Harry Potter Regrets

[Club34]

I don't have children and with my advancing age the disney rides are about my speed so I'm not looking for bigger/faster thrills. For those who are or who have kids that help sway the family vote, is that the turn-off for going to disney? They want bigger and more exciting? I'm too biased to judge it. The one kid I spoke to on this issue said he wanted more thrill rides and a "cooler" theme. He didnt dislike disney but felt it was too "baby" for him.

If so, I will again propose my 5th park idea...Disney World X. X for extreme of course. Perhaps a modest 3 area park for starters.

Area 1- Villians (Some sort of iconic evil mountain as the centerpiece)

Area 2- Marvel (yes, this park would have cross branding. time to get over it.)

Area 3- ESPN (sports and xgames stuff- think of a skateboard show perhaps).

All areas would have rides that would be of the thrill type overall. Stuff not found in the other parks and a direct response to the other area resorts. Puts Disney right back on top as the total package. And by thrill, I mean Cedar Point type thrills. The little mermaid has left the building.

Potter is what it is. Disney can't turn back time now. But it did buy marvel. It has other relationships (why is there no star wars land?!!) to exploit to put into its resorts and make for great theming. The fact is, disney backed themselves into a corner here. they will have to think and act outside of their own box to solve the issue as it pertains to the parks. Gimmicks will only go so far. People say that DHS and AK are not done. Well they have to complete those parks in a manner that will change the game with potter if they arent going to a 5th gate to really lay the smack down IMO.

 

[menamechris]

As said before, it's the lost revenue that is causing Disney a headache. Lost from merchandise, food and beverage, and tickets. Where guests used to buy, say, a five day hopper, now they may get a three day in order to spend those other two days at Uni.
It may not sound like much, but trust me, it adds up to a huge headache for the suits.

Also, it isn't just Potter they are fighting. As said earlier, they are losing the PR battle, as well. Disney is, like it or not, stuck with an image problem. They aren't the "cool" destination at this point. They are gonna have to confront their "kiddie" image at some point.

So..the question is - At what point do they actually do something? Who is really nervous here? People who can't greenlight projects or actually push a project that would create buzz and excitement? Let's be honest - no one is that terribly excited about the new Fantasyland - in fact - I would guess that the average Disney guest/consumer is pretty unaware. There doesn't even seem to be a strong marketing promotion for it here in Central Florida. And with no new project on the horizon (with the exception of the possible Avatarland which will clearly be too little, too late), Disney can bite their nails all they want, but they have done virtually nothing to change what is happening here...

 

[BringMeTheHoriz]

I don't have children and with my advancing age the disney rides are about my speed so I'm not looking for bigger/faster thrills. For those who are or who have kids that help sway the family vote, is that the turn-off for going to disney? They want bigger and more exciting? I'm too biased to judge it. The one kid I spoke to on this issue said he wanted more thrill rides and a "cooler" theme. He didnt dislike disney but felt it was too "baby" for him.

If so, I will again propose my 5th park idea...Disney World X. X for extreme of course. Perhaps a modest 3 area park for starters.

Area 1- Villians (Some sort of iconic evil mountain as the centerpiece)

Area 2- Marvel (yes, this park would have cross branding. time to get over it.)

Area 3- ESPN (sports and xgames stuff- think of a skateboard show perhaps).

All areas would have rides that would be of the thrill type overall. Stuff not found in the other parks and a direct response to the other area resorts. Puts Disney right back on top as the total package. And by thrill, I mean Cedar Point type thrills. The little mermaid has left the building.

Potter is what it is. Disney can't turn back time now. But it did buy marvel. It has other relationships (why is there no star wars land?!!) to exploit to put into its resorts and make for great theming. The fact is, disney backed themselves into a corner here. they will have to think and act outside of their own box to solve the issue as it pertains to the parks. Gimmicks will only go so far. People say that DHS and AK are not done. Well they have to complete those parks in a manner that will change the game with potter if they arent going to a 5th gate to really lay the smack down IMO.

Cedar Point like rides? Alright count me in. I'll help build the place if necessary. That's one thing I miss about living up north: being 5 hours from Cedar Point. Always made for a nice weekend getaway. Busch Gardens, Disney, Sea World, and Universal are nice in their own ways, but I miss the big thrills Cedar Point has to offer.

 

[Prototype82]

Right. They cannot compete with WWoHP by throwing out card games and by doubling the number of Dumbo spinners at MK. There needs to be more, and at the same quality level they have shown in the past. I don't know if Avatar is the answer.

There's no denying Avatar was huge. People couldn't get enough of that world. Universal was doing something big and bold when they built the Wizarding World. Avatar is Disney's opportunity to do just that. It's a project that's going to require them to do outside-the-box engineering like Potter did. Is it a gamble? Of course, but why sit and wait. They know they need to take a leap.

 

[Rivers Rowe]

The point continues to be missed.
Forget comparing total numbers between Disney and Universal. It's apples and oranges, like comparing GM to Porsche.

As said before, it's the lost revenue that is causing Disney a headache. Lost from merchandise, food and beverage, and tickets. Where guests used to buy, say, a five day hopper, now they may get a three day in order to spend those other two days at Uni.
It may not sound like much, but trust me, it adds up to a huge headache for the suits.

This whole thing is happening because Uni built a great land with a cutting-edge ride, all based on the most popular franchise of this century. Disney had a chance to do it, and reap all the benefits, but they passed. Regret it? You bet they do. As I said before, its the whole reason they got into the Avatar business.

Also, it isn't just Potter they are fighting. As said earlier, they are losing the PR battle, as well. Disney is, like it or not, stuck with an image problem. They aren't the "cool" destination at this point. They are gonna have to confront their "kiddie" image at some point.

This post is classic doom and gloom. What lost revenue? Reading Disney's quarterly reports they are up in every category related to the theme parks. From what I can see, they don't need Potter. As for Disney's "kiddie" image, that sediment is ones own choosing, to say it speaks for a entire company is silly.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

This post is classic doom and gloom. What lost revenue? Reading Disney's quarterly reports they are up in every category related to the theme parks. From what I can see, they don't need Potter. As for Disney's "kiddie" image, that sediment is ones own choosing, to say it speaks for a entire company is silly.

You would be well advised to listen to Lee and not assume that he's just a bitter doom and gloomer looking to stir up trouble for kicks. Most people here can assure you he knows what he's talking about. I know you're new here and might not realize who is who here yet, but FYI Lee is one of several well respected and universally acknowledged members on these forums who have proven reliable connections within the Disney company. And numerous times Lee has shared some of his information with the forum that wasn't intended for the public (or reveals something well ahead of time from when it eventually surfaces officially). I'm not an ancient member, but i've been here long enough to attest that Lee knows what he's talking about. Good advice- attacking him is not the best way to start off here (not just in regards to how he will respond, but how most others will).

What you're seeing in the quarterly reports isn't always indicative of what's really happening internally. Don't judge a book by it's cover, there are usually underlying aspects that the general public doesn't see that the suits are worried about. Corporations usually won't publicly admit they're hurting financially or are worried about competition, it will further hinder their image and profits.

 

[xdan0920]

This post is classic doom and gloom. What lost revenue? Reading Disney's quarterly reports they are up in every category related to the theme parks. From what I can see, they don't need Potter. As for Disney's "kiddie" image, that sediment is ones own choosing, to say it speaks for a entire company is silly.

Yea, seriously. That dirt is one person's own choosing. It is very silly to say dirt speaks for the entire company. Dirt can not even speak at all..................................can it? :zipit:

 

[draybook]

If you think Disney isn't targeting the kids then you must not be watching the same commercials that I'm seeing, or maybe you didn't pay attention to the FL expansion?

 

[jmb2676]

If you think Disney isn't targeting the kids then you must not be watching the same commercials that I'm seeing, or maybe you didn't pay attention to the FL expansion?

All of the commercials running here are of 4 year old kids hugging Cinderella. From just the commercials you wouldn't even know that there are 4 parks, water parks, etc...

 

[Lee]

First, thanks for the kind words Merlin.:wave:

As for the rest:
I don't understand how stating facts and being objective qualifies as "doom and gloom". It ain't.

As for Disney's park profits being up, yes they appear to be slightly higher. This is the result of Disneyland having an increase and WDW being down a bit. WDW would be down more were it not for some fairly heavy discounting. This hurts, especially when double-digit growth is their goal.

Nobody is saying that WDW is failing financially, or is in any danger of losing its position as top dog in Orlando. Neither will ever happen.

What is happening is that WDW has hit a plateau, financially, image wise and creatively. It is frustrating for (some) fans to see, especially at a time where Uni is going through such a renaissance, and really coming into its own.

I'm not "hating" on Disney, I could never do that. I'm just telling it like is, take it or leave it.

 

[devoy1701]

This post is classic doom and gloom. What lost revenue? Reading Disney's quarterly reports they are up in every category related to the theme parks. From what I can see, they don't need Potter. As for Disney's "kiddie" image, that sediment is ones own choosing, to say it speaks for a entire company is silly.

did you actually read into the report or just read the summary?

for the past 18-24 months, the only reason the numbers have been going up is because of increased ticket and room rates and decreased operating expenses. It says that right in the annual report...that margins are because of those points, and that discretionary spending per guest, as well as attendance and room occupancy rate has overall been down.

You are right about Disney's "kiddie" image being their own fault and that it is companywide. But that happened during the 90s and 2000s and is indeed something that they need to grow out of... WDW especially.

 

[devoy1701]

All of the commercials running here are of 4 year old kids hugging Cinderella. From just the commercials you wouldn't even know that there are 4 parks, water parks, etc...

ignore the disneyland imagery in the commercials too btw...

 

[jmb2676]

ignore the disneyland imagery in the commercials too btw...

I have tried to forget that. Thanks for the reminder

 

[Lee]

for the past 18-24 months, the only reason the numbers have been going up is because of increased ticket and room rates and decreased operating expenses. It says that right in the annual report...that margins are because of those points, and that discretionary spending per guest, as well as attendance and room occupancy rate has overall been down.

This.
It's kind of smoke and mirrors. Cut budgets, raise prices and make it look like business is up when it isn't.
As I said, I'm told Disneyland was up a tiny bit, while WDW was down. Would have been further down were it not for the above, combined with continued discounting to lure guests in. Per-guest spending is way down, especially on merch.

 

[menamechris]

Are they actually projecting that numbers will be up with the Fantasyland expansion? I think it will hold the numbers steady at WDW, but not increase them. I am guessing people will check it out when they are in town for Harry Potter (or ITS expansion)...

 

[Lee]

Are they actually projecting that numbers will be up with the Fantasyland expansion? I think it will hold the numbers steady at WDW, but not increase them. I am guessing people will check it out when they are in town for Harry Potter (or ITS expansion)...

Not really.
From the beginning, the expansion was more about increasing park capacity than about boosting the number of turnstile clicks.
Little Mermaid will certainly give them something to advertise, and the Mine Train will help get some curious guests through the gates (much more so than the M&Gs would have).

But, expanding FL using already existing characters and not including any new E-Ticket experiences, is not expected to be a major attendance booster. In a very real sense, they are preaching to the choir and providing some elbow room in the over-stressed MK. Not sure where the return on investment will be with the FLE...

 

[xdan0920]

Not really.
From the beginning, the expansion was more about increasing park capacity than about boosting the number of turnstile clicks.
Little Mermaid will certainly give them something to advertise, and the Mine Train will help get some curious guests through the gates (much more so than the M&Gs would have).

But, expanding FL using already existing characters and not including any new E-Ticket experiences, is not expected to be a major attendance booster. In a very real sense, they are preaching to the choir and providing some elbow room in the over-stressed MK. Not sure where the return on investment will be with the FLE...

Which is ok by me. I think Disney has put a little too much focus on ROI recently. Mostly in how they cut things back and justify it.

Sometimes the ROI is not tangible. The park will feel less crowded, it will feel new and fresh. It will feel bigger. These are all things that don't line Disney's pockets in the short term, but in the long run it keeps people coming back. A happy guest is a repeat guest.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Lee is making alot os sense, and seems to have some information that the rest of us aren't privy to. It raises many questions, the most obvious of which is why Disney didn't get Potter in the first place. Does anyone actually know? And is Disney regretting it? And would the current Disney Administration make the same "mistake"?

 

[marni1971]

This post is classic doom and gloom...... As for Disney's "kiddie" image, that sediment is ones own choosing, to say it speaks for a entire company is silly.

Doom and gloom? Nope. Reality check? Yep. Painful as it may for some to admit it.

Disney don't have a through and through kiddie image. WDW does though. Far more than Disneyland and DLP. Possibly Tokyo too but I admit I don't have first hand experience of TDL. Yet.

So..the question is - At what point do they actually do something? Who is really nervous here?

Quite a few suits. Not all of them but it's increasing. At all levels.

 

[devoy1701]

Doom and gloom? Nope. Reality check? Yep. Painful as it may for some to admit it.

Disney don't have a through and through kiddie image. WDW does though. Far more than Disneyland and DLP. Possibly Tokyo too but I admit I don't have first hand experience of TDL. Yet.


Quite a few suits. Not all of them but it's increasing. At all levels.

I don't know Martin...I think that the "kiddie" image might be company wide and I think it has to do with the revitalization of Disney Animation in the early 90s with Eisner. Maybe it's just me, but Disney Animation of the 90s seems more "kiddie" to me than Disney Animation of the 30s-50s. And it seems like today's focus for the company is more Tween than anything. But you're definitely spot on about the problem being amplified and promoted at WDW.