Train to Port Canaveral possible

[PeterAlt]

The one detail we have is their estimated 3 hour travel time from Miami to MCO. The drive for that is just under 3.5 hours. If that 3 hours is train leaves Miami and arrives at MCO 3 hours later you still have to tack on getting to the train station, parking boarding etc. That could be 30-60 minutes easy putting us right back where we started.

I would hope that a private company would have thought this out, but it would not be the first time that someone let an idea get in the way of common sense. It is real easy to cherry pick data and twist market surveys to tell you whatever they want.

Right, (caution: this is from vague memory of things I read a long time ago) but you need to understand the company's motiv here. The FEC was Florida tycoon Henry Flagler's company. Flagler had high ambitions for the company with the dream of bringing the railroad to Key West. His dream was realized but partially caused a flooding diring a huricane where hundreds died in Key West. The generations that inherited the company were less ambitious and the company has been in a state of decline ever since. In recent years a new generation has inherited the company. This generation has the ambition of its founder. They want to bring it back to where it was during the glory days. AAF is part of this newly found ambition and excitement within the company.

 

[alphac2005]

Interesting responses, rude, unthinking and just mindless persons taking shots, because they had nothing of merit to add.

That has unfortunately been the theme around here all too much.

 

[Master Yoda]

Economics would suggest that this is a trend with company's that grow very large rather quickly. The United States government is a good example althought there's other motives in that case such as the lack of incentive to be productive. Contracts with company's and vendors also bring this problem as it limits competition allowing in this case the paint supplier to charge whatever because Disney will buy it regardless. Yet they cut costs on napkins? They really need to go through all these things with some kind of internal audit. He'll the Reedy creek arrangement should lower project costs. Stepping away from the table for a few minutes can often allow somebody to make a better decision. Until the Disney IMAGE gets tarnished there's no need for that though...look at all of us....we still go, many of us quite often. And think of all those people myself included who have made Disney a family affair. Also the local competition still is not on the same scale. I enjoy uni a lot and they have made huge inroads but there still two parks with two resorts (rumors aside) disneys scope is one of the factors.

When it comes to the few examples I have heard of (exotic paint, fabric, etc) I think it has more to do with artists and their eccentricities making it to the final project.

 

[NowInc]

Honestly...even if it takes the same time (or a little longer even), I would still take the train instead of driving. Why? A few reasons. Main one being I'd rather not add the mileage to my car. I go a minimum of 5 times a year, and it REALLY adds up. Another reason being that I'm not driving! I can read, watch movies, use the wifi, sleep...whatever...while I travel. Each way after gas and tolls runs me around 30-40 bucks...which also adds up reallllly fast.

For many of us who are local and frequent "day trip" types..the train seems like an attractive alternative (because we all know the greyhound REALLY isnt)

 

[sweetpee_1993]

<snip>
Until the Disney IMAGE gets tarnished there's no need for that though...look at all of us....we still go, many of us quite often. And think of all those people myself included who have made Disney a family affair.
<\snip>

Not all. We haven't dedicated a vacation to WDW in going on 2 years. No plans to in the future. Disney resorts are a mere convenience for DME (husband flies in late the night before our cruises & he doesn't want me on the road to the airport late). That's all. When family or friends bring up WDW to me nowadays I politely tell them "I won't spend my money vacationing there now" with a wink & a smile. End of conversation. So, nope, not making WDW a family affair either.

 

[alphac2005]

Right, (caution: this is from vague memory of things I read a long time ago) but you need to understand the company's motiv here. The FEC was Florida tycoon Henry Flagler's company. Flagler had high ambitions for the company with the dream of bringing the railroad to Key West. His dream was realized but partially caused a flooding diring a huricane where hundreds died in Key West. The generations that inherited the company were less ambitious and the company has been in a state of decline ever since. In recent years a new generation has inherited the company. This generation has the ambition of its founder. They want to bring it back to where it was during the glory days. AAF is part of this newly found ambition and excitement within the company.

Flagler was a true genius of his time. FEC connected the state all the way from JAX to the Keys. The development of Miami was primarily because of his railroad running down the coast to what was swampland (and will be so again sooner rather than later, but that's another story), and cities were built throughout the state because of Flagler. His story is rather remarkable and there was so much more that he wanted to do, but fiscal demise from the Keys railway collapse amongst other things doomed future FEC work after he died. It's exciting to see that there is vision again to get things done.

 

[Victor Kelly]

There's a company planning an elevated monorail maglev people mover that will connect OIA, Florida Mall, the convention center, medical city, and end just outside WDW. The Central Florida Metropolitan Planning Association has approved the project.

Thanks I am up in Maryland and have not been keeping up with what is going on.

 

[fillerup]

There's a company planning an elevated monorail maglev people mover that will connect OIA, Florida Mall, the convention center, medical city, and end just outside WDW. The Central Florida Metropolitan Planning Association has approved the project.

Much amplification is required on this particular proposal.

MetroPlan Orlando has indeed studied this proposal and the staff recommended a highly conditional approval of American Maglev's proposed project. This is barely even a baby step.

Phase One would travel from OIA to OCCC. Phase Two would add medical city, contingent on the success of Phase One. WDW is currently a distant Phase Three.

This plan has neither been formally studied or approved by other involved agencies including - FDOT, OIA Board, Orange County, City of Orlando, or Orlando/Orange Cty Expressway Authority.

A safety study commissioned by FDOT was completed last month and the technology was tentatively deemed safe up to a jaw dropping speed of 17 mph.

There's lots of skepticism about this project due to the fact that the man behind it has failed twice before to get the technology to perform - once at Old Dominion University in Virginia in 2001, and in Volusia county in the mid '90s.

O'Sentinel July 7 - Video Included

 

[lazyboy97o]

All Aboard Florida is not a genuine high speed rail project but higher speed conventional rail.

Thinking that Walt Disney World alone could support a connection to the airport is the same ridiculous fantasy as the people who were saying the same leg would support the Florida High Speed Rail project. Even if Disney did want to utilize the train in moving people between Walt Disney World and Port Canaveral, they already have a bus service going back and forth between the airport.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The last I heard I thought the Tampa/Orlando high speed rail was dead and it was not a private endeavor but government subsidies.

The Tampa/ Orlando rail is dead. This is a different, private project.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

All Aboard Florida is not a genuine high speed rail project but higher speed conventional rail.

Thinking that Walt Disney World alone could support a connection to the airport is the same ridiculous fantasy as the people who were saying the same leg would support the Florida High Speed Rail project. Even if Disney did want to utilize the train in moving people between Walt Disney World and Port Canaveral, they already have a bus service going back and forth between the airport.

I was thinking more of the line going all the way to Tampa as the High speed project had proposed. Then the leg between MCO and WDW (and maybe an additional stop or 2) would be more viable.

Look we don't have any iron hard plans or real facts......yet.......It's all possible, but only time will tell if it will happen

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

That has unfortunately been the theme around here all too much.

I agree, The idea of the forum is to exchange ideas and possibilities!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was thinking more of the line going all the way to Tampa as the High speed project had proposed. Then the leg between MCO and WDW (and maybe an additional stop or 2) would be more viable.

Look we don't have any iron hard plans or real facts......yet.......It's all possible, but only time will tell if it will happen

Tampa to Orlando? That is an awe flu route for high speed rail, especially with te stops the State had proposed. It would save something like 10 minutes over conventional rail. That is not at all worth the massive difference in infrastructure and equipment costs.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Tampa to Orlando? That is an awe flu route for high speed rail, especially with te stops the State had proposed. It would save something like 10 minutes over conventional rail. That is not at all worth the massive difference in infrastructure and equipment costs.

Agreed, they would have to cut back on the stops, that makes the whole Idea unworkable.

However using a little Imagineering here, how about if they continue up the coast and to New Orleans?, then Texas and California?

Its expensive, but a possibility of bring in the passengers. Just spit balling here!

AKK

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agreed, they would have to cut back on the stops, that makes the whole Idea unworkable.

However using a little Imagineering here, how about if they continue up the coast and to New Orleans?, then Texas and California?

Its expensive, but a possibility of bring in the passengers. Just spit balling here!

AKK

I still think Atlanta to Orlando would be a good route for high speed rail. Planes full of people go back and forth between the two every day.

 

[CDavid]

I still think Atlanta to Orlando would be a good route for high speed rail. Planes full of people go back and forth between the two every day.

I completely agree, but right now there isn't even a "conventional" (79 mph) passenger route between Atlanta and Florida, and that would be the logical place to start. Implemented at a (tiny) fraction of the cost of true high-speed rail, this allows patronage and train frequencies to build while infrastructure is gradually upgraded to permit higher speeds.

But try explaining that logic to Congress...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I completely agree, but right now there isn't even a "conventional" (79 mph) passenger route between Atlanta and Florida, and that would be the logical place to start. Implemented at a (tiny) fraction of the cost of true high-speed rail, this allows patronage and train frequencies to build while infrastructure is gradually upgraded to permit higher speeds.

But try explaining that logic to Congress...

Oh I know. It always makes me a bit sad when I consider that "Terminus" now only offers two ways to go for passenger rail travel.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I still think Atlanta to Orlando would be a good route for high speed rail. Planes full of people go back and forth between the two every day.

That would be better, then they could go north or west to NO or wherever!..Good Point!

 

[Mouse Detective]

The Tampa/ Orlando rail is dead. This is a different, private project.

Orlando - Tampa high speed rail was a stupid idea. Tampa is just too close by car to ever have a need for passenger rail service.

Glad you're pointing out that the Orlando - Miami train is a different project. For some reason FEC feels that it can run passenger service on that route at a profit. I think the distance (4 hours by car, 3.5 hours if you speed) is far enough apart that people would use the service. Also key though is that once you get to Miami there would be connections to MetroRail service to get passengers closer to where they're wanting to go. But that's a problem at the Orlando end of the route; OIA. What does a passenger do once he arrives there? Orlando really needs a train link at OIA to SunRail or to the parks.

The Orlando - Miami train will never be able to be used for service to Port Canaveral. The train would make the 90-degree turn at Cocoa but go nowhere near the Port. Getting to the port requires numerous bridges and who is going to pay for that?

Not discussed at all is one of the main reasons for this train. It's to get FEC tracks from the coast into Orlando. The only story we hear is of the passenger trains but rest assured that when there's no passenger train on that track between Cocoa and Orlando, freight trains will be using it. That's what makes the project profitable. But this is not a bad thing for Orlando. Other than local railroad Florida Central RR, CSX has a monopoly on rail service to Orlando. Competition will bring down freight prices.

Orlando - Atlanta can't support high speed rail service. There are not enough passengers traveling between the two cities and there are very, very few towns of any size between the two to add passengers to the count. The reason there are so many passengers on planes flying between the two is because 90% are connecting to someplace besides Atlanta. That's not an option with a train.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Orlando - Tampa high speed rail was a stupid idea. Tampa is just too close by car to ever have a need for passenger rail service.

Glad you're pointing out that the Orlando - Miami train is a different project. For some reason FEC feels that it can run passenger service on that route at a profit. I think the distance (4 hours by car, 3.5 hours if you speed) is far enough apart that people would use the service. Also key though is that once you get to Miami there would be connections to MetroRail service to get passengers closer to where they're wanting to go. But that's a problem at the Orlando end of the route; OIA. What does a passenger do once he arrives there? Orlando really needs a train link at OIA to SunRail or to the parks.

The Orlando - Miami train will never be able to be used for service to Port Canaveral. The train would make the 90-degree turn at Cocoa but go nowhere near the Port. Getting to the port requires numerous bridges and who is going to pay for that?

Not discussed at all is one of the main reasons for this train. It's to get FEC tracks from the coast into Orlando. The only story we hear is of the passenger trains but rest assured that when there's no passenger train on that track between Cocoa and Orlando, freight trains will be using it. That's what makes the project profitable. But this is not a bad thing for Orlando. Other than local railroad Florida Central RR, CSX has a monopoly on rail service to Orlando. Competition will bring down freight prices.

Orlando - Atlanta can't support high speed rail service. There are not enough passengers traveling between the two cities and there are very, very few towns of any size between the two to add passengers to the count. The reason there are so many passengers on planes flying between the two is because 90% are connecting to someplace besides Atlanta. That's not an option with a train.

I think there is a bigger picture here.

1. Yes Orlando to Tampa by itself is not likely to draw enough passengers, Tampa on to NO or the west would be a different story. That may be a profitable line. People are getting tired of higher an higher gas and air fares, with tons of add on costs.

2. All the cites, including MCO and PC could easily have rail trams and short connections to other local destinations. The port had bridges that could support light rail trams. Who says

3. Sure Atlanta can support high speed,. First off who says the line has to end at Atlanta?, the line could go north to NY or Chicago, or west. This would bring many, many more passengers. High speed works in other countries, no reason if thought out and designed properly, it would not work here!

As I mentioned earlier, people are getting more and more tired of the gas prices and the air fares going though the roof!

Time will tell if any of this happens and works out.

AKK