A Redistribution of [Wealth] Fastpass+

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
This is all interesting. Of course it basically proves that Fastpass does increase the standby wait time to more than it would be without Fastpass at all, and everything would be easier and faster without it.

But, ya know.

At the very least, I'm happy that more people are taking the time to ride the less popular attractions.
 

dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
This is all interesting. Of course it basically proves that Fastpass does increase the standby wait time to more than it would be without Fastpass at all, and everything would be easier and faster without it.

But if you go from a 15 min standby wait for A and a 60 min standby wait for B, to a 30 min standby wait for A and a 5 min FP wait for B, isn't the overall time savings a benefit? (Not saying these are actual times) Nor am I trying to start yet another FP benefit debate.
 

natatomic

Well-Known Member
But if you go from a 15 min standby wait for A and a 60 min standby wait for B, to a 30 min standby wait for A and a 5 min FP wait for B, isn't the overall time savings a benefit? (Not saying these are actual times) Nor am I trying to start yet another FP benefit debate.

It depends on how much attraction A actually increases and how much B actually decreases. If A = Space Ship Earth or Maelstrom or Living with the Land, and B = Test Track or Soarin', then of COURSE that would be awesome. But the actual numbers are more like SSE going from 15 minutes to 20 and Test Track going from 60 to 55 (or Soarin' going from 60 to 57). It's more of a wash than anything.

But even it being a wash isn't true, because to have these E-ticket wait times decrease, we as guests have had to give up (forcefully, through FP+) our ability to get multiple fastpasses for the same attraction. So maybe I am now saving 5 minutes in TT's stand-by line, but I'm actually spending 45 extra minutes for that second ride, because before I would just get a set of FPs first thing in the morning and then another set in two hours for later in the day (if still available, though honestly this is just a hypothetical situation...replace TT with any E-ticket attraction aside from Toy Story which so rarely had FPs left by 11 o'clock...and now rarely have FPs left by 9:05).
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
But even it being a wash isn't true, because to have these E-ticket wait times decrease, we as guests have had to give up (forcefully, through FP+) our ability to get multiple fastpasses for the same attraction.
I suspect that most people are going to combat that issue by simply riding the ride once. I get that this might be a completely unacceptable solution for some guests, but I think that most people will not wait in a long line for a ride that they've already FPed. They will instead go wait in some other line or work the '4th FP+' system. Either way, their behavior would tend to further the plan to distribute guests to other attractions.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
Redistributing crowds always was a major selling point within the company.

Years ago, before HP, before Carsland, when Disney thought theme parks had hit their peak, FP+ was partly cooked up as a way to artificially absorb crowds without needing to invest in new E-tickets. Theoretically, if DVC and nostalgia kept guests pouring into the parks, why would Disney need to do anything except make sure guests were constantly being shuffled around?

The idea works on paper; too bad Disney forgot that stagnation eventually leads to boredom—especially if your competition up the interstate decides to start investing in top-quality attractions. Now we have Pandora, NFL, and eventually Star Wars; but there's also a $2.5 billion (and counting) elephant looming over the coming fun.

It's true that Disney never could have predicted Comcast's Uni bid, but about 32 years ago, Disney innovated simply because it could.
I'm not seeing how the bolded bit is true. If your post is correct and the company is committing to building attractions, then how does the fact that they've already invested in MM+ loom over anything? Why does MM+'s price tag matter?
 

natatomic

Well-Known Member
I suspect that most people are going to combat that issue by simply riding the ride once. I get that this might be a completely unacceptable solution for some guests, but I think that most people will not wait in a long line for a ride that they've already FPed. They will instead go wait in some other line or work the '4th FP+' system. Either way, their behavior would tend to further the plan to distribute guests to other attractions.

Right, which, I suspect, is one reason why the stand-by lines are slightly lessening. Less re-rides, more FPs for everyone to use once, less people waiting in Standby... It all depends on how you used the previous system as to whether or not your are hurt or helped with the new system.

My favorite system, however, is still the one where no FPs exist at all. STANDBY4EVER, baby!
 
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GeneralZod

Well-Known Member
Affleck= noun, as in, "Ben Affleck will suck as Batman in the upcoming Justice League movie."
Cool. I'd like to pick your brain on this since you have obviously seen it. I don't want any spoilers, but how exactly did he suck? Did they make any updates to Supes' suit? Would you say it is more in the vein of the New 52? Did they successfully transition him to his conflicted boy scout persona? I'm also a little nervous about this incarnation of Wonder Woman...how did Gadot do? Lots more non-spoiler questions if you don't mind.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
I know much ado was made about FP+ not being able to increase capacity in response to Rasolu's statement that it had, but this suggests to me that it can increase practical capacity (but not theoretical capacity).
:

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. By moving FP+ users to what were traditionally underutilized attractions, it's lowering the waits at headliners and increasing practical capacity.

Thanks for reading the post, y'all.

FWIW, we've re-run the analysis to check the effect of each park's individual attendance increases, to look at the effect of the DAS on some capacity-constrained attractions, and to use the Wilcoxon signed rank test (because wait times are multiples of 5, not continuous). No major changes in results. Still not causation, but let's keep in mind that setting the posted wait times isn't the most scientifically controlled process either.

Len
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
I'm in favor of anything that stops the running of the bulls known as rope drop at HS where guests trampled each other to get to Toy Story. Or, does that still happen?

Yes, building more rides would help too but at least Disney is trying to improve the experience.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
Honestly I have no problem waiting 25 minutes for Pirates if I only have to wait 30 min for Space or Splash. From what the data says the E ticket wait times are increasing and the D or C tickets are going up. So in theory it seems instead of waiting 60 min. to ride just Space you now can ride space and Pirates in 60 min.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
Cool. I'd like to pick your brain on this since you have obviously seen it. I don't want any spoilers, but how exactly did he suck? Did they make any updates to Supes' suit? Would you say it is more in the vein of the New 52? Did they successfully transition him to his conflicted boy scout persona? I'm also a little nervous about this incarnation of Wonder Woman...how did Gadot do? Lots more non-spoiler questions if you don't mind.

It's called a joke. But thanks for taking time out of your busy day and writing your thought provoking words of wisdom. When I do see it we can compare notes.



Also Affleck sucked as Daredevil.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This is all interesting. Of course it basically proves that Fastpass does increase the standby wait time to more than it would be without Fastpass at all, and everything would be easier and faster without it.

But, ya know.

At the very least, I'm happy that more people are taking the time to ride the less popular attractions.
Well, more people are using it and it's on more attractions. Anyone that passed 2nd grade math could determine that it would have an effect on standby lines. What's conceivable though is that less people are willing to wait in standby lines and more people will now prefer to use Fastpass+.

With that concept in place, I'm guessing one of the metrics Disney could theoretically exploit is more efficient touring for all guests. @lentesta has told us previously that it's not inconceivable to have 40K guests all scheduled like a computer program. But of course that presents a large degree of variables that unfortunately aren't constant. Even still, by getting more guests to use Fastpass, theoretically Disney can get guests to their magic # of 10 rides, shows or "spectaculars" quicker in the day. In a hyper scheduled world this could be a decrease in park hours, a decrease in operations cost and another way to cut costs while theoretically not hurting the guest experience.

This is all good in concept, but the reality is Disney can't get a solid wi-fi signal or an app that loads in under 45 seconds without bugs. But in their defense they only invested $2 billion, give it another $2 billion and I'm sure the My Disney Experience app will be almost as good as "Lines".
 
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Kman101

Well-Known Member
Now that I have a phone that I can get the MDE app on, it's very glitchy. I don't like that you have to constantly sign back in. It loads slow and when you go to tap something it taps something else. It's actually frustrating. The intent really is good. The idea itself is good, really, but the execution just seems to fail.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
Now that I have a phone that I can get the MDE app on, it's very glitchy. I don't like that you have to constantly sign back in. It loads slow and when you go to tap something it taps something else. It's actually frustrating. The intent really is good. The idea itself is good, really, but the execution just seems to fail.

There was an update a few days ago. Do you have the latest version?
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
There was an update a few days ago. Do you have the latest version?

Unless it updated automatically, probably not. I haven't gone into the app in a few days, actually. Hopefully the bugs got fixed. I really never complain about apps, but theirs was just ... frustrating and I'm a pretty patient person, lol.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
Unless it updated automatically, probably not. I haven't gone into the app in a few days, actually. Hopefully the bugs got fixed. I really never complain about apps, but theirs was just ... frustrating and I'm a pretty patient person, lol.

The new version looks better and is faster from what I can tell. If you get bored, force the update and see what you think.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Well, more people are using it and it's on more attractions. Anyone that passed 2nd grade math could determine that it would have an effect on standby lines. What's conceivable though is that less people are willing to wait in standby lines and more people will now prefer to use Fastpass+.
Well for the longest time, this board was split down the middle between those who realized this and those who would state that the standby line would be just as long because "everyone in the Fastpass line would now be in the standby line". But that is false and its more complicated than that.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I know much adieu was made about FP+ not being able to increase capacity in response to Rasolu's statement that it had, but this suggests to me that it can increase practical capacity (but not theoretical capacity).

Say, for example, that park-wide theoretical capacity is 30,000 guests (totally made up number--obviously wrong), a number that consists of attractions, queues, gift shops--basically everywhere that Disney will count as "occupied" by guests. Let's also say that 1,000 of that is for Living with the Land, an attraction that never fully utilized its theoretical capacity. This would thus reduce the park's practical capacity, because people weren't going there and it was not operating at <100% efficiency, so it was below its theoretical capacity.

I guess the question, then, is whether capacity during peak times (for phased closing purposes) is determined by practical or theoretical capacity?

Disclosure: I know very little about statistics--just enough to be dangerous, so I could have missed something very basic. I'm also *not* defending FP+ as a legitimate means of "increasing" park capacity.

Well back in 2004 - The Old days - We in research were dragged into a town hall meeting and the forecasting people were by far the most interesting. Now I can't speak to how it works today, but park capacity in those days was determined by a hard number of guests inside the park at any given moment, and if i recall that was determined by the fire marshall. Back in the days of turnstyles, they had a pretty good count of how many guests were in the park at a given moment, not sure how they do that right now. They also said that back then the aim for Phase 4 was to be 15 minutes or less.

(BTW the best way to ever beat a Phased Close at MK is to take a bus to Wilderness Lodge and then take a boat to MK)

Long story short, I dont think it matters between practical/theoretical capacity; instead it is/was a fire marshall determination.

Considering we've gone a few holiday crowds without hitting phase 3/4, I'm not sure it matters.
 

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