Monorail Expansion

[Master Yoda]

45 minute by monorail to Epcot? Not by a long shot.

It is indeed about 45 minutes on average. Granted you can cut that short if you are staying on the side next to the TTC and walk over, but to take the resort monorail to the TTC and then transfer to the Epcot line is about 45 minutes from door to door.

Don't believe me, go to the link and see for yourself.

http://www.ourlaughingplace.com/aspx/twiz.aspx

 

[CaptainAmerica]

45 minute by monorail to Epcot? Not by a long shot.

Touring Plans and Laughing Place both say I'm right.

ETA: People often criticize the transportation at DAKL because it doesn't offer a boat or monorail to any of the parks. I particularly prefer the AKL transportation precisely for that reason. The boats and monorails are nice experiences here and there, but I can get my fill from a meal on the monorail loop or at Fort Wilderness without relying on the much slower form of transportation when my goal is to get place to place as quickly as possible.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Once they redevelop TTC, how about less expensive light rails (rails on the ground, can have bridges/tunnels where needed) doing express and resort loops to DHS and AK? The would be fast, more comfortable, more fun/magical, and provide another reason to stay on property.

Short of that, how about at least non-standard buses, like those amazing ones at Tokyo Disney, for the purpose of their feeling more special/magical?

Finally, can they start building out separate bus roads alongside the main highways, with shrubbery to also visually separate them? Seeing fewer cars would make bus transport feel more magical as well.

 

[s8film40]

Touring Plans and Laughing Place both say I'm right.

ETA: People often criticize the transportation at DAKL because it doesn't offer a boat or monorail to any of the parks. I particularly prefer the AKL transportation precisely for that reason. The boats and monorails are nice experiences here and there, but I can get my fill from a meal on the monorail loop or at Fort Wilderness without relying on the much slower form of transportation when my goal is to get place to place as quickly as possible.

The current monorail system is irrelevant to discussion of expansion of the system. The monorail system shouldn't just be expanded but also redesigned. Both the monorail and bus systems at WDW are very outdated. Both could also work very well together. WDW has five major destinations, these could benefit from having a quick and efficient way of moving large numbers of people between them and then to the smaller destinations. Monorails are a perfect solution for moving the larger numbers between the key destinations while buses are more suited and can be more efficiently used to circulate through the smaller more specific destinations.

 

[Master Yoda]

Once they redevelop TTC, how about less expensive light rails (rails on the ground, can have bridges/tunnels where needed) doing express and resort loops to DHS and AK? The would be fast, more comfortable, more fun/magical, and provide another reason to stay on property.

Short of that, how about at least non-standard buses, like those amazing ones at Tokyo Disney, for the purpose of their feeling more special/magical?

Finally, can they start building out separate bus roads alongside the main highways, with shrubbery to also visually separate them? Seeing fewer cars would make bus transport feel more magical as well.

Light rail has many of the same problems the monorail does. First and foremost it is inflexible. When a train goes down the potential for an entire line going down is very high. You also cant easily adjust capacity based on demand.

You also run into the problem of interaction with car traffic. You have the potential for an accident every place a rail line crosses traffic. Te easiest solution for that is to elevate the track, but if you do that, the majority of the cost savings evaporate and you might as well go with the ultra magical monorail.

 

[Bob]

Light rail has many of the same problems the monorail does. First and foremost it is inflexible. When a train goes down the potential for an entire line going down is very high. You also cant easily adjust capacity based on demand.

You also run into the problem of interaction with car traffic. You have the potential for an accident every place a rail line crosses traffic. Te easiest solution for that is to elevate the track, but if you do that, the majority of the cost savings evaporate and you might as well go with the ultra magical monorail.

I bet if Comcast was running things, they'd install a hyperloop all around the property.

 

[s8film40]

Light rail has many of the same problems the monorail does. First and foremost it is inflexible. When a train goes down the potential for an entire line going down is very high. You also cant easily adjust capacity based on demand.

You also run into the problem of interaction with car traffic. You have the potential for an accident every place a rail line crosses traffic. Te easiest solution for that is to elevate the track, but if you do that, the majority of the cost savings evaporate and you might as well go with the ultra magical monorail.

Monorail is technically light rail. There are many areas at WDW where monorail could and should be built at grade. The Epcot monorail is a great example of this, most of the line could be ground level as it goes along side the roadways. And certainly rail traffic should never be mixed with automobile traffic

As for the inflexibility of rail systems I think we need to stop thinking in the past. A modern system would have plenty of flexibility, in many cases more so than buses do.

 

[Master Yoda]

Monorail is technically light rail. There are many areas at WDW where monorail could and should be built at grade. The Epcot monorail is a great example of this, most of the line could be ground level as it goes along side the roadways. And certainly rail traffic should never be mixed with automobile traffic

As for the inflexibility of rail systems I think we need to stop thinking in the past. A modern system would have plenty of flexibility, in many cases more so than buses do.

Explain. I can see more flexibility that the current monorail system, but as much as buses will take some convincing.

 

[s8film40]

Explain. I can see more flexibility that the current monorail system, but as much as buses will take some convincing.

A modern monorail system can very quickly add remove trains as needed, bypass stations and switch lines as needed.

The Las Vegas system for example was designed to shift for heavy and light flows of traffic. The stations are all built 8 cars long and the 4 car trains can couple and de-couple to expand or reduce capacity. Not many buses can change their capacity.

 

[Master Yoda]

A modern monorail system can very quickly add remove trains as needed, bypass stations and switch lines as needed.

The Las Vegas system for example was designed to shift for heavy and light flows of traffic. The stations are all built 8 cars long and the 4 car trains can couple and de-couple to expand or reduce capacity. Not many buses can change their capacity.

True, but you can easily add more buses. Done correctly with staging areas and on call drivers it can happen at the drop of a hat.

How long does it take a modern monorail to add a train onto a rail? Is there not a limit to how many that can be added?

 

[s8film40]

True, but you can easily add more buses. Done correctly with staging areas and on call drivers it can happen at the drop of a hat.

How long does it take a modern monorail to add a train onto a rail? Is there not a limit to how many that can be added?

Well with buses you have to get a driver and have that driver delivered to where the buses are parked. It's not very efficient to pay people to just sit in buses and be ready to go.

Monorails on the other hand can have storage facilities at either end of the line or also located at key points. The operator at the control center simply sends a command to the system to add a train it can all happen automatically at the press of a button.

 

[Bob]

True, but you can easily add more buses. Done correctly with staging areas and on call drivers it can happen at the drop of a hat.

How long does it take a modern monorail to add a train onto a rail? Is there not a limit to how many that can be added?

I think that all off duty CM's should be given an i3 and then a new Uber like function should be built into MDE. Pretty sure that would still be a cheaper solution than expanding the monorail.

 

[Master Yoda]

Well with buses you have to get a driver and have that driver delivered to where the buses are parked. It's not very efficient to pay people to just sit in buses and be ready to go.

Monorails on the other hand can have storage facilities at either end of the line or also located at key points. The operator at the control center simply sends a command to the system to add a train it can all happen automatically at the press of a button.

And what happens with the aforementioned breakdown?

 

[s8film40]

And what happens with the aforementioned breakdown?

Well breakdowns shouldn't happen first of all. The current WDW system is very poorly maintained and breakdown issues aren't handled the way they should be. Monorails and even the existing Mark VI trains are designed to be redundant. The Mark VI for example has two completely separate groups of everything on the train with the ability to use just one independently if something goes wrong. This would be like a bus having two completely separate engines and drive trains.

Beyond that with the correct switches in place a monorail could be bypassed around a disabled train while it's being towed.

Of course breakdowns aren't just an issue for trains but busses also. I've personally seen the entire MK bus loop shut down due to a disabled bus.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Light rail has many of the same problems the monorail does. First and foremost it is inflexible. When a train goes down the potential for an entire line going down is very high. You also cant easily adjust capacity based on demand.

You also run into the problem of interaction with car traffic. You have the potential for an accident every place a rail line crosses traffic. Te easiest solution for that is to elevate the track, but if you do that, the majority of the cost savings evaporate and you might as well go with the ultra magical monorail.

I wasn't so much thinking of light rails as an efficiency improvement over monorails, but as an alternative to buses that wouldn't be as expensive as monorails. In other words, if we don't like buses, and monorails are too expensive, how about ground-based light rails.

I don't know for sure about the costs, but off hand it seems unlikely that a few raised sections over roads would come to the same cost as a monorail beam that's raised the entire route (e.g., imagine the current Epcot monorail vs a train that's raised only when it crosses the road).

 

[s8film40]

I wasn't so much thinking of light rails as an efficiency improvement over monorails, but as an alternative to buses that wouldn't be as expensive as monorails. In other words, if we don't like buses, and monorails are too expensive, how about ground-based light rails.

I don't know for sure about the costs, but off hand it seems unlikely that a few raised sections over roads would come to the same cost as a monorail beam that's raised the entire route (e.g., imagine the current Epcot monorail vs a train that's raised only when it crosses the road).

Light rail, wether it be dual rail or monorail can be built either elevated or at grade. There isn't really any real difference in cost between what most people typically identify as light rail versus monorail.

When discussing costs it's also important not to forget to factor the salaries of drivers for buses in versus automated trains. One train can effectively eliminate 18 full time jobs. That's approximately $450,000 a year.

 

[Master Yoda]

I wasn't so much thinking of light rails as an efficiency improvement over monorails, but as an alternative to buses that wouldn't be as expensive as monorails. In other words, if we don't like buses, and monorails are too expensive, how about ground-based light rails.

I don't know for sure about the costs, but off hand it seems unlikely that a few raised sections over roads would come to the same cost as a monorail beam that's raised the entire route (e.g., imagine the current Epcot monorail vs a train that's raised only when it crosses the road).

Raising or lowering the road is not always possible.

Florida's high water table make going under only possible in particular locations. Going over take a good deal of room depending on how high you need to go (a road can only slope up and down so much).

For light rail the allowed grade is about half or less than what you can do for auto traffic making taking it over car traffic even harder.

 

[s8film40]

For light rail the allowed grade is about half or less than what you can do for auto traffic making taking it over car traffic even harder.

Monorails are capable of a 6% - 10% grade. I assume this is higher than traditional rail due to their greater traction, but I'm not sure.

 

[Master Yoda]

Monorails are capable of a 6% - 10% grade. I assume this is higher than traditional rail due to their greater traction, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, I looked it up. Light rail tries to stick to a 6%-7% grade. I think monorails can go slightly higher the light rail due to rubber vs steel wheels.

Cars can do double that on the low end of the recommended grade for an overpass.

 

[s8film40]

Yeah, I looked it up. Light rail tries to stick to a 6%-7% grade. I think monorails can go slightly higher the light rail due to rubber vs steel wheels.

Cars can do double that on the low end of the recommended grade for an overpass.

Bombardier claims a maximum of 10% with 6% recommended for rider comfort. Looks like the standard maximum for the interstate system is 6%. Seems 6% is the standard maximum across the board not necessarily for technical reasons but for comfort. Of course the smart choice would be to split the difference and have the road go down a little if possible while the transit goes up a little or vice versa.