the XYZ benefits aren't playing out, but that they went way over the ABC budget.

Meanwhile people spend many hours of their vacation time sitting on buses. That's time that could be spent in shops and restaurants. I can't tell you how many people I've seen exit the MK at closing, realize they have a few hours and ask how to get to DTD. After getting directions they of course just say "never mind we'll just go back to the hotel". Moving people around your resort efficiently does indeed help revenue.

The monorail is not efficient. Not by a long shot. It's perfectly efficient in a loop with three resorts and one theme park. It's perfectly efficient in a straight line from Epcot to the Magic Kingdom. It would be utterly inefficient connecting four parks and dozens of hotels. Rail doesn't work when you have so many endpoints because there's no flexibility. You'd either need a hub-and-spoke model or a series of loops, either of which would require multiple transfers to get from Point A to Point B.

Case-in-point: It takes 45 minutes to monorail from the Polynesian to the TTC, then transfer to a monorail to Epcot. From Fort Wilderness, it takes 15 minutes to take a bus to directly Epcot, despite the fact that Fort Wilderness is much further away as the crow flies.

 

[Master Yoda]

We were at the parks a few weeks back and were talking with one of the older monorail drivers. During our conversation he said in the mid 2000s expansion had been discussed and construction had even started on concrete bases in the area of AK. But with the down turn in attendance in the mid 2000s the project was put on hold. This project was to include another TTC and Maintance area at Epcot. In our conversations he told me it has been brought up recently with the record breaking attendance. Just out of curiosity can anyone confirm this or just a monorail drive telling tall tales??

As I understand it there was a plan in place. @marni1971 should know the details.

 

[sshindel]

As I understand it there was a plan in place. @marni1971 should know the details.

Were those footers ever found? I know people went looking for them!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Case-in-point: It takes 45 minutes to monorail from the Polynesian to the TTC, then transfer to a monorail to Epcot. From Fort Wilderness, it takes 15 minutes to take a bus to directly Epcot, despite the fact that Fort Wilderness is much further away as the crow flies.

Hope this is a typo, because it rarely takes more than 15 minutes to travel the entire loop, much less 45 just to the TTC. We have gotten on the monorail at the Poly, and been at EPCOT in about 35 minutes total - even with the transfer. Is a bus faster? Of course, but it isn't as much fun!

 

[Master Yoda]

Were those footers ever found? I know people went looking for them!

They were found. Bigfoot had been hiding them the whole time.

 

[Bob]

Were those footers ever found? I know people went looking for them!

No, but mysterious dirt piles were spotted.

 

[danlb_2000]

We were at the parks a few weeks back and were talking with one of the older monorail drivers. During our conversation he said in the mid 2000s expansion had been discussed and construction had even started on concrete bases in the area of AK. But with the down turn in attendance in the mid 2000s the project was put on hold. This project was to include another TTC and Maintance area at Epcot. In our conversations he told me it has been brought up recently with the record breaking attendance. Just out of curiosity can anyone confirm this or just a monorail drive telling tall tales??

Expansion to at least DHS was considered at one point, and maybe expansion beyond that but it never got to the point of any construction being done. If they had started building there would construction permits in the public record but these have never turned up.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Hope this is a typo, because it rarely takes more than 15 minutes to travel the entire loop, much less 45 just to the TTC

45 minutes to Epcot, not the TTC.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

I would think (and I may well be wrong) with their huge income, some of their wasted money on bad movies (*coughJohnCartercough*) could have easily funded monorail expansion in WDW. Maybe setting aside money normally reserved for film development - for a time - could fund such an endeavor.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

45 minutes to Epcot, not the TTC.

45 minute by monorail to Epcot? Not by a long shot.