Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Funmeister]

That's not a great example as all of the resorts you mentioned are hard pressed for space, Orlando is the only place TDC was able to get a massive amount of land because they did it in secret and it was a swampland when they did.

I totally understand what you are saying and having an all inclusive resort that WDW is WAS the right recipe for success. It worked when Disney was efficient and a machine when it came to servicing guests but they lost that. It is much more economical NOT to have to worry about internal transportation when parks are right next to each other.

WHat you are saying worked for WDW 1971 to WDW early 1990's but sadly not anymore. Guests now have reasons to venture outside the magic gates to other exciting adventures. Because of that the business model of an all inclusive 23,000+ acre resort is dead.

 

[RyenDeckard]

Correct...in the late 1960's. Who is hard pressed for space? I have not heard any projects being cancelled because of lack of space.

Land, land at all of those resorts are incredibly expensive to purchase, and in the cases of Hong Kong and Shanghai, nonexistent.

I totally understand what you are saying and having an all inclusive resort that WDW is WAS the right recipe for success. It worked when Disney was efficient and a machine when it came to servicing guests but they lost that. It is much more economical NOT to have to worry about internal transportation when parks are right next to each other.

WHat you are saying worked for WDW 1971 to WDW early 1990's but sadly not anymore. Guests now have reasons to venture outside the magic gates to other exciting adventures. Because of that the business model of an all inclusive 23,000+ acre resort is dead.

I agree, but WDW has gone all in with that model. Trying to change it now would be disastrous for them, even if it's something that will have to be done in the future if they let Uni get too far ahead.

 

[marni1971]

I did. Loved it then love it now. Times change things change offering change. Do I think they need to step it up {%^> YES but I can still have a good time just like millions of other people.

There you go then. You answered your own question.

 

[rioriz]

if Disney built Transformers and it had as many problems as it does right now at Uni... everyone would be upset and thinking Disney is going to shut the doors and go under

While it is kinda cool to see the Springfield come to life the whole thing screams Dino Rama to me...and unfortunately more Midway Games are gonna clutter up Jurrasic Park...I will enjoy the Beer Gardens though!

 

[WDW1974]

I made a big mistake last night after concluding an important phone call with a friend in Europe by wading back here. This thread has become something I refuse to devote hours a day to. I'm sorry. I'm ignoring anything before page 27 and trying to focus on only topics of import. If you have questions, now might be the time to try and ask them.

 

[Funmeister]

Land, land at all of those resorts are incredibly expensive to purchase, and in the cases of Hong Kong and Shanghai, nonexistent.

You are right but they have master plans where they have room to add another theme park or two if the market calls for it. They do not need room for five more parks. There is not a place in the world that would be able to support a resort with 4+ theme parks. (Ok, maybe Dubai but we all see what happened there.)

It is 2013 and I am still not convinced that WDW can support the four parks it has. To think there were talks of announcing a 5th gate on the heels of DAK at one point. Ludicrous!

It makes no business sense to offer all of these theme parks, water parks and shopping districts if you do not have a quick easy seamless way to get people around to spend $$$. The sad thing is that DIsney did have plans to have monorails running all over the place which would have supported the "spread out" model. Problem is they did not follow through.

If you ever have a chance time yourself and count the number of lines you have to wait in from the MK toll plaza to standing at the flag pole on Main St. USA in the Magic Kingdom. (Based on 4 average guest who do not know of any shortcuts and who is visiting for the first time.)

Line #1 - Toll Plaza
Line #2 - Waiting to be directed to your parking spot by Cast Member
Line #3 - Waiting for Tram
Line #4 - TTC Ticket Window
Line #5- Monorail or Watercraft
Line #6 - Security Bag Check
Line #7 - Turnstile (Sure Magic Band helps get through quicker but even so you sill still have to wait in a line to get in)

Calculate wait time for all of those lines and do not forget actual travel time in addition to wait times.

$95+ tax multiplied by four?

Sounds magical to me!

 

[Funmeister]

@WDW1974 News on Toon Lagoon replacement? Studios attraction on chopping block?

Most important...Have you ever been to Parc Asterix?

 

[WDWDad13]

You are right but they have master plans where they have room to add another theme park or two if the market calls for it. They do not need room for five more parks. There is not a place in the world that would be able to support a resort with 4+ theme parks. (Ok, maybe Dubai but we all see what happened there.)

It is 2013 and I am still not convinced that WDW can support the four parks it has. To think there were talks of announcing a 5th gate on the heels of DAK at one point. Ludicrous!

It makes no business sense to offer all of these theme parks, water parks and shopping districts if you do not have a quick easy seamless way to get people around to spend $$$. The sad thing is that DIsney did have plans to have monorails running all over the place which would have supported the "spread out" model. Problem is they did not follow through.

If you ever have a chance time yourself and count the number of lines you have to wait in from the MK toll plaza to standing at the flag pole on Main St. USA in the Magic Kingdom. (Based on 4 average guest who do not know of any shortcuts and who is visiting for the first time.)

Line #1 - Toll Plaza
Line #2 - Waiting to be directed to your parking spot by Cast Member
Line #3 - Waiting for Tram
Line #4 - TTC Ticket Window
Line #5- Monorail or Watercraft
Line #6 - Security Bag Check
Line #7 - Turnstile (Sure Magic Band helps get through quicker but even so you sill still have to wait in a line to get in)

Calculate wait time for all of those lines and do not forget actual travel time in addition to wait times.

$95+ tax multiplied by four?

Sounds magical to me!


Calculate how much time, including travel time,

it's not $95 x four first off unless you buy single park day tickets

and while I know they need to spice up what they have first... BIG TIME... once that is done, along with Disney Springs, a 5th park (if done correctly... yeah I know lol) might help people stay on property once again all week

I also think at some point Disney is going to have to look at all resort rooms including DVC studio rooms and turn 2 into 1 larger room or something along those lines...

 

[Sue_Vongello]

I made a big mistake last night after concluding an important phone call with a friend in Europe by wading back here. This thread has become something I refuse to devote hours a day too. I'm sorry. I'm ignoring anything before page 27 and trying to focus on only topics of import. If you have questions, now might be the time to try and ask them.

Repost:

You know? Shockingly enough I'm with you on the epiphany ... I thought I wanted to hear about the bands, what may or may not be announced at D23, and/or news on SW/Avatar ... but honestly I just don't care.

What is really like to know is all about Universal?

-Are they really considering a monorail?

-Is this the current line up for the next few years ... HP/2014, JP/2015, KK/2016 ... and internally do they expect to keep the pace up for ... how long?

-Has the third gate at Uni gone an inch further since you last brought it up?

-What are their plans for Wet n Wild?

-Kidzone refurb? LotR?

-And finally do you have any info from inside the upper echelon at Uni ... I'd love to know (and love to have it publicly out there) if the Uni execs are laughing at Disney right now? What's their current state?

 

[rioriz]

Preach.

I get there's going to be back and forth, (I'm guilty myself) but I'd think this thread would be best served with @WDW1974 posts and questions regarding those posts. We might keep this down to under a 100 pages of actual viable information.

You know what? We really need a whole other section on these forums called:

"Two Sides to Everything: Battlezone"
Or
"Pixie Dusters vs.Doom n' Gloomers: Fight to the Death"

no moderators -- everyone can go in there and blow off steam, hurt each others feelings and continue on with their day. I think we would also need some new emoticons

I've been trying to say this for days...For example look at the Spirit Threads: DHS Closings and Two Spirited Quickies

Love the info but when there is less vagueness and straight to the point content there leaves little room for people to speculate and muddle up the thread. Start a new thread when you're truly ready to divulge.

 

[Funmeister]

it's not $95 x four first off unless you buy single park day tickets

and while I know they need to spice up what they have first... BIG TIME... once that is done, along with Disney Springs, a 5th park (if done correctly... yeah I know lol) might help people stay on property once again all week

I also think at some point Disney is going to have to look at all resort rooms including DVC studio rooms and turn 2 into 1 larger room or something along those lines...

Sorry I meant one day tickets. I apologize if I implied multi-day or multi-park tickets. That scenario was strictly based on a one day visit for new guests to the MK.

 

[MattM]

Universal has an arguably better location than Disney does if you are doing a multi-resort Orlando vacation. You're close to, obviously, the Universal Orlando Resort, the Seaworld resort area, International Drive, and a 20 minute drive from Disney.

With Universal you are right on top of everything that isn't Disney, which is a whole lot.

Yes, in terms of being geographically centered in the Greater Orlando area, I suppose you could make the argument that UNI is in a better spot.

But the best parts (in terms of the tourism industry) of Orlando aren't in the geographical center. They're in the southwest corner. Go look at lots for sale on 535 vs Kirkman Rd and tell me which ones are more expensive.

 

[WDW1974]

So there were some mentions of Star Wars in this thread...any news on that front that you can share?

Star Wars has been pushed to the front of the expansion plans for DL's T-land and TPFKaTD-MGMS's Extreme Makeover. If the financial issues are dealt with in Paris, then I'd expect to see the same things wind up at DLP as well. Nothing has changed on the plans or the like ... asking the same question over and over isn't going to make this get done faster. Nothing will open before 2016 at the earliest for any park, and you're most likely looking at the 2017-18 frame. Can we move beyond Star Wars?

 

[Funmeister]

it's not $95 x four first off unless you buy single park day tickets

and while I know they need to spice up what they have first... BIG TIME... once that is done, along with Disney Springs, a 5th park (if done correctly... yeah I know lol) might help people stay on property once again all week

I also think at some point Disney is going to have to look at all resort rooms including DVC studio rooms and turn 2 into 1 larger room or something along those lines...

5th Gate? 5th Gate? Playoffs? Playoffs? LOL

They cannot fill the parks and resorts they have and you want a fifth gate! ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WDWDad13]

Star Wars has been pushed to the front of the expansion plans for DL's T-land and TPFKaTD-MGMS's Extrem Makeovover. If the financial issues are dealt with in Paris, then I'd expect to see the same things wind up at DLP as well. Nothing has changed on the plans or the like ... asking the saem question over and over isn't going to make this get done faster. Nothing will open before 2016 at the earliest for any park, and you're most likely looking at the 2017-18 frame. Can we move beyond Star Wars?

I agree... we need MORE than Star Wars

 

[danlb_2000]

I just don't understand all the negativity. Why can't we all just go to ORLANDO and have a good time and enjoy what everyone has to offer for us. Beer's on me (as long as its not butterbeer lol)

Because a lot of the people here remember Disney when they weren't like this and are frustrated with the direction of the company. If people aren't happy with the way things are they should just accept it.

 

[bcalltimandanna]

Spirit, what do you see for Imagination? And thank you for coming back to this mess.

 

[MattM]

It's not a double standard.. you're looking at the outcoming and missing the real point which is how they got there.

Disney was known for stepping into a new market.. and then doing things BETTER than everyone else. The admiration was their ability to pickup a new market and then dominate it. Simply by partnering... Disney is no longer doing that, and basically retreating and admitting someone else can do it better.

Uni never had that expectation that they would pickup new capabilities and redefine the market like Disney would. That is what the comparison about partnering is about... not so much about who the hotel is ran by.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, necessarily.

But really, did Disney ever really do lodging better than the big guys out there? I mean, really do it better? Sure, they have the parks and what not about it that probably add to the aura of the experience. But I would never say that the Grand Floridian, even back in its heyday, was a better experience than a 4 Seasons or Ritz Carlton or even lesser known boutique chains.

I'll ask though, what is UNI's intent or expectation with building Cabana Bay? (or whatever its called?)

I hope they succeed.

 

[luv]

OK, I can't read all these pages. Was anything of substance said?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

@WDW1974, Can you tell us more about Alan Horn's discontentment at Disney?